Regreasing wheel bearings on a new Airstream

[KeithC]

Dang,

Did I just read that 2airishuman and Andy agree and are unified on a wheel bearing maintenance issue, kinda, sorta.

I have learned from both and appreciate their views.

[scottanlily]

i would concur that regular maintenence of your trailer bearings is crucial to bearing life . Ive myself done hundreds of bearing repacks on cars trucks and trailers . when you pull the front rotors of a car for instance,you will see the bearing rollers have little grease to speak of .Ive rotated many rotor or drums
on vehical only to note the audible sound and fast spinning of the assembly
denoting no grease or very little at best . The greasing process fills the bearing cage with grease (packing) as the bearing heats up in use the grease then flows to the loade surfaces of the race and rollers to provide lubrication.
The weight of a vehical or trailer will immediatly try to expell the grease away from the roller to race contact surfaces ,grease will not stay in the bearing cage indefinately ,so regular packing is needed .grease can get sloppy and
runny ,usually from cross mixing greases ,the (soap) as its called,part of the base stock of grease is not interchangable unless the same type of grease is used ,the soaps cause the grease to become unstable it breaks down becoming runny and not able to provide the protection as needed .you can see this when your wheel hubs have slobbered grease out and around the wheel surfaces .Sealed bearings are great ,packed and sealed for long life
easily over 100 000 miles .as far as industrial bearings are concerned ,sealed
ball bearings as most all are ,do not require greasing do to the side seals that
retain the lubricant ,no surprise there ,yet unsealed will need greasing .These types of bearings are used in automotive and truck applications all the time .
travel trailers of course have limited use and do not need very frequent bearing service .If you perform regular service ,you know what you have .
ive replaced many unserviced trailer bearings ,no grease ,overheated
and pitting of the races ,or flaking on the hard chrome rollers is common as well ,see it in Timkin type roller bearings all the time ,see it with servicable vehical bearings every day ,although with sealed unit bearings ,this is not
as common as it once was . So ,do yourself a favor ,and perform regular maintenence as required and take care of your trailer ,car or truck .

Scott of scottanlily

[Airstreamer67]

This discussion is similar to the old standard: change your engine oil every 3000 miles. Even though modern lubricants allow longer change intervals nowadays, many vendors still advocate the frequent change. You pays your money and takes your choice.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Airstreamer67

This discussion is similar to the old standard: change your engine oil every 3000 miles. Even though modern lubricants allow longer change intervals nowadays, many vendors still advocate the frequent change. You pays your money and takes your choice.

The last new car I bought had a recommended oil change interval of 6,000 miles. The oil change stickers on the windshield the dealer put on reflected that, until the day the factory warranty ran out, then the stickers mysteriously started showing 3,000 mile intervals.
But, we digress...

[dwightdi]

Here are some links to websites which cover the topic from the manufacturers of the bearings and club members with experience.

Timken - Products - Bearings - Volume One Issue 5

http://www.timken.com/products/beari...Fs/Vol6No3.pdf

Maintaining your RV- Wheel Bearing Maintenance

http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/1080235/f/...-07_72_res.pdf


Most of the bearing failures I have seen are the result of error by whoever serviced the bearings. Some of the errors include: Wrong, incompatible grease mixed with previous grease, overtightening the bearings, contamenting the grease with hard dirt, damaging the seals (so grease gets out wrecking the brake pads or shoes and dirt gets in)

Most of the RV shops around our area charge about $100 per technician hour but pay their techs about $30/ hour. Car shops charge about the same.

[Action]

To run a shop at a profit, and a profit is needed to stay in biz next month, the tech will get 1/3 of the labor rate. The remaining goes to pay for the building, equipment, special tools, maintenance, advertising, labor to run the shop, and misc. The last thing that shows up is profit.

And it is true, the majority of wheel bearing failures is due to the last service on those bearings. That is another reason the car manufactures went to sealed wheel bearings. And who says they built cars for planned obselence.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[ebair]

I just completed servicing the running gear on my triple axle with 28000 miles on it (it has a wheel odometer). This is in anticipation of a 6000 mile trip later this summer.
The PO said it was 'checked' just prior to our purchase at 10K, 2 years ago.
The tires were marked 1401 and showing some wear so I figured it was a good time to replace them, with Maxxis 8008s Load range D
When I pulled the wheels I found lubricant contamination of the brakes and magnets on three wheels (due to wheel seal failure) Cleaned up the brakes, and the magnets, relubed in the right places.
After cleaning the drums and bearings, inspection of the bearings found discoloration of the rollers on 3 of the outer bearings corresponding with the axles with seal failure, several rollers on one of these bearings had evidence of surface failure, pitting and loss of finish in some areas. (the bearings were of Chinese origin, for crying out loud)
Decided to replace all the bearings and races and seals, probably overkill but it made me feel more secure (used all Timkin for replacements).
Put everything back togeather and added a set of Centramatics for good measure.

The seals that leaked looked orignal (there were no markings on them) It looked like the red grease the bearings were packed with, liquified and migrated out, dripping on the magnets and out the small end into the hub covers (all the covers had at least some red oil in them).

What I learned;

IMHO Your money ahead to follow the advice and check the running gear each year or 10k, and even though it cost me a few hundred in parts to replace the bearings, if I hadn't checked, there was very likely an expensive and inconvienent failure looming. Next year it should only cost the price of 6 oil seals a tube of grease and my time.

To qualify this a little I have a automotive maintenance background, and, I also thought 'who checks that stuff at 10k? it ought to be fine for 40k. oops, Glad I followed the advice of those who are willing to share the info and their experience.

Thanks forum folk and fellow 'streamers!

[Airstream87]

Originally Posted by nangoff

I have no idea what a running gear 10,000 mile checkput costs nor what the process entails. I do know that for xxx,xxx trailers on the road with annual checkouts based on 10k or 1 year, servicing is a lot of money for the shops that do this.

Many thanks to all of your inputs.... I have spent 35 years in the business of applying naked, shielded, double shielded, sealed, sleeve, roller, spherical, tapered, etc, and pillow block bearings in the industrial world in every conceiveable atmosphere and application. True bearing health rests solely on how much heat the bearing is generating under load. As I have said earlier I check my wheels / bearings with a Cen-tech, #91778, non-contact laser thermometer. This is an extremely important, inexpensive product that any RVer should have on his person when traveling, regardless of when you had your bearings redone. Bearings do not fail catastrophically, if they do I've never heard of it, at least not on the industrial application world; however they will they let you know they are in trouble, they make a lot of noise and run hot.

Modern lubricants last a long, long time and sometimes the act of servicing the bearings the lubricant is in leads the bearings to a premature failure.

I won't go so far as saying some of the information I have received is self serving, but I do invite Andy to give me a private e-mail of the cost of his services and the nice description he gave of his process. Thanks to all, Gerry

Thanks for the Thermo suggestion, I got one at Harbor Freight for $29.00 and used it last week on trip to and from AZ after repacking bearings. Keep track of temps real well and no dirty fingers from touching wheels.

[Wingeezer]

Interesting thread. I have one of the infra red thermometers and used it on an extended RV trip last year (non-AS at that time). Very handy.

I was surprised how closely the temperature of all four wheels read. Very little above ambient, and all within a couple of degrees of each other. I tended to do a quick check at each rest/fuel stop. Probably overkill! I will use it with our new (to us) AS.

I read Andy's comments with interest, and probably should take them to heart. Even as a retired Mech Eng., I tend to be a little lax in the preventative mtce dept!

I do believe however that I will be doing my own repacks in future - I have done them before at times on various trailers.

Reason? bad experiences with RV dealers. I don't know how common this is in the industry, but I feel that I have been "taken" once for sure, and now maybe twice.

Several years ago, I bought a recent model used Award 27ft trailer from an RV dealer. I paid a considerable "dealer prep" price. At teh time, I specifically asked, and was assured that this encluded a wheel bearing inspection and repack, so we pulled the trailere maybe 7,000 miles that season.

A year later, I pulled the wheels myself and was horrified to find that in all four hubs, the grease was hard and caked, and the roller bearings had started to deteriorate, spalling off bits of surface metal.

At that point, the trailer was about five years old, and I doubt very much that the bearings had EVER been serviced since new.

I thanked my stars that I found the problem in time, and had to change out all the bearings. I seriously doubt we would have completed one other long trip without a potentially costly failure on the road with all the associated cost & inconvenience.

I wrote a "polite" letter to the dealer several hundred miles away to advise him of my findings - thinking he would want to know. He never even had the courtesy to reply - I wasn't even asking for any recompense.

More recently, when we bought our used Airstream this September, I paid the
AS dealer $300 over and above the purchase price all other related charges, specifically to inspect the bearings/brakes and repack the bearings so that I could be confident all would be well for an extended trip we have planned for this winter.

I have no indication that they did not do the work, but I have nagging doubts!

When I looked at the detailed bill, I saw no itemized charge for new grease seals. I questioned this, and was told all was fine and no new seals were needed.

I guess I'm too polite or too much of a sucker!

In hindsight, I should have taken them to task on this. If they did manage to pop the seals out without damaging them (I never have much luck doing that with grease seals!) I still think that good practice would dictate that they should have replaced them with new seals in any event. Am I wrong?

I won't likely be able to check things myself before we head south this winter, but I have written AS to see if they can sell me a set of 4 seals and one spare inner/outer bearing set to carry on our trip as a precaution!

I will certainly pull the wheels myself next spring - or maybe even when we are set up in an RV park in th southern US this winter, although I guess that is frowned upon!


Brian.

[AirsDream]

You are right that modern lubricants last a long time. But, they do wear out and oxidize over time. Moreover, seals tend to wear out faster than the grease itself - especially on non-sealed bearings and that can rapidly lead to contamination-related wear and ultimate failure. Timken itself says that ~ 50% of bearing failures are due to "inadequate" lubrication, which includes worn-out lubricants and contaminated lubricants.

So, I personally favor regular inspection / repacking as an "insurance" factor. It's cheap compared to the value of my trailer and my time. And that way I can do any necessary replacement where and when I want, rather than alongside a road. I did that sort of roadside replacement once, and that was once too often.

BTW, while an infrared thermometer is a useful tool, there are a lot of confounding factors, such as brake use, differential sun load, tire heat, water splash cooling, etc. that can lead to erroneous conclusions. And while they almost certainly will tell you, despite the confounding factors, of a bearing that is in the final stages of failure, I just don't want to wait until then to deal with a developing problem.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Modern lubes do indeed last a long time.

The problem with repacking frequency, is that there is more to consider than just miles.

Unused or seldom used Airstreams, do indeed pick up moisture in the grease cavity of the hub. It can set there, for some owners, for a long time.

Only one problem with the lack of use.

That water can and does attack the bearings to the extent of causing rust.

Repacking at least once a year, regardless of how few miles, pays many dividends, by removing that water from the bearings.

Ignoring that simple PM, is asking for bearing failures.

Most bearing failures, are the result of improper, or lack of simple care, on the part of the owner.

Andy

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by scottanlily

grease can get sloppy and runny ,usually from cross mixing greases ,the (soap) as its called,part of the base stock of grease is not interchangable unless the same type of grease is used ,the soaps cause the grease to become unstable it breaks down becoming runny and not able to provide the protection as needed .you can see this when your wheel hubs have slobbered grease out and around the wheel surfaces.

Scott,

That's excellent information. I have E-Z Lube hubs on my trailer, and I when I pumped fresh grease in, I made the mistake of not expelling last year's grease completely. (I did have one brake drum off because I couldn't find the brake adjuster starwheel - it was installed backwards, only took a minute to fix - and saw that the brakes had been replaced along with the axles in 2006, so I wasn't concerned about the linings for this year.) But as you would have predicted, I have grease leaking out from around the baby moon hubcaps, and now I know why. Thanks!

At least the brakes worked a lot better when I got them adjusted properly. Next year I will need to do the full service.

[PINKBIKE]

Running gear, is the tire, wheel, hub and drum assembly.

Namely, everything that turns when the trailer is in motion. So how does one get all this on a machine to rotate?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Rollerboy

Running gear, is the tire, wheel, hub and drum assembly.

Namely, everything that turns when the trailer is in motion. So how does one get all this on a machine to rotate?

Check out the balancing method that we use, that's in our web site.

Andy

[mbmbstreamer]

When I had my 06 Safari repacked last, the parts manager at the dealership asked me if I'd seen the difference between the grease seals Airstream has them use and those they install on SOBs? He pulled out a heavy disk and compared it to a lightweight item that he said didn't cost much to stock and often is bent on installation. For those who save a few $ on seals, I would consider spending a few more.

We had a bearing failure on our previous trailer (an SOB) that was still in the axle warranty period. We had it serviced every 10,000 by the dealer and it was not due when it failed. The cost to replace was over $800 (couldn't replace the spindle and backing plate separately on those). It was not possible to tell why it failed...only the brake pads and drum were holding the wheel on.

The job was covered by the warranty. The Tech said most failures are due to seal failure.

Matt

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer

When I had my 06 Safari repacked last, the parts manager at the dealership asked me if I'd seen the difference between the grease seals Airstream has them use and those they install on SOBs? He pulled out a heavy disk and compared it to a lightweight item that he said didn't cost much to stock and often is bent on installation. For those who save a few $ on seals, I would consider spending a few more.

We had a bearing failure on our previous trailer (an SOB) that was still in the axle warranty period. We had it serviced every 10,000 by the dealer and it was not due when it failed. The cost to replace was over $800 (couldn't replace the spindle and backing plate separately on those). It was not possible to tell why it failed...only the brake pads and drum were holding the wheel on.

The job was covered by the warranty. The Tech said most failures are due to seal failure.

Matt

When doing a "major brake" job, which includes a bearing pack, always replace the grease seals.

There are a number of cheap grease seals out there, and then there is the kind that Airstream uses, that are far superior, hands down.

Does the Airstream grease seal cost more? You bet it does, but again, the cheapo's often fail, and I have never heard of the original Airstream factory seal failing.

As with cheapo anything, you get what you pay for, and take the risks and/or suffer the consequences, at least with respect to Airstreaming.

Andy

[RDM16CCD]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

There are a number of cheap grease seals out there, and then there is the kind that Airstream uses, that are far superior, hands down.

Andy

Andy
I appreciate your advice - if I make an error on maintenance intervals, I want it to be on the safe side! The cost of the maintenance is a fair trade against a road-side break down.

I like to do this kind of maintenance myself - part of my Airstream hobby, plus the Airstream dealer is an hour away. Is there a way to know the part number for the seals, and what brand of seal to buy - so I get my hands on the 'good' seals? I hate to have to take everything apart before I even know the parts I need to buy, which is what the dealer said I needed to do (that is, they have no way of knowing the parts on my trailer based on year/model/serial number info - at least that's what I was told). And I don't think the dealer necessarily buys 'Airstream' seals - probably just gets whatever the local parts suppliers have on hand.

Also - I think this is the year I'm finally going to upgrade the axle assembly (plus wheels and tires) on my 05 16' CCD for greater load capacity. So I'll be in touch to see if we can get together about 'spring break' time.

Thanks again
Bob

[mbmbstreamer]

If you upgrade the axle assembly, don't overdo it. Airstream had an issue with their supplier a few years ago. Seems the axles were TOO firm (heavy duty) and the tightly sprung axle beat the trailers to death. Caused them to use Dexters for a few years.

Too much capacity is not better.

Matt

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer

If you upgrade the axle assembly, don't overdo it. Airstream had an issue with their supplier a few years ago. Seems the axles were TOO firm (heavy duty) and the tightly sprung axle beat the trailers to death. Caused them to use Dexters for a few years.

Too much capacity is not better.

Matt

ONLY AIRSTREAM specs the axle ratings, not any axle manufacturer, ever.

Airstream switched to Dexter, because of a Corporate to Corporate problem, and disagreement, never as you have suggested.

The people at Airstream and Henschen go to lunch together, often. But they are not the Corporate.

The problem was a grease/warranty issue, not axle ratings.

For your information, Airstream has also spec out axles, that were under rated for the intended job, that has caused some failures.

We have all the specs on the original axle ratings, and encourage upgrading some of the time.

On occassion, we have refused an upgrade that we felt was excessive, unless that owner was willing to send us a "hold harmless agreement."

It's way to easy today, to fall into a lawsuit trap.

Hope this clarifys the issue.

Andy

[Minnie's Mate]

What about the grease seal? I am going to have my bearings greased in a couple of weeks before heading down to the Florida State Rally. I will have the work done at a generic utility trailer dealer who has performed work for me in the past. I have no idea what seal they use or if I can specify what they use. They have done good work and seem to know their stuff, but they are not an Airstream service shop...even though the owner is an Airstream owner.