Nevr-Lube bearing help, please

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by LNBright

Ooooo..... the parts I could ruin w/ such.... turning a maintenance job into a large-scale rebuild....

Hey, a horrible thought of having to get new axles with a 3" lift...........

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Hi Rich...

Feel like getting another tool?[emoji3061]

Bob
[emoji631]

Ok,.Robert, you're on the hook here. I ordered the hydraulic puller. Soaking, heating and beating is getting nowhere.

[MMCMRET]

Staying Tuned. Thanks for sharing the tool links.

[DaveP]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Hey, a horrible thought of having to get new axles with a 3" lift...........

Yea baby!

[dznf0g]

So, just a bit of background, as I kind of jumped into this thread in the heat of the battle. (btw, I turned 61 today and got a really good reminder that this kind of grunt work is for the young!)

So I was doing my normal "wiggle the tire" bearing end play check. Three had no detectable end play. Curb front ahd quite a bit of wiggle, or rock. I'd guess .020" at the bearing. It still rotated smoothly, but on its way out.

This hub showed quite a bit of evidence of water intrusion. I determined it hadn't come in through the metal hub cap, but I believe through the grease seal on the back side. Water then followed the spindle and corroded the inner face of the large washer under the friction nut.

The other 3 hubs look spic and span. All have expelled a small quantity of grease. Is that normal for these Timken bearings?

They have 58K miles on them

[dznf0g]

Does anyone have the part# for the grease seals for 6K disc brake hub. I can't seem to locate it.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Hi Rich...

In the auto world my experience told me that a "sealed" bearing that was leaking was on it's way out.

If you are really planing a 3" lift, at 17yrs old an axle upgrade may be worth considering.
Fix the one thats loose, take a vacation to JC and 'git 'er done.

Bob
🇺🇸

'Cloudsplitter' at JC last year...I also am beyond the effort.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Hi Rich...

In the auto world my experience told me that a "sealed" bearing that was leaking was on it's way out.

If you are really planing a 3" lift, at 17yrs old an axle upgrade may be worth considering.
Fix the one thats loose, take a vacation to JC and 'git 'er done.

Bob
[emoji631]

'Cloudsplitter' at JC last year...I also am beyond the effort.

Actually, I found a couple of documents on the dexter site which say a small amount of grease leakage is normal, and to be expected.
I wasn't talking about lifting these axles. If I wind up trashing the spindle I'd get the new axles built with lift.

[GCinSC2]

Rich,

If you were nearby, I'd drive over and see if this IDEA allows the hub to be removed.

We'd preform a rollerectomy.

A lot of this is a might work idea but nope, haven't tried it.

Remove the bearings stamped dust shield. Drill a small hole or very sharp punch and put a hole in it. Thread a small screw in and vise grips and yank it out.

Dremel time. This might be the tricky time. Using a small diameter grinding stone maybe 3/16" or so, small ones. Grind a notch in the shoulder of the cone between two rollers. The notch must be big enough to extract a roller. Only one notch needed.

Cut the cage that holds a roller, bend the cage out of the way of the roller.

Rotate hub to position exposed roller centered in notch.

Use a hook or needle nose to pull the roller out.

Rotate to next roller, cut cage, extract and repeat for all rollers.

Now the only thing holding the hub on is the opposite side dust seal/shield.

Use puller if necessary and pull hub off.

Small celebration.

Now both of the remaining cup races are fully exposed. Clean old grease, and use heat to expand or grind down with small disc grinder to weaken the race and hopefully pop it off w/o damaging spindle.

Did you remember seeing my comment that I haven't tried this?

And for us Sr. Old Dudes how about R&R the valves on one of these rigs. That was a real moment for older bones. And I just completed a full 7 way cable R&R again ugh removing the old nasty stiff cable.

Can't wait for todays installments for as the hub don't move.

Gary

[DaveP]

Gary,

That sounds like instructions for a guaranteed, full axle replacement.

Dave

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Actually, I found a couple of documents on the dexter site which say a small amount of grease leakage is normal, and to be expected.
I wasn't talking about lifting these axles. If I wind up trashing the spindle I'd get the new axles built with lift.

Well, shouldn't it then be called a Semi-Sealed bearing?
I don't understand a waterproof bearing that isn't.

POI..."Cloudsplitter", at 17...The rubber in the curb-side front axle pooped the bed, went with higher rated 4k axles, no lift, standard bearings and auto adjust brakes.

The change did seem to make difference, but that may just have been the result of the $3.2k having just been spent.
Actually,I did gain an inch or so clearance, and no more inside edge tire ware on that tire.

Bob
🇺🇸

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Well, shouldn't it then be called a Semi-Sealed bearing?
I don't understand a waterproof bearing that isn't.

POI..."Cloudsplitter", at 17...The rubber in the curb-side front axle pooped the bed, went with higher rated 4k axles, no lift, standard bearings and auto adjust brakes.

The change did seem to make difference, but that may just have been the result of the $3.2k having just been spent.
Actually,I did gain an inch or so clearance, and no more inside edge tire ware on that tire.

Bob
🇺🇸

Yeah, apparently the whole bearing cavity is only semi-sealed. I have learned there is no rear seal. No wonder water can find its way into the spindle area. My axles are still healthy, so I really hope this works out. I'll update after the hydraulic puller gets here in a few days.

[GCinSC2]

This is a same size bearing as the Timken I don't know who made it I picked it up years ago. Notice this one is sealed, the black ring is a lip seal.

I removed the lip seal, just pried it off. Next I cleaned some grease out to show the small lip that needs notched, it's circled in red. The cage is also visible.

Yes, this might not be doable but I enjoy a good challenge.

Also you can see the cartridge bearing elements. A one piece double sided cup, two separate cones and two shields or seals.

FWIW

Gary

[dznf0g]

Thanks Gary. That'll be a last resort effort, but a great idea.
Dave, if I have to get to that point, it would be new axle time anyway, if I tear something up. Gary's idea is a good one and worth a try as a last ditch effort.

Gary, if I understand your methodology right, do you know if the hub would indeed slide over the inner race, or is there a slinger on the backside of a smaller diameter than the inner race?

[GCinSC2]

Rich,

That sample the cup (smallest) ID at the center is 2.435" the cone w/o rollers is 2.290" It would clear.

Predicting what if any interference the cage creates is an unknown but at that point its extraction by any method. I bet it could be twisted pulled out or a second cut somehow and get er done.

Gary

[Buckless]

The same as GCinSC2 said is what you may have to do. I used to do that a lot at the kaolin plant on bearings except we would use acetylene torches.
With a torch you would need to cut fast without giving time for spindle to heat up too much and let spindle air (fan) cool a while.
If you throw cold water on extremely hot metal it will damage it.

[jsaucier]

This was a routine maintenance Right? If so the wheel turned smoothly indicating no bearing problem, right? Have you had it off previously?

I have no experience with never lube, but usually races only gall to the spindle when the bearing runs dry and the rollers get destroyed. Galling is almost like welded. Lots of heat must be generated to gall a race to the spindle I have had to cut them off with a torch. But in that case the rollers fall out as you pull the hub off and the other parts come of easily leaving only the inner race on the spindle.

Can't tell much from the two pics, but If you can't pull the drum off, its no good like it is. I'd first be absolutely sure there is not a clip or something holding it on, then use a puller on the drum and put some serious pulling pressure on it and apply some sharp blows around the outside perimeter of the drum. The blows should be aimed as if you are hitting 90 degrees to the spindle.
Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

[MickeyC]

Take a flat pointed punch (3/8 inch in diameter or better) and use a 3 pound hammer to punch the race that is seized to the spindle inward. Put the punch parallel to the spindle where it is laying on the spindle and punching perpendicular to the race. Alternate sides of the race a few times. It will only move the race a few mm inward but it will break the rust loose. Spray a good penetrating lube (not WD40) on the race and spindle prior to punching it. Then try to pull it out with the puller. You may have to work it back and forth a few times but eventually it should come. If this doesn't work I would get a pointed or flat blade punch and try to split the race.

[dznf0g]

Thanks Gents, for your comments. Until you have one of these down, it's hard to know what is and isn't possible
Yes, this was normal maintenance. The subject corner still spun normally....no roughness nor noise, but there was a lot of end play, per Dexter manual, my 40 years experience, and compared to the other 3 corners.
No, I had never had the hubs off before....no reason to.
I tore down the other 3 this morning. They had liberal amounts of anti-seize and slid right off by hand. Those 3 showed signs of anti-seize on the spindle nut and washer. Not so with the stuck one. I don't think it got coated upon assembly. This is not a galling nor overheating situation. It is water intrusion. There is no slinger nor seal on the back of the hub. Water can easily get into the bearing cavity.

There are no clips or other hidden retention devices...like I said I've had the other 3 off.

Unfortunately, there is no way to drive the bearing inward and then pull. The inner race is up against a shoulder on the spindle...and torqued there by the spindle nut at 150lbFt.

Presently, I have my 3 claw, screw type puller on as hard as I can, and am periodically flooding with penetrant and air hammering.

My hydraulic puller shipped today by FedEx, so I expect it in the next few days.

[GCinSC2]

Rich

Just a try at getting your favorite rust buster in there. Remove the bearing grease dust shield and take the wand of brake clean and spray away to flush grease and crud out. Then spray rust be gone in between rollers flooding the area and it has a chance to get behind and between the cup races.

Keep the bandaid count at zero.

Gary