Lug nut torque and never seize ??

[MOS]

Have a 2016 FC 28W . Can someone tell me the correct torque for the lug nuts and if I should use Never Seize on them .
Thanks

[Action]

Clean dry lug studs, lug nuts and lugs is always the rule.

NEVER use anti-seize or any other lubricant.

The correct torque spec will be in the owner's manual.

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[Rich Jenkins]

110 ft lbs for Aluminum, 100 for steel.

Per page 4-4 in my 2016 FC manual.

I don't believe anti-seize is recommended; at least I would not use it.

[Bill M.]

Clean, dry lug nuts and studs for the torque reading. If they are lubricated the tension will be too high at the torque values.

[overlander63]

Torque is 110# DRY. That means no anti-sieze or other lubricant.

[Wingeezer]

Agree with what others have said - if you lube the threads and then torque to the specified limit (for dry fasteners) you will apply too much torque and stretch the bolts too much, possibly beyond their elastic limit, not a good thing!

Took me a while to learn this!

[Rich Jenkins]

...and also: thanks for the reminder.

Going to torque my lug nuts tomorrow.

[malinois38]

Originally Posted by Llando88

110 ft lbs for Aluminum, 100 for steel.

Per page 4-4 in my 2016 FC manual.

I don't believe anti-seize is recommended; at least I would not use it.

So, everyone that switched to Mcgards should be at 100lbs....Not 110lbs?
Don't know how I missed that one.

Thanks Llando88!

[Rich Jenkins]

Originally Posted by malinois38

So, everyone that switched to Mcgards should be at 100lbs....Not 110lbs?

Don't know how I missed that one.



Thanks Llando88!

Uh...don't think I said that. The manual refers to aluminum wheels (110) and steel wheels (100). Sorry if that was not clear.

I'm not qualified to recommend a torque value for a different fastener, but I'd be hard pressed to figure out why the factory wheel torque would not be the same regardless of the factory two-piece nut, or the upgraded one-piece?

Rich

[Action]

Originally Posted by Llando88

.... but I'd be hard pressed to figure out why the factory wheel torque would not be the same regardless of the factory two-piece nut, or the upgraded one-piece?

Rich

The wheel and lug stud do not know the difference. Same torque no matter the lug nut type.


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[Bgibbs]

Just a little side note on lugnuts. I owned a German car repair shop for 40 years. Most of the earlier Porsche 911's came with magnesium wheels and lug nuts to save weight. If you do not use anti seize, the wheel and lugnut will actually fuse together. It is very disturbing when the top of the lugnut comes off and the bottom, conical part is still bonded to the wheel. The only way to get the wheel off is to carefully use a holesaw to remove the stuck part. This is the only application I know of where lugnut torques are not quoted for dry fasteners.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by Bgibbs

Just a little side note on lugnuts. I owned a German car repair shop for 40 years. < snip >

Well, well... another reminder that it's a small world after all! If I'm guessing correctly, you are the self-same "B Gibbs" of "IXXI Enterprises" in years gone by. I bought the Recaro LS seats for my '77 Sienna Metallic 911S from you (among a lot of other stuff ). The seats had Recaro's "spectrum" orange inserts and looked wonderful. I sure wish I could find that car and bring it back to my garage. The "Black Swan" needs a playmate.

I hope all's well with you and yours!

Rob

[DeltaRon]

Interesting responses. I replaced my 15" wheels with 16" aluminum along with Michelin tires at Jackson Center. They told me and placed a sticker on my FC 28 that proper torque was 130 ft lbs. Am I overtightening?

[craftsman]

When I worked for Land Rover we not only used anti- seize on the lug nuts we also brushed it on the back of the wheel where it met the hub. Some Range Rovers would come in where the wheel was frozen with corrosion to the hub and you'd have to beat it off with a dead blow mallet. Anti- seize isn't going to affect lug nut torque.

[Caffeinated]

From Jackson center for my 2015 FC with Sendel wheels and McGards. 110 lbs.

Mike

[Jekerrville]

Be very careful with this subject. See picture attached. What happened??

[Yellowstone4]

I am going to split the difference on the advice you've received so far. Like the German car mechanic, I've had similar issues with various Mercedes rims that have seized lug bolts (the Germans like lug bolts instead of nuts that grab studs) where the conical end that actually applies pressure to the wheel wants to bind.

I agree that you should never, under any circumstances apply any lubricant or chemical to a stud for mounting any wheels. However, applying a small amount to where the nut or lug stud attaches to the wheel (not the threads) or where the back of the wheel mounts to the hub is fine since it has nothing to do with the torquing of the lug nuts or bolts as the case may be.

[Action]

And location of use may be a consideration.

In BC or other areas of the North ....sure. I was born in a small town back East called Detroit. Salt was used a lot because it is available and works well on frozen water. One of the side benefits of salt is all of the chemical reactions in the wet environment near pavement. (Iron oxide and ...)

In the wild wild West we have neither the moisture nor the salt. Hence no chemical reactions. In fact today the humidity is 9%. Single digit humidity is the norm until the wet season and then we go crazy to 30%.

Corroded non-steel wheels is not an issue here. Areas that have high humidity or the white stuff with trucks dropping chemicals may need a little extra protection between the wheel and hub. Not so much on the threads.

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[Bob662]

I'm a bit surprised by the many who say no way, no time, never ever use lube on lug nuts. I get it that the dry torque values can't be used with lubes for the reasons previously stated, but if the dry torque values are properly adjusted down (-20% for oil, -30 to 35% for grease and -40% for Never Seize), what's the problem?

Also, since only 10% of applied torque is used to tighten the bolt (the rest overcomes friction: 40% on the nut face and 50% on the threads), to say a little Never Seize on the lug nut face doesn't change anything is, I believe, incorrect.

Can someone show me the error of my thinking?

[Action]

The error is the spec given is on clean dry threads.

It is like checking tire pressure at the end of the day after a long run. You are going to get a pressure. And there is no published pressure spec for a hot tire.

By reducing the torque with lubricant you are creating your own spec. I can not say if Airstream does testing. Car manufactures do testing of this type all the time. They spend millions in design and testing and pay millions in law suit settlements if they get it wrong.

To answer your question, "Can someone show me the error of my thinking?"

Since the procedure you suggest is different from the manufacturer, what testing have you done? What research can you produce to show that the manufacturers method can be over looked? How did you come to those percentages?

There is a thread here by an owner that picked up a AS that had anti-seize on the threads of the lugs. The lug nuts loosened and he lost some. Even after repeated cleanings lug nuts loosening was still an issue to some degree.

You can do what you wish on your vehicle. For me I will stick with the manufacturers recommendations for lug nut torqueing.

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