|
|
06-29-2017, 10:35 AM
|
#1
|
2 Rivet Member
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Boulder
, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 24
|
Will Pro Pride Hitch Add Tongue Weight?
Hey there-
Looking to get a PP hitch and curious if it will add substantial tongue weight. if so does anyone know how much tongue weight it adds?
Thanks, Andrew
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 10:44 AM
|
#2
|
Retired.
Currently Looking...
.
, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
|
It adds however much it weighs to the tongue weight.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 10:50 AM
|
#3
|
4 Rivet Member
2000 30' Excella
Toledo
, Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 493
|
call them they can tell you . I had a Hensley shipped to my house and it was 238Lbs. but they had it in some heavy duty boxes .
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 11:16 AM
|
#4
|
Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,406
|
Yes. On TV and AS. And I am well within limits. How about your loads? What are they?
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 11:20 AM
|
#5
|
Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek
, California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,952
|
They weigh about 180 lbs. Most WD/SC hitches weigh 75-80 lbs, so it's in the neighborhood of 100 lbs.
How that effects your rig configuration takes some analysis. You have a lot of research to do. Keep reading these Hitch threads. Pat
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 12:39 PM
|
#6
|
2 Rivet Member
2016 30' Classic
Indianapolis
, Indiana
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 65
|
For what it's worth, we love our PP hitch! And company support has been great.
__________________
2016 Classic 30'
2016 GMC Sierra 2500HD
ProPride Hitch
Indianapolis, IN
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 02:18 PM
|
#7
|
Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,685
|
Hi
A bit off topic, but a possible other detail: When you un-hitch, a large part of the weight stays with the trailer. That puts it on the front jack. The jacks are heavy duty so no big issue there.
Bob
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 02:38 PM
|
#8
|
Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
|
Including the stinger, it adds 180 lbs to your Airstream tongue, but because of its added length it lengthens the distance from truck receiver to trailer axles. This gives added leverage to carry the trailer tongue, so the ProPride/Hensley adds little to nothing to trailer tongue weight carried by the tow vehicle.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 02:58 PM
|
#9
|
2 Rivet Member
Frederica
, Delaware
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 88
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
including the stinger, it adds 180 lbs to your airstream tongue, but because of its added length it lengthens the distance from truck receiver to trailer axles. This gives added leverage to carry the trailer tongue, so the propride/hensley adds little to nothing to trailer tongue weight carried by the tow vehicle.
|
x2!
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 03:21 PM
|
#10
|
4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Vintage Kin Owner
Sonoma Co.
, California
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 297
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Including the stinger, it adds 180 lbs to your Airstream tongue, but because of its added length it lengthens the distance from truck receiver to trailer axles. This gives added leverage to carry the trailer tongue, so the ProPride/Hensley adds little to nothing to trailer tongue weight carried by the tow vehicle.
|
Are you saying the extra 180# is all, or mostly all, carried by the trailer axle(s)? Excuse my incredulity, but that defies logic and the theories of plane geometry. A good part of this 180# weight must get distributed to the TV's axles when the trailer is hooked up. The only time I can imagine that the 180# is wholly on the trailer is when the trailer is unhooked completely from the TV. In that case the whole 180# is mostly all on the trailer tongue.
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 03:31 PM
|
#11
|
Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,685
|
Hi
Ok, so it's all magic. It eliminates all of it's own weight, eliminates all of the tongue weight of the trailer and does not (from other posts) add any weight to the trailer axles at all. It also takes (from other posts) 25% of the pre-hookup scale weight off the rear axle of the TV without adding anything to the front axle of the TV. Weight just vanishes. I suspect that it soon will be providing free energy to everybody
Ok, so it really can't work that way. There are a lot of posts and you can't just randomly pick bits from each of them.
If indeed, you pull 800 lb of tongue weight off of the TV and put it on the trailer *and* put 300 lb of hitch weight all back on the trailer *and* pull a few hundred pounds off the rear axle in addition, you are well over a half ton back onto the trailer axles. Fill up the water tank and the fridge with beer - there's not much (if any) left for load on a *lot* of models.
Bob
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 03:48 PM
|
#12
|
Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
|
I recommend using helium. You can purchase helium tanks from Walmart. Simply placed one inside your Airstream, open the valves the tank, and close the door, SIMPLE! This will make your trailer all but float down the road
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 08:53 PM
|
#13
|
Rivet Master
South East
, Michigan
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
Hi
Ok, so it's all magic. It eliminates all of it's own weight, eliminates all of the tongue weight of the trailer and does not (from other posts) add any weight to the trailer axles at all. It also takes (from other posts) 25% of the pre-hookup scale weight off the rear axle of the TV without adding anything to the front axle of the TV. Weight just vanishes. I suspect that it soon will be providing free energy to everybody
|
As previously noted, both Hensley style hitches add overall length to the rig and moves the weight transfer point farther away from the trailer axle.
Tongue weight is a factor of leverage. Have you read the posts on how to determine your tongue weight with a bathroom scale? Yes, properly setup, a bathroom scale with a maximum weight capacity of 250 pounds can accurately measure well over 1000 pounds of tongue weight - thanks to physics and leverage.
Bottom line - tongue weight is a factor of the amount of total trailer weight before and behind the trailer axle and the distance between the axle and the point where weight is transferred to the TV. Like with ANY lever, the longer the lever, the lower the tongue weight. That is also why a 300 lb torque wrench is much longer than a 150 lb wrench.
__________________
Al
2017 29' SOB, 2022 Platinum F-150 SCrew, ProPride
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 09:08 PM
|
#14
|
Rivet Master
South East
, Michigan
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAtraveler
Are you saying the extra 180# is all, or mostly all, carried by the trailer axle(s)? Excuse my incredulity, but that defies logic and the theories of plane geometry. A good part of this 180# weight must get distributed to the TV's axles when the trailer is hooked up. The only time I can imagine that the 180# is wholly on the trailer is when the trailer is unhooked completely from the TV. In that case the whole 180# is mostly all on the trailer tongue.
|
Much of the HITCH weight goes directly to tongue weight. HOWEVER, because the distance from the axle to the TV is longer, more of the TRAILER weight stays on the trailer axles. If the hitch did not add to the distance from the axles to the TV, then your thinking would be correct.
I have seen posts on multiple forums where people did weigh their rigs before and after putting on a Hensley style hitch. I was surprised to see how many had minimal or negative changes to tongue weight. Here is one from this forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bono
Hi,
I weighted the tongue weight of my trailer with Sherline scale. Under the PP stinger it showed 700 lbs and under the jack 900 lbs. I understand the difference, but it surprised me that it is as high as 200 lbs.
700 lbs with two full 20 lbs propane tanks is a bit (nice) surprise for me as my spec dry TW is 680 lbs. However, I moved the lithium batteries to the back of the trailer (inside). It is around 10% of the weight of the trailer ready for camping.
Cheers!
|
__________________
Al
2017 29' SOB, 2022 Platinum F-150 SCrew, ProPride
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 09:24 PM
|
#15
|
Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,406
|
The WD (weight distribution) PP or HaHa "add weight"...period. Nothing "vanishes"... but it is distributed... hitch (Stinger and trailer attached items), are part of the TV and AS. There are threads all over the forum discussing many of the physics, plane geometry and other disciplines..
There are also many u-tubz videos going into great analysis.... I am simple folks, keep it simple...
1- The Stinger is attached to the "receiver" on the TV. W1
2- the WD hitch head and attachments are on the "trailer" (hitch, WD bars, adjusters, chains... etc. W2
3- W1 and W2 is behind the TV rear axle. This becomes part of the "tongue weight" (TW) supported by the TV. This decreases the useable TW (if TV TW capacity is 200 pounds, adding a 50 pound component to the receiver Reduces the capacity of the TV TW to 150 pounds.)
4- any added weight behind axles will raise the TV bow..(like a 200 gallon auxiliary fuel tank next to the tailgate) and cause the rear suspension to squat a bit (even if undetected by careful observation. ) Add enough TW to rear and you can pivot the TV bow up around the rear axle... now we are getting into the WD physics
5- there is TW on (from) the trailer... say 900 pounds. Add the WD hitch weight, say 200, you are at 1100 pounds... don't forget your 50 pound Stinger.. now you have loaded 1150 pounds of TW... the TV stern WILL lower and Bow WILL rise (at least in this universe)... this can all be considered as trailer TW
6- once connected, the trailer TW applied to the TV receiver will cause the TV stern to squat and bow to rise.
7- when WD is "added/dialed in", a longitudinal (bow to stern) load is applied at the receiver by torquing the receiver to lift the stern and depress the bow. This is called WD (weight distribution) which pivots at the hitch head pivot (trailer coupler)
8- the suspended TW is spread between the TV and the trailer.
So, as the WD torques the receiver, "weight" (load) is transferred toward bow, depressing the bow and raising stern of TV. The objective is to "distribute" the TW from the stern toward the bow of the TV.
You can't get the WD to do this without causing the weight (load) to move between TV and Trailer. These loads change with loading of both vehicles and movements as you tow.
Thankfully the hitches are thought out... and others here and elsewhere have shared their experiences and insights...
You did not ask about all that directly... but ... it is important to start building your own experience with your "rig"...
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
|
|
|
06-29-2017, 11:06 PM
|
#16
|
2 Rivet Member
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Boulder
, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 24
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwf
The WD (weight distribution) PP or HaHa "add weight"...period. Nothing "vanishes"... but it is distributed... hitch (Stinger and trailer attached items), are part of the TV and AS. There are threads all over the forum discussing many of the physics, plane geometry and other disciplines..
There are also many u-tubz videos going into great analysis.... I am simple folks, keep it simple...
1- The Stinger is attached to the "receiver" on the TV. W1
2- the WD hitch head and attachments are on the "trailer" (hitch, WD bars, adjusters, chains... etc. W2
3- W1 and W2 is behind the TV rear axle. This becomes part of the "tongue weight" (TW) supported by the TV. This decreases the useable TW (if TV TW capacity is 200 pounds, adding a 50 pound component to the receiver Reduces the capacity of the TV TW to 150 pounds.)
4- any added weight behind axles will raise the TV bow..(like a 200 gallon auxiliary fuel tank next to the tailgate) and cause the rear suspension to squat a bit (even if undetected by careful observation. ) Add enough TW to rear and you can pivot the TV bow up around the rear axle... now we are getting into the WD physics
5- there is TW on (from) the trailer... say 900 pounds. Add the WD hitch weight, say 200, you are at 1100 pounds... don't forget your 50 pound Stinger.. now you have loaded 1150 pounds of TW... the TV stern WILL lower and Bow WILL rise (at least in this universe)... this can all be considered as trailer TW
6- once connected, the trailer TW applied to the TV receiver will cause the TV stern to squat and bow to rise.
7- when WD is "added/dialed in", a longitudinal (bow to stern) load is applied at the receiver by torquing the receiver to lift the stern and depress the bow. This is called WD (weight distribution) which pivots at the hitch head pivot (trailer coupler)
8- the suspended TW is spread between the TV and the trailer.
So, as the WD torques the receiver, "weight" (load) is transferred toward bow, depressing the bow and raising stern of TV. The objective is to "distribute" the TW from the stern toward the bow of the TV.
You can't get the WD to do this without causing the weight (load) to move between TV and Trailer. These loads change with loading of both vehicles and movements as you tow.
Thankfully the hitches are thought out... and others here and elsewhere have shared their experiences and insights...
You did not ask about all that directly... but ... it is important to start building your own experience with your "rig"...
|
Thank you. This was very helpful and starting to make sense. I definitely have some squatting in the rear of my 1/2 ton Tundra. One question I have is with regards to my WD jacks and the height with which I raise them to. Given my trailer weight and truck I was given an initial height of 6" to raise the WD Jacks to. If I were to raise them say to 7 1/2 inches does that in theory help shift more weight to the front axel? And, is there a point or max at which I should stop raising the WD jacks? Thanks Andrew
|
|
|
06-30-2017, 04:52 AM
|
#17
|
Rivet Master
Livingston
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 586
|
Abj1,
If you need to transfer more weight forward, yes you can pull more on your jacks. But also, you can add more washers on the head to get more tilt and have more transfer weight without pulling "harder" on the jacks.
And Yes, there is a point at which the jacks will stop. At maxed travel limit. Then the only way to get more transfer force is to add washers.
I prefer to have less jack travel so I utilize washers.
__________________
Sphere Guy
AIR 50601
|
|
|
06-30-2017, 05:28 AM
|
#18
|
Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abj1
...snip...
And, is there a point or max at which I should stop raising the WD jacks? Thanks Andrew
|
Yes on a few levels. Your truck's user manual should tell you whether it wants 50%, 100% or some other FALR (front axle load restoration) when towing. Consider that your target.
The squat you notice in the rear is part of a process that also lifts weight off your front/steer axle. This is where the scales help the most. If your trailer lifts 400# off your front axle and your truck wants 50% FALR, you want to dial in 200# back to the front axle.
You might be able to use a fender measurement for a "good enough" sense of FALR - in my case I can't - 2500 Diesel front end barely moves - but on the scales, some 500# are getting lifted off the steer axle and to put it all back on I use 6" - but I can tell that by the scales. Using 7.5" would restore more to the steer axle than was lifted and that too would degrade handling (one causes understeer the other causes oversteer - you want the Goldilocks zone).
There's also a physical limitation to those jacks. At some point there is nothing left to lift.
|
|
|
06-30-2017, 06:07 AM
|
#19
|
Site Team
2009 25' FB International
2018 27' Globetrotter
Tavares
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,680
|
This is a very interesting discussion and I appreciate the explanations presented. I am currently using a Blue Ox WD system. Seems to work well and I am satisfied.
However, has anyone who has a PP hitch and been to the CAT scales be willing to show the numbers? It's not that I doubt the information provided by those with experience but I would like to see how much of a difference it makes. My reason for asking is that my RAM truck has a lower payload that many other 1/2 T trucks.
Thanks!
|
|
|
06-30-2017, 06:19 AM
|
#20
|
Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
|
Our ProPride works best when we put in the maximum amount of washers that will fit under the tilt rivet. Then we have more vertical movement to apply w.d. and the bars have more vertical movement to flex and maintain w.d. when traveling down the roadway.
Ideally, the w.d. bars will be tilted downward slightly toward the rear when hitched and w.d. applied. Andrew Thomson of Can-AM wrote a good article about tilting the w.d. bars downward, and how it can also help stabilize the tow vehicle in turns.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|