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Old 06-29-2017, 10:35 AM   #1
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Will Pro Pride Hitch Add Tongue Weight?

Hey there-

Looking to get a PP hitch and curious if it will add substantial tongue weight. if so does anyone know how much tongue weight it adds?

Thanks, Andrew
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:44 AM   #2
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It adds however much it weighs to the tongue weight.
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:50 AM   #3
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call them they can tell you . I had a Hensley shipped to my house and it was 238Lbs. but they had it in some heavy duty boxes .
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:16 AM   #4
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Yes. On TV and AS. And I am well within limits. How about your loads? What are they?
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:20 AM   #5
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They weigh about 180 lbs. Most WD/SC hitches weigh 75-80 lbs, so it's in the neighborhood of 100 lbs.

How that effects your rig configuration takes some analysis. You have a lot of research to do. Keep reading these Hitch threads. Pat
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:39 PM   #6
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For what it's worth, we love our PP hitch! And company support has been great.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:18 PM   #7
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Hi

A bit off topic, but a possible other detail: When you un-hitch, a large part of the weight stays with the trailer. That puts it on the front jack. The jacks are heavy duty so no big issue there.

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Old 06-29-2017, 02:38 PM   #8
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Including the stinger, it adds 180 lbs to your Airstream tongue, but because of its added length it lengthens the distance from truck receiver to trailer axles. This gives added leverage to carry the trailer tongue, so the ProPride/Hensley adds little to nothing to trailer tongue weight carried by the tow vehicle.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
including the stinger, it adds 180 lbs to your airstream tongue, but because of its added length it lengthens the distance from truck receiver to trailer axles. This gives added leverage to carry the trailer tongue, so the propride/hensley adds little to nothing to trailer tongue weight carried by the tow vehicle.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:21 PM   #10
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Including the stinger, it adds 180 lbs to your Airstream tongue, but because of its added length it lengthens the distance from truck receiver to trailer axles. This gives added leverage to carry the trailer tongue, so the ProPride/Hensley adds little to nothing to trailer tongue weight carried by the tow vehicle.
Are you saying the extra 180# is all, or mostly all, carried by the trailer axle(s)? Excuse my incredulity, but that defies logic and the theories of plane geometry. A good part of this 180# weight must get distributed to the TV's axles when the trailer is hooked up. The only time I can imagine that the 180# is wholly on the trailer is when the trailer is unhooked completely from the TV. In that case the whole 180# is mostly all on the trailer tongue.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:31 PM   #11
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Hi

Ok, so it's all magic. It eliminates all of it's own weight, eliminates all of the tongue weight of the trailer and does not (from other posts) add any weight to the trailer axles at all. It also takes (from other posts) 25% of the pre-hookup scale weight off the rear axle of the TV without adding anything to the front axle of the TV. Weight just vanishes. I suspect that it soon will be providing free energy to everybody

Ok, so it really can't work that way. There are a lot of posts and you can't just randomly pick bits from each of them.

If indeed, you pull 800 lb of tongue weight off of the TV and put it on the trailer *and* put 300 lb of hitch weight all back on the trailer *and* pull a few hundred pounds off the rear axle in addition, you are well over a half ton back onto the trailer axles. Fill up the water tank and the fridge with beer - there's not much (if any) left for load on a *lot* of models.

Bob
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:48 PM   #12
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I recommend using helium. You can purchase helium tanks from Walmart. Simply placed one inside your Airstream, open the valves the tank, and close the door, SIMPLE! This will make your trailer all but float down the road
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:53 PM   #13
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Hi

Ok, so it's all magic. It eliminates all of it's own weight, eliminates all of the tongue weight of the trailer and does not (from other posts) add any weight to the trailer axles at all. It also takes (from other posts) 25% of the pre-hookup scale weight off the rear axle of the TV without adding anything to the front axle of the TV. Weight just vanishes. I suspect that it soon will be providing free energy to everybody
As previously noted, both Hensley style hitches add overall length to the rig and moves the weight transfer point farther away from the trailer axle.

Tongue weight is a factor of leverage. Have you read the posts on how to determine your tongue weight with a bathroom scale? Yes, properly setup, a bathroom scale with a maximum weight capacity of 250 pounds can accurately measure well over 1000 pounds of tongue weight - thanks to physics and leverage.

Bottom line - tongue weight is a factor of the amount of total trailer weight before and behind the trailer axle and the distance between the axle and the point where weight is transferred to the TV. Like with ANY lever, the longer the lever, the lower the tongue weight. That is also why a 300 lb torque wrench is much longer than a 150 lb wrench.
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:08 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by USAtraveler View Post
Are you saying the extra 180# is all, or mostly all, carried by the trailer axle(s)? Excuse my incredulity, but that defies logic and the theories of plane geometry. A good part of this 180# weight must get distributed to the TV's axles when the trailer is hooked up. The only time I can imagine that the 180# is wholly on the trailer is when the trailer is unhooked completely from the TV. In that case the whole 180# is mostly all on the trailer tongue.
Much of the HITCH weight goes directly to tongue weight. HOWEVER, because the distance from the axle to the TV is longer, more of the TRAILER weight stays on the trailer axles. If the hitch did not add to the distance from the axles to the TV, then your thinking would be correct.
I have seen posts on multiple forums where people did weigh their rigs before and after putting on a Hensley style hitch. I was surprised to see how many had minimal or negative changes to tongue weight. Here is one from this forum:


Quote:
Originally Posted by bono View Post
Hi,

I weighted the tongue weight of my trailer with Sherline scale. Under the PP stinger it showed 700 lbs and under the jack 900 lbs. I understand the difference, but it surprised me that it is as high as 200 lbs.

700 lbs with two full 20 lbs propane tanks is a bit (nice) surprise for me as my spec dry TW is 680 lbs. However, I moved the lithium batteries to the back of the trailer (inside). It is around 10% of the weight of the trailer ready for camping.

Cheers!


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Old 06-29-2017, 09:24 PM   #15
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The WD (weight distribution) PP or HaHa "add weight"...period. Nothing "vanishes"... but it is distributed... hitch (Stinger and trailer attached items), are part of the TV and AS. There are threads all over the forum discussing many of the physics, plane geometry and other disciplines..

There are also many u-tubz videos going into great analysis.... I am simple folks, keep it simple...

1- The Stinger is attached to the "receiver" on the TV. W1
2- the WD hitch head and attachments are on the "trailer" (hitch, WD bars, adjusters, chains... etc. W2
3- W1 and W2 is behind the TV rear axle. This becomes part of the "tongue weight" (TW) supported by the TV. This decreases the useable TW (if TV TW capacity is 200 pounds, adding a 50 pound component to the receiver Reduces the capacity of the TV TW to 150 pounds.)
4- any added weight behind axles will raise the TV bow..(like a 200 gallon auxiliary fuel tank next to the tailgate) and cause the rear suspension to squat a bit (even if undetected by careful observation. ) Add enough TW to rear and you can pivot the TV bow up around the rear axle... now we are getting into the WD physics
5- there is TW on (from) the trailer... say 900 pounds. Add the WD hitch weight, say 200, you are at 1100 pounds... don't forget your 50 pound Stinger.. now you have loaded 1150 pounds of TW... the TV stern WILL lower and Bow WILL rise (at least in this universe)... this can all be considered as trailer TW
6- once connected, the trailer TW applied to the TV receiver will cause the TV stern to squat and bow to rise.
7- when WD is "added/dialed in", a longitudinal (bow to stern) load is applied at the receiver by torquing the receiver to lift the stern and depress the bow. This is called WD (weight distribution) which pivots at the hitch head pivot (trailer coupler)
8- the suspended TW is spread between the TV and the trailer.

So, as the WD torques the receiver, "weight" (load) is transferred toward bow, depressing the bow and raising stern of TV. The objective is to "distribute" the TW from the stern toward the bow of the TV.

You can't get the WD to do this without causing the weight (load) to move between TV and Trailer. These loads change with loading of both vehicles and movements as you tow.

Thankfully the hitches are thought out... and others here and elsewhere have shared their experiences and insights...

You did not ask about all that directly... but ... it is important to start building your own experience with your "rig"...
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cwf View Post
The WD (weight distribution) PP or HaHa "add weight"...period. Nothing "vanishes"... but it is distributed... hitch (Stinger and trailer attached items), are part of the TV and AS. There are threads all over the forum discussing many of the physics, plane geometry and other disciplines..

There are also many u-tubz videos going into great analysis.... I am simple folks, keep it simple...

1- The Stinger is attached to the "receiver" on the TV. W1
2- the WD hitch head and attachments are on the "trailer" (hitch, WD bars, adjusters, chains... etc. W2
3- W1 and W2 is behind the TV rear axle. This becomes part of the "tongue weight" (TW) supported by the TV. This decreases the useable TW (if TV TW capacity is 200 pounds, adding a 50 pound component to the receiver Reduces the capacity of the TV TW to 150 pounds.)
4- any added weight behind axles will raise the TV bow..(like a 200 gallon auxiliary fuel tank next to the tailgate) and cause the rear suspension to squat a bit (even if undetected by careful observation. ) Add enough TW to rear and you can pivot the TV bow up around the rear axle... now we are getting into the WD physics
5- there is TW on (from) the trailer... say 900 pounds. Add the WD hitch weight, say 200, you are at 1100 pounds... don't forget your 50 pound Stinger.. now you have loaded 1150 pounds of TW... the TV stern WILL lower and Bow WILL rise (at least in this universe)... this can all be considered as trailer TW
6- once connected, the trailer TW applied to the TV receiver will cause the TV stern to squat and bow to rise.
7- when WD is "added/dialed in", a longitudinal (bow to stern) load is applied at the receiver by torquing the receiver to lift the stern and depress the bow. This is called WD (weight distribution) which pivots at the hitch head pivot (trailer coupler)
8- the suspended TW is spread between the TV and the trailer.

So, as the WD torques the receiver, "weight" (load) is transferred toward bow, depressing the bow and raising stern of TV. The objective is to "distribute" the TW from the stern toward the bow of the TV.

You can't get the WD to do this without causing the weight (load) to move between TV and Trailer. These loads change with loading of both vehicles and movements as you tow.

Thankfully the hitches are thought out... and others here and elsewhere have shared their experiences and insights...

You did not ask about all that directly... but ... it is important to start building your own experience with your "rig"...
Thank you. This was very helpful and starting to make sense. I definitely have some squatting in the rear of my 1/2 ton Tundra. One question I have is with regards to my WD jacks and the height with which I raise them to. Given my trailer weight and truck I was given an initial height of 6" to raise the WD Jacks to. If I were to raise them say to 7 1/2 inches does that in theory help shift more weight to the front axel? And, is there a point or max at which I should stop raising the WD jacks? Thanks Andrew
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Old 06-30-2017, 04:52 AM   #17
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Abj1,

If you need to transfer more weight forward, yes you can pull more on your jacks. But also, you can add more washers on the head to get more tilt and have more transfer weight without pulling "harder" on the jacks.

And Yes, there is a point at which the jacks will stop. At maxed travel limit. Then the only way to get more transfer force is to add washers.

I prefer to have less jack travel so I utilize washers.
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Old 06-30-2017, 05:28 AM   #18
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...snip...
And, is there a point or max at which I should stop raising the WD jacks? Thanks Andrew

Yes on a few levels. Your truck's user manual should tell you whether it wants 50%, 100% or some other FALR (front axle load restoration) when towing. Consider that your target.

The squat you notice in the rear is part of a process that also lifts weight off your front/steer axle. This is where the scales help the most. If your trailer lifts 400# off your front axle and your truck wants 50% FALR, you want to dial in 200# back to the front axle.

You might be able to use a fender measurement for a "good enough" sense of FALR - in my case I can't - 2500 Diesel front end barely moves - but on the scales, some 500# are getting lifted off the steer axle and to put it all back on I use 6" - but I can tell that by the scales. Using 7.5" would restore more to the steer axle than was lifted and that too would degrade handling (one causes understeer the other causes oversteer - you want the Goldilocks zone).

There's also a physical limitation to those jacks. At some point there is nothing left to lift.
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:07 AM   #19
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This is a very interesting discussion and I appreciate the explanations presented. I am currently using a Blue Ox WD system. Seems to work well and I am satisfied.

However, has anyone who has a PP hitch and been to the CAT scales be willing to show the numbers? It's not that I doubt the information provided by those with experience but I would like to see how much of a difference it makes. My reason for asking is that my RAM truck has a lower payload that many other 1/2 T trucks.

Thanks!
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Old 06-30-2017, 06:19 AM   #20
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Our ProPride works best when we put in the maximum amount of washers that will fit under the tilt rivet. Then we have more vertical movement to apply w.d. and the bars have more vertical movement to flex and maintain w.d. when traveling down the roadway.

Ideally, the w.d. bars will be tilted downward slightly toward the rear when hitched and w.d. applied. Andrew Thomson of Can-AM wrote a good article about tilting the w.d. bars downward, and how it can also help stabilize the tow vehicle in turns.
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