What's Really Bad About Slightly Nose Up?

[MSDeneen]

I definitely have been advised that my TT must be level or slightly nose down. However, I don't understand why that should be so..... technically.

Picture stacked off my current rig. It is a green degrees nose up. I use a 6" drop Hensley shank. It has to have huge heavy gussets to provide the strength for such a drop. If I were to get an 8", I think the weight would increase and perhaps reduce reliability to breakage with such an extreme drop. Also, I'm concerned about dragging over driveways.

My rig tows better than any I've ever had. The Hensley locks out sway completely and I use very small WD only because of "rules of thumb", and convention. The TV doesn't really need it on the basis of specifications.

I watch my tire temps, and they don't change. All 4 run within a degree or two.

[CharlesinGA]

The issue as I see it is that the trailer needs to be level, due to the torsion axles that operate totally independent of each other. Dead level means both axles are loaded the same and that the tires should wear the same, and the trailer should handle properly.

In my eye, if you must be out of level slightly then nose up is good, as it puts more weight on the aft axle and the trailer will have less tendency to sway (its the same as a trailer being tongue heavy, which normally helps with preventing sway.

A nose down condition loads the forward axle more and puts more weight behind the axle and less tongue weight and less stability, more tendency to sway.

The argument against being nose up is the underside catching air and lifting it, causing an unstable condition. I suspect this is minimal unless the trailer is extremely nose high.

Charles

[Bill M.]

I think the main problem is that too much nose up can cause or at least contribute to uncontrolled sway. So...level or slightly nose down for me.

[DCPAS]

I had the same problem. I could choose slightly nose up or a bit more nose down. It bothered me looking at it nose up so I adjusted it down a slot and am driving it nose down. Nose down ended up with a bit less tongue weight and more weight on the front axle, but the driving experience is pretty much the same. One side issue is the reduced weight on the rear axle resulted in my flat spotting the rear tires until I turned the brake gain down. Just speaking from my experience with with no expertise, I would leave it alone.

[Mollysdad]

Nose up means tail down, and thus dragging that expensive bumper in gas stations and parking lots.
Can't you drop the head one hole on the shank?

[MSDeneen]

I have no sway possible with the Hensley. I recently went through heavy winds for 100 miles at highway speeds- did many passing maneuvers and hit high speeds. Stable as a rock.

Yes, dragging the back could be a problem--but also if my hitch bar goes lower i fear dragging the hitch--which could cause damage.

Mainly though, I am very dubious about having such a long "L-shape drop" to the stinger. Adding more leverage in that direction just can't be a good thing when there is 5000# pushing on it. At some point it will damage the receiver or worse.

If my axles were unbalanced I'd probably see a temperature differential in the tires. Haven't seen that at all.

I think level is nicer aesthetically, but I'm not sure it is meaningful technically.

[switz]

The major problem for Hensley (I owned one in 2013 on a 2013 25FB and re-used later on a 2015 23D) is they had only 2" increments for adjusting the hitch height as they used 2" bar steel for their interface between trailer and tow vehicle.

I went with the second Jim Hensley design now called ProPride and they have always had 1" increments on hitch height. The 2014 Classic started with ProPride. We upgraded both trailers to new generation ProPride hitches a year or so back.

[MSDeneen]

This is what worries me:


As that drop gets bigger the forces on the receiver will get uneven and and the gussets need to be very strong.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by MSDeneen

This is what worries me:


As that drop gets bigger the forces on the receiver will get uneven and and the gussets need to be very strong.

Hi

You can buy drop shanks that are *plenty* strong enough.

Bob

[Tim A.]

Originally Posted by switz

The major problem for Hensley ... is they had only 2" increments for adjusting the hitch height ...

Hensley now offers an adjustable hitch bar. I don't know what the adjustment increments are.

Tim

[MSDeneen]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

You can buy drop shanks that are *plenty* strong enough.

Bob

Understood.


But the drop shank is not my worry. The forces on the receiver is my concern. Everytime that drop gets longer the forces acting on the receiver grow and the added drop gives MORE leverage which multiplies the force. In a 1.5G braking maneuver, with a very long drop, a 5000# trailer could be exerting close to 20,000# downward force on the reciever.

Math is not our friend in this situation.


Cheers!
Mark

[Wazbro]

Well you could get a lift for the trailer. That could level things out a bit.

[MSDeneen]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

Well you could get a lift for the trailer. That could level things out a bit.

Never heard of that! Is there s DIY KIT you know of? Sounds like an ok idea!

Thanks!
Cheers!

Mark

[JJTX]

Originally Posted by MSDeneen

I definitely have been advised that my TT must be level or slightly nose down. However, I don't understand why that should be so..... technically.


I watch my tire temps, and they don't change. All 4 run within a degree or two.

Dragging your rear dump valves and breaking them off ?

Inducing sway by shifting weight to the rear makes the trailer of any type unstable.

Just to name two off hand.

[LNBright]

Originally Posted by MSDeneen

Never heard of that! Is there s DIY KIT you know of? Sounds like an ok idea!

Thanks!
Cheers!

Mark

Dexter makes 3" lift blocks, you can install them yourself if you are a bit handy. (I had mine installed at the dealership in the purchase of...).

[MSDeneen]

Originally Posted by JJTX

Dragging your rear dump valves and breaking them off ?

Inducing sway by shifting weight to the rear makes the trailer of any type unstable.

Just to name two off hand.

I'm going to double check my valve clearance-thanks. Swat is not possible with my hitch, and I've driven through heavy crosswinds with absolutely no sway.

Cheers!
Mark

[CharlesinGA]

Originally Posted by MSDeneen

My rig tows better than any I've ever had. The Hensley locks out sway completely and I use very small WD only because of "rules of thumb", and convention. The TV doesn't really need it on the basis of specifications.

I watch my tire temps, and they don't change. All 4 run within a degree or two.

While the Hensley does prevent sway, that doesn't mean that the trailer isn't still TRYING to sway if loaded or leveled incorrectly, it just means that there is more stress on the hitch from the trailer wanting to sway. Truthfully, you want the trailer loaded and leveled so that if you simply towed on the ball, it would be fine.

If you are using stem mounted pressure sensors, I doubt they will reflect the tire temps to any degree of accuracy. They are hanging out in the breeze and not really exposed to tire temps. Sensors mounted inside the tire on the inner end of the stem, yes, they will show tire temps fairly accurately. If you want a decent feel for tire temps, buy a IR temp gun, even a cheap one from Harbor Freight, and use ir at every stop, just as soon as you get out. I keep mine in my drivers door pocket and can grab it and run around the trailer checking temps before I start pumping gas or whatever else I am doing. Sunny side is always warmer ;>)

Charles

[GOUSC]

I have always thought / heard that front up adds extra weight to the back and contributes to sway and that front down slightly increases the stability. This is opposite from what others have stated here so I googled it. The attached states that front slightly down is better than front slightly up to prevent sway.

I realize you say the Hensley won’t sway and your situation may be different. However in general, and to let others know, I believe this is the rule in most situations.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by MSDeneen

This is what worries me:


As that drop gets bigger the forces on the receiver will get uneven and and the gussets need to be very strong.

I get it. I have a drop shank which almost never contacts the ground, except when backing into my driveway. Then I get a "thump" as the shank bangs the concrete transition. So far no damage. I never hit a speed bump, etc.
However, you've thought about it, made your decision based on facts and I respect that.

[MSDeneen]

Originally Posted by GOUSC

I have always thought / heard that front up adds extra weight to the back and contributes to sway and that front down slightly increases the stability. This is opposite from what others have stated here so I googled it. The attached states that front slightly down is better than front slightly up to prevent sway.

I realize you say the Hensley won’t sway and your situation may be different. However in general, and to let others know, I believe this is the rule in most situations.

For fun, I posed the weight shift question to MS COPILOT AI. The change in tongue weight by calculation was less than 10 pounds. Completely negligible.

Short of doing some radical modification of my receiver in order to brace against that extreme load generated by a longer drop, I think I'm within good towing dynamics with the slight up nose.

I do want to recheck valve clearance and tire temps though!

Cheers to all,
Mark