Weight distribution set-up

[doorgunner]

Last weekend here at the vinyard we had a rodeo event. Almost all the trucks were 1 ton dually's, ford, doge, CHEVROLET, NOT ONE of them had any equalizing set up of any kind.All had the farm type coupler on the trailer. So what gives here? Mass is mass, does it matter if it is horse meat or aluminum? I'm talkin 1 tons here not 3/4 or less. DG

[nickcrowhurst]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

On a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, the rear end is higher than the front by the virtue of the rear suspension planning on having a load toosed it's way. These vehicles are also very nose heavy, a 7500 lb version carrying as much as 4500 lbs on the front wheels. I can't come up with a technical reason to put weight distribution on such a rig. Why would I want to twist even more weight to a nose heavy vehicle plus put several hundred lbs of force on my fragile trailer frame. My old 1/2 ton 'Burb needed WD, my 3/4 Dodge -no way.....

You have asked for a technical reason why a 3/4 ton Dodge Ram truck requires a WD hitch:
The engineers design the front suspension and steering to carry a heavy load in addition to the already heavy engine and frame. The engineers do not design the front suspension and steering to carry a load that is markedly LESS than that unladen weight. That is why the Dodge engineers caused the following to be inserted in the 3/4 ton Dodge Ram owner's manual:

(From the "1998 Dodge Ram Pickup Owner's Manual Cummins Turbo Diesel", Second Edition, Chrysler Corporation reference 81-326-9822, page 146 :-)

"Trailer sway control and equalizing hitch are required for tongue weights over 350 lbs. (159 kg)"

You will note the word "required", rather than "recommended". Tongue weight for my Excella is 800 pounds. Even if I were not convinced of the need for the weight distribution hitch on the grounds of safety, I would use it to protect my legal position in the event of an accident.

So there are, I suggest, technical reasons, safety reasons, financial reasons and legal reasons for the use of a weight distribution hitch with my 3/4 ton Dodge truck. Your truck may be different, of course.

Nick.

[Minnie's Mate]

A less technical reason is that when there is no weight distribution system and you hit a dip in the road, no not your brother-in-law, and the nose of the truck dips, the hitch receiver rises and the tongue rises in a see-saw manner. The converse happens with the tongue vs. rear bumper of the trailer. The two pivots are the rear axle of the truck and the axle(s) of the trailer. When the nose of the truck comes up out of the dip the whole thing reverses setting up an oscillation (porpoising). The weight distribution system will dampen this oscillation and stabilize the front end and bring stabilization to the steering axle of the rig much sooner than without the weight distribution. This is just one example of the many ways the weight distribution system benefits even a 3/4 ton or 1 ton rig.

As far as the penal hitches on the farm equipment at the rodeo, my only explanation for that is that the farm trailer is used on irregular surfaces. The penal hitches allow the tow vehicle and the trailer to move laterally independently when going over rough terrain. If you were using a traditional hitch and ball, the lateral movement could snap the ball off during that lateral movement. This is the same type the military uses for, my guess, the same reason. This is the same hitch most construction crews use on my construction projects and this is the only reason I have been able to figure out. It is not uncommon to see a 1 ton truck pulling a heavy duty trailer with a back hoe or Bobcat on it with a penal hitch connecting the two on the interstate around Atlanta between construction sites.

[doorgunner]

The couplers on all the horse trailers are captive type that drop onto a ball on the TV. These are NICE horse trailers with expensive well trained horses. Just wanted to clear that up! yes, the water trailer and some of the other farm trailers have the hitch to which you are referring.
So now I'm wondering about this "over hitching" thing that Andy refers to from time to time. Starting to make sence now. Thanks for the input Nick-have you any idea about no sway on the horse trailers? I'm still thinking mass is mass.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Ball_Park145

How should I set up the bars and chains on my weight distribution hitch? We've been towing the trailer on short trips without a weight distribution hitch, (we have a 2" rear lift kit and coil over shocks so we don't have any rear sag).
I just bought a w/d hitch and tried it out this week. I adjusted the bars/chains almost to the last link, it seemed to make the front end light on steering, did I have the bars adjusted to tight, (i hadn't noticed this w/o the w/d hitch)? Also the trailer seemed to sway more with the w/d hitch.

You "cannot" use a load equalizing hitch properly, until you take all the other stuff off, "all of it".

What you have done is "completely defeated the purpose of a load equalizing hitch."

Overloads of any kind, "MUST" not be used with any load equalizing hitch.

If overloads are used, the load equalizing hitch becomes useless.

"Any" truck scale will quickly demonstrate that.

Andy

[HiHoAgRV]

Thanks guys,
Nick - My 2006 Dodge manual does't have the caveot you quoted and I have looked far and wide for a similar requirement for the '06's. It doesn't even give guidelines for WD! The dodge/towing web site is useless

I have done the weights and found the following-
Curb wt f/r 3845/2655 Empty
GAWR f/r 4750/6010 published
Loaded As I tow F/R w/o WD f/R = 4085/4200 (rounded) and the rig is level

ok- I'm leaving next week for Pensacola with more toys (yahoo!!!) and the numbers are (calculated from knowns)

loaded w/o WD F/R 4165/4613 Guess what? I'm hooking up the WD cause it's gonna squat! (similar to when I tow a dozer) With my bars I expect the WD numbers to be F/R 4452/4323 and crap, that places me within 300 lbs of maxing out the GAWR F. I would guess the only way to approach the Max rated numbers is with a 5th wheel.

Minnies Mate -How'd you meet my brother-n-law? we call him speed bump, not dip...
I see a down side to using WD to cut out the pitching- a HUGE amount of torque is required to halt the motion. This force is transmitted into the fragile trailer frame via the WD bar mounts. If I preload to 700 lbs then hit a dip the forces on the a frame range from, um, I'll do some measurments and get back..I but I bet it tops 1/2 ton (and we give a guy a hard time about mounting 2 honda 2000's on his tongue!). Humm, anyone broken a tongue while using WD?
On a funny side, I have used WD when towing a big cabin cruiser- One should not forget to remove the bars prior to backing down the ramp, chains go loose and things fall in the lake

[nickcrowhurst]

Originally Posted by doorgunner

Thanks for the input Nick-have you any idea about no sway on the horse trailers? I'm still thinking mass is mass.

I know even less about horse boxes than I do about one ton trucks, but I would guess that, in dry weather, all that rubber on the rear axle of a 1 ton dually would help resist the sideways forces exerted by the trailer. In addition, the "average" horse box I see is shorter than the average Airstream. The longer the tail, the more it can wag the dog. That is, with a centre of mass further from the fulcrum, a greater moment can be exerted. That's just a couple of ramblings.
Nick.

[doorgunner]

Nick, I'll try and get a few pics today, I just know how you love to crunch numbers!! I'll be passing by Central Valley Feed,Farm and Trailer Supply this afternoon. Anyone need a great big honkin belt buckle? DG

[dpandorf]

Since I'm new to this RVing / towing thing I've been reading everything I can to ensure I'm doing everything correctly to ensure my family's safety.

So I'm rereading my '08 F250's manual and found this to be very interesting.

In the Power Stroke Owner's Guide Supplement I found this on the chart on page 18 and it pertains to weight distribution. (Note: My truck is rated to tow up to 12,500 pounds)

Basically the chart says that for my truck to pull a trailer with a MGTW (Max Gross Trailer Weight) I must use weight distribution. If not, I'm limited to a weight carrying weight of 6,000 pounds. Max tongue weight with WD is 1,250 pounds and without WD 600 pounds.

In the '08 Super Duty Owner's Guide on page 222 it explains the procedure in adjusting your WD hitch.

"Weight distributing hitch

When hooking up a trailer using a weight distributing hitch, always use the following procedure:

1. Park the unloaded vehicle on a level surface. With the ignition on and all doors closed, allow the vehicle to stand for several minutes so that it can level.

2. Measure the height of a reference point on the front and rear bumpers at the center of the vehicle.

3. Attach the trailer to the vehicle and adjust the hitch equalizers so that the front bumper height is within 1/2" (13 mm) of the reference point. After proper adjustment, the rear bumper should be no lighter than in Step 2.

Note: Adjusting a weight distribution hitch so the rear bumper of the vehicle is higher than it was unloaded will defeat the function of the weight distributing hitch and may cause unpredictable handling."

So I think someone commented earlier that these 3/4 & 1 ton trucks didn't need WD may need to research their own manufacturers manuals to ensure they're hooking up correctly!

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by dpandorf

Since I'm new to this RVing / towing thing I've been reading everything I can to ensure I'm doing everything correctly to ensure my family's safety.

So I'm rereading my '08 F250's manual and found this to be very interesting.

In the Power Stroke Owner's Guide Supplement I found this on the chart on page 18 and it pertains to weight distribution. (Note: My truck is rated to tow up to 12,500 pounds)

Basically the chart says that for my truck to pull a trailer with a MGTW (Max Gross Trailer Weight) I must use weight distribution. If not, I'm limited to a weight carrying weight of 6,000 pounds. Max tongue weight with WD is 1,250 pounds and without WD 600 pounds.

In the '08 Super Duty Owner's Guide on page 222 it explains the procedure in adjusting your WD hitch.

"Weight distributing hitch

When hooking up a trailer using a weight distributing hitch, always use the following procedure:

1. Park the unloaded vehicle on a level surface. With the ignition on and all doors closed, allow the vehicle to stand for several minutes so that it can level.

2. Measure the height of a reference point on the front and rear bumpers at the center of the vehicle.

3. Attach the trailer to the vehicle and adjust the hitch equalizers so that the front bumper height is within 1/2" (13 mm) of the reference point. After proper adjustment, the rear bumper should be no lighter than in Step 2.

Note: Adjusting a weight distribution hitch so the rear bumper of the vehicle is higher than it was unloaded will defeat the function of the weight distributing hitch and may cause unpredictable handling."

So I think someone commented earlier that these 3/4 & 1 ton trucks didn't need WD may need to research their own manufacturers manuals to ensure they're hooking up correctly!

You should not be using a hitch bar rating greater the 550 to 600 pounds.

If you are. you are punishing the trailer that will reward you with expensive repairs bills.

Andy

[dpandorf]

[You should not be using a hitch bar rating greater the 550 to 600 pounds.

If you are. you are punishing the trailer that will reward you with expensive repairs bills.

Andy]

Hi Andy I have the Hensley Hitch and tow a 2000 34' Limited. Hensley recommended that I use the 1400 pound bars. So are you saying that's way too much?

I have adjusted my truck tires to the weight of the axles and trailer too for not as stiff a ride but plenty of air pressure to support my actual weights and then some.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by dpandorf

[You should not be using a hitch bar rating greater the 550 to 600 pounds.

If you are. you are punishing the trailer that will reward you with expensive repairs bills.

Andy]

Hi Andy I have the Hensley Hitch and tow a 2000 34' Limited. Hensley recommended that I use the 1400 pound bars. So are you saying that's way too much?

I have adjusted my truck tires to the weight of the axles and trailer too for not as stiff a ride but plenty of air pressure to support my actual weights and then some.

You have enough rigging to tow the Queen Mary.

For your sake, and your trailers, I am being very critical of what Hensley has told you.

Hensley may know hitches, but they don't know beans about an Airstream.

An Airstream trailer, loves a soft ride. You have not provided that, as per the instructions from Hensley, and your tow vehicle. Basically, the heavier duty the tow vehicle requires a lighter duty hitch, in terms of bar ratings.

I have been with the Airstream program for 41 years. I was, for a period of 4 years, the sole field represenative for what was then Caravanner Insurance company, the insurance division of Airstream.

Amoung other things, I had the task of finding out why so many Airstream owners lost control of their rigs.

Two thirds of the reason, from over 2000 (two thousand) loss of control files,
was from rear end modifications of the tow vehicle or lack of proper rigging.
Overload springs, improperly inflated air bags or air lifts, excessive bar ratings and no sway controls as well as improper hitches, or lack thereof were those causes.

Certified truck scales were used for the study. Different tongue weights, different rating bars, etc, were all used during the study.

The result actually, confirmed that Laws of Physics works for trailer towing. We could and did, predict future losses, that in time, indeed showed up as a total loss.

In your case, your tow vehicle ratings are excessive from what could be more practical. Your hitch rating, is beyond comprehension.

Your trailer will suffer the following damages. Front end rivets inside and out will shear. Rivets in the shell inside and out will shear, especially around the entrance door. You will have trouble keeping the LPG bottles properly tied down. You will fatigue crack the front end of the shell inside and out. In time, you will also fatigue crack the A-frame, to the degree that it quite well may snap off while your towing. Statistics bear that statement out. Add to that the possibilty of improper or lack of running gear balance will increase those damages.

The heavier duty the tow vehicle, the lighter duty the hitch bar rating "must" be. Statistics prove that out for over 40 years.

What happens in your case, as the tow vehicle hits a small bump, that shock is transfered thru the rear end suspension of your tow vehicle, to the front of your trailer thru the excessive rated bars and rear springs. The correct rigging, in your case would call for a 550 to 600 pound bar rating, so that it offered some cushion from the shock that the small bump created. Now lets cover a large bump. That huge shock, because of the total lack of a cushion or resiliency, will cause the back end of your tow vehicle to rise, which momentarily defeats the purpose of the load equalizing hitch. That is the very moment, that a complete loss of control happens. It can and does happen so fast, that most of the time the rig is out of control far faster that you can implement a corrective action. It also delivers a shock to the trailer, that it was not designed to take.

The simple test that you can make, is stand on the coupler of the trailer while it is hooked up to your tow vehicle. Jump up and down. The coupler should move vertically 2 to 3 inches. In your case, I doubt that it moves at all.

I would suggest you lighten the bar rating before you make another trip.

The safety of those traveling with you, as well as your own and those that are innocent in a loss of control accident, should always be a major priority.

If you wish to call me, just you, for more details, please do so at 800-8777311.

I would gladly share additional information with you, in the hopes of saving someone an injury as well as helping you protecting your Airstream investment.

Hitch manufacturers want to sell all the heavy duty ratings that they can .

I don't sell safety, but I do promote it, based on my personal involvement with the study and experience.

It is indeed sad, of how many of our customers come in for service, who also have front end damges, caused by lack of proper running gear balance, excessive rated tow vehicles and/or excessively rated hitch bars.

Some may argue that their personal experience disagrees with the facts of the studies. So be it.

That still does not and cannot change the facts.

Andy

[dpandorf]

Thanks for taking my call today Andy. It was a pleasure talking to you. You've given me a lot to think about and I will post here on how it goes.

Thanks again.

Duane