Weight Distribution Hitch And Anti Sway Bars?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Collyn

......

By all means, then add anti-sway bars etc. They assist, but have little effect once much over 60-70 mph.

......
Collyn

Hi

If AS does not work above 70 MHP then it's a bit unclear how all those folks out west are surviving at the speeds they all seem to drive. It's certainly not because their tow vehicle weighs 2X what their trailer does .....

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Collyn

That is not an unreasonable belief. Whether travel trailer owners like (or accept) it or not, any center-axled trailer towed via an overhung is fundamentally unstable above a speed specific to that rig and its loading, etc.

By all means, then add anti-sway bars etc. They assist, but have little effect once much over 60-70 mph.

Better to have a tow that when laden is at least heavy the (sanely) laden trailer, and ideally more. If not, use a fifth-wheeler trailer (it is immune to dangerous sway).

It is extraordinary that this general issue is still being discussed some 50 years after it was fully explained in RV journals and academic papers of that era.

Collyn

Collyn- which Airstream do you own/tow and with what tow vehicle and WDH set up do you use? Theory is interesting, but reality is most of us who have "experience" towing Airstreams with various tow vehicles, share our actual knowledge from that experience here. Not sure how your suggestions help with WDH question from the OP above? Always nice to have another point of view, but if you follow this Forum, there are many, many posts on WDH and TV recommendations offering experienced opinions (some good, some not so good) to help folks with their decisions. Of course, thats just my opinion..

[Collyn]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Collyn- which Airstream do you own/tow and with what tow vehicle and WDH set up do you use? Theory is interesting, but reality is most of us who have "experience" towing Airstreams with various tow vehicles, share our actual knowledge from that experience here. Not sure how your suggestions help with WDH question from the OP above? Always nice to have another point of view, but if you follow this Forum, there are many, many posts on WDH and TV recommendations offering experienced opinions (some good, some not so good) to help folks with their decisions. Of course, thats just my opinion..

There is nothing about an Airstream that causes it to behave substantially differently from any other well-engineered travel trailer when towed by a suitable vehicle. I do not need to own one to discuss its on-road behavior - but yes I have experience of a rented one that I towed across the USA a few years ago.

Re WDHs, not all travel trailer rigs really need one - but adding one will increase the speed at which yawing may otherwise occur. It also increases its safety margin in the event of having to make a strong swerve in (say) to avoid a head-on collision.

I do have extensive experience at the UK motor industry ground (and also at GM's then Chaul End Test Centre) of swerve-testing vehicles including trucks - using outriggers to preclude rollovers.

As someone once commented, one does not necessarily need to eat an egg to tell if it is bad or not.

Collyn

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Collyn

There is nothing about an Airstream that causes it to behave substantially differently from any other well-engineered travel trailer when towed by a suitable vehicle. I do not need to own one to discuss its on-road behavior - but yes I have experience of a rented one that I towed across the USA a few years ago.

Re WDHs, not all travel trailer rigs really need one - but adding one will increase the speed at which yawing may otherwise occur. It also increases its safety margin in the event of having to make a strong swerve in (say) to avoid a head-on collision.

I do have extensive experience at the UK motor industry ground (and also at GM's then Chaul End Test Centre) of swerve-testing vehicles including trucks - using outriggers to preclude rollovers.

As someone once commented, one does not necessarily need to eat an egg to tell if it is bad or not.

Collyn

Thought so! Your not an owner nor have the years of actual experience to share towing AS's, Collyn. We're not talking about eating eggs here, ...renting an AS and towing it across the US a few years back is not "quite" what I was referring to as having years of experience towing your AS...with all do respect. Academics vs reality not the same! We have many engineers and physics experts here also who own AS's sharing their knowledge along with their actual experience.

As for WDH, you might want to look at the research/youtubes on WDH with AntiSway to understand why/how they add value to control while towing, before saying that they are not necessary. A seatbelt is not necessary either, right..until you need it in an emergency situation and it helps save your bacon.

Thanks for your perspective....

[ROBERT CROSS]

SnipQ....."Re WDHs, not all travel trailer rigs really need one"

Notice...all the poster ever mentions is WD nothing about sway.
We don't NEED an AS either but any AS will benefit from WD & sway mitigation, regardless of the sundry opinions of the masses.

Bob
🇺🇸

[thewarden]

Originally Posted by Collyn

There is nothing about an Airstream that causes it to behave substantially differently from any other well-engineered travel trailer when towed by a suitable vehicle. I do not need to own one to discuss its on-road behavior - but yes I have experience of a rented one that I towed across the USA a few years ago.

Re WDHs, not all travel trailer rigs really need one - but adding one will increase the speed at which yawing may otherwise occur. It also increases its safety margin in the event of having to make a strong swerve in (say) to avoid a head-on collision.

I do have extensive experience at the UK motor industry ground (and also at GM's then Chaul End Test Centre) of swerve-testing vehicles including trucks - using outriggers to preclude rollovers.

As someone once commented, one does not necessarily need to eat an egg to tell if it is bad or not.

Collyn

I am sorry, but I disagree that there is nothing about an Airstream that makes it tow different than any other TT. I guess this is where real-life experience towing an AS comes into play. I have towed almost every manner of TT and the difference is very noticeable. I am sure that is due to its low centre of gravity, torsion bar suspension, and superior aerodynamics than almost every other box trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cMg42sW6NU

[Collyn]

Originally Posted by thewarden

I am sorry, but I disagree that there is nothing about an Airstream that makes it tow different than any other TT. I guess this is where real-life experience towing an AS comes into play. I have towed almost every manner of TT and the difference is very noticeable. I am sure that is due to its low centre of gravity, torsion bar suspension, and superior aerodynamics than almost every other box trailer.

With respect, my post noted substantially differently from any other TT. The UK Baily product also tows exceptionally well.

Collyn

[uncle_bob]

Hi

How much time does the typical UK driver spend towing a >=10,000 pound trailer at speeds above 70 MPH with a ball hitch? Here in the US it's a very normal thing, and not just with AS products.

Bob

[CBWELL]

Having the wonderful experience of towing an Airstream ONCE across America, and not indicating the size of that unit, or any other pertinent information regarding the TV really doesn't give me much reassurance that you know what you are talking about. I see that the maximun trailer in Australia seem to be about 23 ft, and in Europe about the same. Quite different in North America!! Many of us on this forum have pulled Airstreams and and other SOB's countless thousands of miles in conditions from extreme heat to snow and ice storms and gale force winds. Theoretical or book experience does not equal real life situations or experiences. Ask any aircraft pilot with thousands of flying hours. An Airstream is signifficantly different than MOST other trailer on the road, as thewarden brought foreward in post #66. If you have experience and facts based on actual testing with North American vehicles and trailers, particularily Airstream, them your statements could be considered relevent to this thread. Up till now, all that I see from Collyn, are opinions. And everyone has one! This is mine!!

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by CBWELL

Having the wonderful experience of towing an Airstream ONCE across America, and not indicating the size of that unit, or any other pertinent information regarding the TV really doesn't give me much reassurance that you know what you are talking about. I see that the maximun trailer in Australia seem to be about 23 ft, and in Europe about the same. Quite different in North America!! Many of us on this forum have pulled Airstreams and and other SOB's countless thousands of miles in conditions from extreme heat to snow and ice storms and gale force winds. Theoretical or book experience does not equal real life situations or experiences. Ask any aircraft pilot with thousands of flying hours. An Airstream is signifficantly different than MOST other trailer on the road, as thewarden brought foreward in post #66. If you have experience and facts based on actual testing with North American vehicles and trailers, particularily Airstream, them your statements could be considered relevent to this thread. Up till now, all that I see from Collyn, are opinions. And everyone has one! This is mine!!

Agree with your sentiment also! Although, take a look at the "Grand Balogna" (sandwich model?)...could be a great lunch wagon!

https://www.ladybaileycaravans.co.uk...nde-se-bologna

No offense intended here...just some AS fun!

[Collyn]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If AS does not work above 70 MHP then it's a bit unclear how all those folks out west are surviving at the speeds they all seem to drive. It's certainly not because their tow vehicle weighs 2X what their trailer does .....

Bob

This is a limitation imposed by basic physics.

The forces involved increase with the square of the speed.

I suggest you take up with the ghost of Newton if you can contact him!

Collyn

[ROBERT CROSS]

^
Cheese and crackers got all muddy.... Not again? 😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Collyn

This is a limitation imposed by basic physics.

The forces involved increase with the square of the speed.

I suggest you take up with the ghost of Newton if you can contact him!

Collyn

Hi

Wow, so adding damping to the system won't have any effect if you want stability ... who knew ....

I'd suggest you might want to crack open a basic text book on control theory (any of them...) if that's what you are suggesting here.

Bob

[Ray Eklund]

I have relatives in the Netherlands, aka Holland. They would tow their trailer to Turkey as it was inexpensive to visit and nice weather.

Their trailer was a pop up and a small European vehicle to tow. They would spend two weeks camped. Roads in Europe, once off the Autobahn... are narrow. In the UK the roads away from the City are narrow. Even to walk along these roads... which many do on Sundays... one vehicle is dangerous... for those taking a casual walk as a group. An Airstream being towed by a F350... larger than most trucks towing cargo from town to town. You have to be a magician to travel with a honker trailer. Most made in the USA... 8 feet wide... not me.

My F350 probably weighed more and was as long...

New Zealand. Tauranga had a nice campground. I took some photographs. No fifth wheels, no Airstreams just Trailers that can travel the narrow roads. Tarps were used to expand their private space. We are spoiled and not familiar with camping options outside the USA. Right next to the ocean... beat that in Kansas. These were larger trailers towed by small vehicles.

Among the 'scenic areas'... even home owners parked their cars on part of the sidewalk as a two lane road is one lane here.

Collyn has some experience in this area. If you did 55mph in the UK outside the city... you are a Dare Devil. Paved Off the Grid National Forest roads in the USA are a good comparison. I did not need to drive and tow a trailer... as this required the ability to dodge chickens, livestock and pedestrians with courage.

Then again... British driving on the wrong side of the road are not well suited for our vehicles and trailers with doors stepping out into traffic until getting to European roads.

Our Interstate and State Highways are WIDE. Our tow vehicles and trailers are so large... non residents are shocked at the size, number and... speed. A tow vehicle towing a trailer with two ATV's in the bed of the pickup... Utah at its best. Yaaa Hoooo.

Australians board ships to go to Tasmania. Tasmania has narrow roads. The Australians had larger trailers and tow vehicles. Going 60mph in Tasmania... reckless Dare Devils, no doubt.

Suck it up. We are spoiled and loving every time we get out of town. And fast.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

I have relatives in the Netherlands, aka Holland. They would tow their trailer to Turkey as it was inexpensive to visit and nice weather.

Their trailer was a pop up and a small European vehicle to tow. They would spend two weeks camped. Roads in Europe, once off the Autobahn... are narrow. In the UK the roads away from the City are narrow. Even to walk along these roads... which many do on Sundays... one vehicle is dangerous... for those taking a casual walk as a group. An Airstream being towed by a F350... larger than most trucks towing cargo from town to town. You have to be a magician to travel with a honker trailer. Most made in the USA... 8 feet wide... not me.

My F350 probably weighed more and was as long...

New Zealand. Tauranga had a nice campground. I took some photographs. No fifth wheels, no Airstreams just Trailers that can travel the narrow roads. Tarps were used to expand their private space. We are spoiled and not familiar with camping options outside the USA. Right next to the ocean... beat that in Kansas. These were larger trailers towed by small vehicles.

Among the 'scenic areas'... even home owners parked their cars on part of the sidewalk as a two lane road is one lane here.

Collyn has some experience in this area. If you did 55mph in the UK outside the city... you are a Dare Devil. Paved Off the Grid National Forest roads in the USA are a good comparison. I did not need to drive and tow a trailer... as this required the ability to dodge chickens, livestock and pedestrians with courage.

Then again... British driving on the wrong side of the road are not well suited for our vehicles and trailers with doors stepping out into traffic until getting to European roads.

Our Interstate and State Highways are WIDE. Our tow vehicles and trailers are so large... non residents are shocked at the size, number and... speed. A tow vehicle towing a trailer with two ATV's in the bed of the pickup... Utah at its best. Yaaa Hoooo.

Australians board ships to go to Tasmania. Tasmania has narrow roads. The Australians had larger trailers and tow vehicles. Going 60mph in Tasmania... reckless Dare Devils, no doubt.

Suck it up. We are spoiled and loving every time we get out of town. And fast.

Hi

I've driven more than a bit in various parts of Europe. There isn't enough money in most national treasuries to get me to run an F350 and a 30' Classic through the typical city (ok maybe Stockholm ... ). As you point out the typical rural side road is fine for camping with your 2CV and not so much with the 54' long, 8.5' wide monster.

Very different conditions, very different rules on things like brakes. Different towing practices and lash up's. Not at all the same as North America.

Bob

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by Collyn

By all means, then add anti-sway bars etc. They assist, but have little effect once much over 60-70 mph.

Collyn

No problem. My wife yells if I go faster than that anyway.

[Collyn]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Wow, so adding damping to the system won't have any effect if you want stability ... who knew ....

I'd suggest you might want to crack open a basic text book on control theory (any of them...) if that's what you are suggesting here.

Bob

With respect if choosing to use sarcasm instead of an argument you really need to be better at it.

I did not say 'adding damping' (i.e. negative feedback in control theory textbooks) 'won't have any effect'.

You however must surely know that friction damping forces are a constant - whereas the forces to be damped increase with the square of the speed.

My engineer daughter-in-law suggests this could be addressed by using a non-Newtonian damping fluid.

Collyn

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Collyn

With respect if choosing to use sarcasm instead of an argument you really need to be better at it.

I did not say 'adding damping' (i.e. negative feedback in control theory textbooks) 'won't have any effect'.

You however must surely know that friction damping forces are a constant - whereas the forces to be damped increase with the square of the speed.

My engineer daughter-in-law suggests this could be addressed by using a non-Newtonian damping fluid.

Collyn

Hi

The point is that anti sway very much *does* work above 70 MHP and it can be set up to work quite well.

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Collyn

With respect if choosing to use sarcasm instead of an argument you really need to be better at it.

I did not say 'adding damping' (i.e. negative feedback in control theory textbooks) 'won't have any effect'.

You however must surely know that friction damping forces are a constant - whereas the forces to be damped increase with the square of the speed.

My engineer daughter-in-law suggests this could be addressed by using a non-Newtonian damping fluid.

Collyn

Collyn; curious: you said you don't own nor tow an Airstream, right? (other than that "1" time you say you drove across the US?? Does your engineer daughter in law own/tow an Airstream? I am sure many of us are not sure why you would be "trolling" us here...unless, you are here to learn something from "experienced" Airstream owners in pursuit of becoming one yourself? Pray tell your interest in our site?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Collyn

With respect if choosing to use sarcasm instead of an argument you really need to be better at it.
Collyn

“Nothing is so disappointing as unappreciated sarcasm.”
RLC

Bob
🇺🇸