WD on heavy duty truck

[lkpills]

Okay, let me ask this question.
On a F250 Superduty with trailer/towing, do you even need a WD hitch on a 23ft AS ?

Just for fun I hooked up my AS and ran up and down the freeway and side streets with no bars connected. And to tell you the truth, I couldn't feel the difference. I have 1000lb bars which I know is too stiff. Even when I put them on, I put them on the very last link.

Any thoughts?

[moosetags]

I would say yes to your question. The WD function sends a portion of the tongue weight to the front wheels of the tow vehicle. This is necessary to make sure that the steering (front) wheels of the tow vehicle have sufficient weight on them to have the proper steering input on the whole rig.

Even though you didn't experience any problems on your short freeway trip, I would not want to tow any distance without any WD function.

Brian

[deauxrite]

As was mentioned above, the idea is to equalize the load between the driving axle and the steering axle on the tow vehicle. My solution is to take the whole rig to the scales and get it weighed. If the distribution is equal..you do not need the bars. I would suggest that you can reweigh until you get it figured out.

[Mikethefixit]

Change those bars to 550 and you will then see a marked difference in the ride. I had 1000 lb bars that came with the trailer from the PO. They scared me to death and I aint afraid of nuffin. The rebound from those 1000 lb bars nearly threw us out of the seats on the way home. I switched to a set of 550 lbs bars which I already had. I use 6 links under tension with my Old Style Straight Line Reese and we get a wonderful ocean-wave type ride with our 1 ton single wheel.

[lkpills]

Thanks for the input. I agree that I need to get it weighed and get lighter weigh bars.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by lkpills

Okay, let me ask this question.
On a F250 Superduty with trailer/towing, do you even need a WD hitch on a 23ft AS ?

Probably not. The load on the rear axle of a 3/4 ton vehicle with that size AS is probably much less than 1000#. I would estimate that truck to have a GRAWR of over 6000#.
I can drop ~1100# of tongue weight on our truck, and it moves about 1" in the rear.
With a 3/4 ton truck, unless you have some other significant load in the bed, you are not really concerned about transferring weight to the front axle as you are way below any of the load ratings with this size AS.
If I really load up my spring bars, I still get very little weight transfer to the front axle...even 1100# is not enough to make a difference).

Save your money on the lighter bars, just put less tension on the bars you have (same effect) and enjoy the fact that you have this much capacity at your disposal.

You did not say what hitch you are using, I still use ours for sway control, not so much for WD (Equalizer brand).
This is the great thing about having plenty of truck; you don't spend so much time/energy trying to dial in every last pound of WD with hitch settings. Load it up, check for sway control and go.

When we had a 1/2 ton, I was forever fiddling around with hitch settings; full tanks, 1/2 tank, firewood, more beer? less beer?...no more... drop it on the hitch, little bit of tension for sway control, off we go.

Bill

[barts]

On our 3/4 ton 4x4 crewcab, the distance between the wheels is at least 3 times the distance from the hitch ball to the back axle... so 500 lbs of tongue weight affects the 4000 lbs on the front wheels by about 167 lbs - which I more than make up for sitting in one of the front seats .

- Bart

[bryanl]

And to tell you the truth, I couldn't feel the difference.

that is the measure, I think.

I know of several people who have reduced problems and increased comfort by removing load leveling. With modern pickups, the rear axle to ball distance is rather short and the diesel puts enough weight on the front axle to keep things balanced. These trucks don't need load leveling nor do they need sway control for moderate weight trailers with good handling characteristics like Airstreams have.

[tpi]

Your post is specific to the 23' but interesting my 25' SS rides nicer with the 1000 lb eaz-lift bars attached. I tow a few miles at low speed from storage yard to my house without the bars and notice more porpoising and feel the rear suspension of the truck losing control (bounding, bouncing). It just feels sloppy. I don't, however, get the feeling of a light front end. The shocks are new Bilsteins but same effect with previous shocks. Truck is F250 extended cab short bed diesel 2WD.

I carry a 200 lb portable generator in front of truck bed but not much else.

[slowmover]

What does the vehicle manufacturer tell you? (There is some garbage floating around in the above posts). FORD gives specific instructions.

The owners manual for mine (3/4T Dodge) requires a weight-distributing hitch with tongue weights of 350-lbs and above. It also states that anti-sway is recommended.

Vehicle rear spring capacity is only partly relevant to correct hitch rigging, and as to whether WDH is needed.

This topic has been gone over repeatedly, and there are many good threads to read.

If desired, one needs no permission to ignore best practice.

I can run down the road all day without WDH or anti-sway with a far larger trailer. Hardly makes it smart when the alternative (a few bucks, some study, and using a public scale) is so easily accomplished. I can flick the tail of my trailer into the other lane without trying . . that is the point of an excellent anti-sway hitch that it becomes difficult if not impossible.

A WDH, properly set up, means I am keeping the braking/handling of the vehicle as close to stock as possible. Tongue weight is only static in the parking lot. The forces at play while at speed are not. And a travel trailer is a different creature than a construction trailer loaded with bags of cement for the same weight when it comes to vehicle dynamics.

Some of the above might also lead you to believe that you will never be distracted, tired or in bad weather. And that all other drivers will leave an enormous amount of space for you to travel within.

This "magical thinking" above will be of no service to you if you are otherwise inclined to learn what works best. Negligence in this is no more hypothetical than calling WDH unproven technology.

You'll note that the Ph.D. engineers and attorneys above haven't anything other than anecdote to offer . . they aren't willing to sign off that your contemplated actions are worth their, uh, professional oath.

.

[bryanl]

re: "There is some garbage floating around in the above posts" -- now them is fightin' words! ;-) -- but really, generic allegations don't help much. What would is to identify exactly what you think is garbage and why it deserves such an epithet.

Citing appeals to authority is not a substitute for one's own measures and really doesn't help much, IMHO.

As far as those magical "Ph.D. engineers and attorneys" who don't know you, your trailer, your truck, or the context, I think this is being addressed by the SAE in the efforts to create standards for rating towing vehicles. The fact is that those 'authorities' are so often full of bull in this area that it was determined that a means was needed to evaluate their assertions. What the SAE is doing is to establish a number of criteria that can be used to measure the impact of towing a trailer on vehicle performance. Anyone can learn from what they suggest as tests.

I think that, in regards to towing, actual practice has much to offer over theory or legalities based on politics.

But then, I don't recommend ignoring manufacturer instruction or legal requirements, either. I just suggest you don't elevate them to something they aren't and realize their limitations.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by lkpills

Okay, let me ask this question.
On a F250 Superduty with trailer/towing, do you even need a WD hitch on a 23ft AS ?

Just for fun I hooked up my AS and ran up and down the freeway and side streets with no bars connected. And to tell you the truth, I couldn't feel the difference. I have 1000lb bars which I know is too stiff. Even when I put them on, I put them on the very last link.

Any thoughts?

Need? Maybe not, especially if the truck wheelbase is long and there's no cargo in the bed behind the rear axle, and there's nothing heavy added to the trailer tongue.

Even with a relatively large truck and somewhat smaller Airstream, properly sized and adjusted bars will improve the steering performance of the combination. I personally am willing to go to considerable lengths and expense to improve the steering and stopping performance of my rig. If I traveled only short distances, on familiar roads, at lower speeds in fair weather, I might feel differently.

[barts]

The thing I don't like about WD hitches is that because of their design, they place a large load on the trailer tongue when the tow vehicle pitches up, such as happens when it begins to climb a steep hill. A design where the WD torque was much less affected by the pitch angle of the TV would be a good thing. A PO of my Airstream managed to bend the tongue w/ the Reese hitch...

- Bart

[Ahab]

Originally Posted by bryanl

that is the measure, I think.

I know of several people who have reduced problems and increased comfort by removing load leveling. With modern pickups, the rear axle to ball distance is rather short and the diesel puts enough weight on the front axle to keep things balanced. These trucks don't need load leveling nor do they need sway control for moderate weight trailers with good handling characteristics like Airstreams have.

Good point!

[hampstead38]

"Need" may not be the right standard. There are any number of things which may not be necessary or legal requirements, but that are prudent. Learning about those things which are prudent to use is sometimes a matter of trial and error. When it comes to towing, the cost of errors can be significant.

As for your test jaunt, I respectfully suggest that a better test is driving under the worst possible conditions under which you will tow. When we picked up our Overlander, we towed it for 12 hours (or thereabouts) in a driving rain on the Pennsylvania & Ohio turnpikes with heavy truck traffic moving at high speeds and crosswind gusts over 50 mph.

The Airstream pulled beautifully and the Reese dual cam performed well. As Nax notes, it's not just about weight distribution, but about sway control and towing dynamics. No matter how stout your tow vehicle, a trailer can be tricky to handle under adverse/emergency conditions. And it's not that a trailer is going to toss a heavy truck like a rag doll... but a poorly handling trailer can increase the risk of a poor driver reaction.

WD hitches are not a panacea. They are a tool... and like all tools, an imperfect compromise.

[ShinyRoad]

Both my 09 and current 2011 Ford F250 Diesel have factory warning decals on the hitch. The hitch is rated at only 7,500 pounds max without a WD hitch. That's 50% of what the sales specs state, without noting the need for WD hitches. Check your truck hitch label.

The WD hitch will give you better control and braking even if you did not require it.

[dwightdi]

My long box crew cab dually with the 8.1 liter engine over the front wheels does not seem to need any bars when I tow my 26 foot 1963 Overlander. It is the tongue weight and the wheelbase of the truck that will make the difference on whether you need the bars or not. Run it for a while without the bars and see how it handles. If you feel the weight on the steering wheels is low and you have under-steer, add the bars.

[SSChanger]

Would not consider towing anything matching the weight of my TV without properly mounted tow bars. Good luck!

[lkpills]

I ended up following Andy's from Irvine RV strategy on AS's. That is, they require a soft ride, so I went with a 600lb rated Reese WD hitch and Maxxis load range C tires. What a difference. Follows along nice and quiet, nothing gets jarred out of the cupboards. My old hitch had 1000lb bars and I could feel every crack in the pavement.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by lkpills

I ended up following Andy's from Irvine RV strategy on AS's. That is, they require a soft ride, so I went with a 600lb rated Reese WD hitch and Maxxis load range C tires. What a difference. Follows along nice and quiet, nothing gets jarred out of the cupboards. My old hitch had 1000lb bars and I could feel every crack in the pavement.

Do you mean Andy from Inland RV?

Andy