WD/Anti Sway hitches: Who needs 'em?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

Our X5 is 7,200 trailer with 551 pound tongue weight as rated by BMW with the tow package. Without the tow package it's 6,000 and 551. Odd ratings.

kg.

551 lbs is 250 kg

[Billking1105]

I recently towed my 25 foot flying cloud without the weight distributing hitch for a similar reason, my GMC 2500 had no issues.

[Good Papaw]

My flight instructor used to tell me, “nothing more useless than altitude above you or fuel on the ground”. With sway and WD you don’t need it until you need it. Years ago I was driving on I40 when the guy next to me pulling a backhoe lost most of the contact with front wheels and the road. It was very exciting for about 30 seconds for both of us. He was turning lock to lock with no effect on the direction of his TV. He survived and I got out of his way. I will always have sway.

[richard5933]

Curious - all those who tow without a WD hitch because their tow vehicles are capable enough to handle it, what are your scale weights per axle as compared with and without the trailer?

In other words, since you're not towing with a WD hitch, have you calculated how much weight is taken off your steer axle when pulling the trailer on the ball?

My guess is that some who are towing on the ball are losing more contact with the ground own the steer axle than it seems. May not be an issue most of the time, but it sure will be when it comes to slick roads. Might also make that 4WD less helpful when you need it the most.

I could be wrong, but dropping the kind of tongue weight many Airstreams carry on the ball has to lighten the load on the front tires, even if it's not noticeable looking at the ride height.

[syclone93]

I guess everyone has to do whatever works for them. I personally tow with a 2004 GMC 2500HD , I have towed at least a dozen AS's without WD of any kind with zero problems.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by syclone93

I guess everyone has to do whatever works for them. I personally tow with a 2004 GMC 2500HD , I have towed at least a dozen AS's without WD of any kind with zero problems.

My statement wasn't so much whether or not you experience problems as you tow, but if anyone doing this had actually checked on the scales to see how it affects their weight on both axles. My biggest curiosity is how much weight can come off the steer axle before it's noticeable by the driver.

[Mattedfred]

Originally Posted by richard5933

My statement wasn't so much whether or not you experience problems as you tow, but if anyone doing this had actually checked on the scales to see how it affects their weight on both axles. My biggest curiosity is how much weight can come off the steer axle before it's noticeable by the driver.

Great question. I'd like to know the answer also. However, I don't care whether the driver notices or not. I'd like to know at what combination of TV and tongue weight would a WDH no longer shift any weight from the rear to the front axle, period. i.e. 3/4 ton TV and 500 lbs etc

I imagine the answer would surprise many of us.

I find it curious that many insist on sticking to the manufacturer's specifications precisely and yet they go by feel and eye ball their TV and TT setup. In a perfect world every single RV dealership would have scales and demonstrate exactly how the owner's TV and their new TT must be setup safely before the owner tows it off the lot.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by richard5933

It just dawned on me that one of the problems without an easy solution is knowing where the weight in your trailer is actually being carried.

For example, many recommendations seem to be that about 10% or more of the trailer's weight should be carried on the tongue to reduce sway. That sounds simple, right? Trailer weighs 5000 lbs so at least 500 should be on the tongue.

But what if the trailer is so poorly loaded/designed that a huge amount of the gross weight is being carried on the rear 3-4 feet of the trailer? It would still be possible to have the tongue carry 500 pounds by having an even larger amount in the front few feet of the trailer and on the tongue.

Just running this across the scales and/or using a tongue scale would give the impression that all is good. But it's not. There would be no way to know the problem existed without having the ability to take weight measurements at various points along the frame.

Ideally the bulk of the weight should be low and centered over the axles, with enough advantage given to the front of the axles to produce the 10% tongue weight. But with front bedrooms and rear baths, and storage at both ends, it's likely that poor loading contributes to many of the accidents more than the hitch setup.

The thing I think you’ve overlooked is that, by putting a huge amount of weight in the rear of the trailer, you effectively reduce the tongue weight. Thus the 10-15% of the trailer weight being on the tongue is indeed a good guideline. I’m not advocating a concentration of weight at the extreme ends of the trailer, however. A well designed trailer like an AS has the heavy stuff near or over the axles.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by richard5933

I could be wrong, but dropping the kind of tongue weight many Airstreams carry on the ball has to lighten the load on the front tires, even if it's not noticeable looking at the ride height.

You are correct. Regardless of how stiff the TV springs are or how heavy the truck frame is, dropping 1000 lbs on the ball will reduce the weight on your front wheels and can cause handling problems that may not show up until you have to make a sharper than usual maneuver. That’s why airbags are no substitute for WD equipment.

[Powerrunner]

Originally Posted by Bob May

We purchased our airstream last January. We live in Michigan and purchased it in Georgia. We had no weight distribution or anti sway device - just Reese hitch on a 2019 GMC 2500HD duramax. The trip home from Georgia was very scary. I have pulled various bumper pull campers with nothing but a Reese hitch for years. But pulling this airstream was different. It swayed and felt very loose. It was not a comfortable drive home as I was constantly monitoring and adjusting. When I got home we went to the Grand Rapids Michigan airstream dealer to buy some goodies for our trailer. We asked the salesman about an anti sway hitch. He showed us some he had on display. He also said I have a used Hensley we just took off a trailer we took in on trade. He stated he was not a Hensley dealer and did not want to include it on the lot. He offered me the whole hitch for $250.
I looked at it and thought it l looked very big and bulky as I had never seen or heard of one before. I told him I was not interested. That night I did some google searches and realized the mistake I had made. I called the next day and told him we wanted it. I got it home and installed it in the trailer. We did several trips in 2021 - Florida in March, Rocky Mountain NP in June, Michigan Upper Peninsula in August and Hocking hills Ohio in early October. The results of the hitch - 100% elimination of sway. It’s a dream to pull I will not be without it.

After experiencing a white knuckle trip, I ended up buying a Hensley and can say absolutely no sway under any conditions. This is the only way we will travel. My TV is an F250 pulling a 30’ International. Good choice.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

You are correct. Regardless of how stiff the TV springs are or how heavy the truck frame is, dropping 1000 lbs on the ball will reduce the weight on your front wheels and can cause handling problems that may not show up until you have to make a sharper than usual maneuver. That’s why airbags are no substitute for WD equipment.

Sure, but if my truck specs say it will handle a 2000 pound tongue weight, I would expect the loss of front wheel weight is engineered to be acceptable.

I’m not getting rid of my ProPride, I’m commenting that commercial users never seem to use any WD or anti sway equipment.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

Sure, but if my truck specs say it will handle a 2000 pound tongue weight, I would expect the loss of front wheel weight is engineered to be acceptable.



I’m not getting rid of my ProPride, I’m commenting that commercial users never seem to use any WD or anti sway equipment.

I guess one difference is that commercial drivers are commercial drivers. And any towing heavy enough loads are required to go across the scales, get random roadside inspections, and have a CDL with all the extra training which goes with that.

[bel73]

Just because someone is a commercial driver does not automatically make them a good driver. No extra training is needed to obtain a CDL either. Just pass a written and driving test, off ya go!

[sarge12212]

I'm a commercial driver. We make it look easy because our TV is heavy and the trailer is balanced correctly. The same physics apply though. If you tail-load a bobcat or a backhoe, you're going to have a bad day.
I will say this about pulling Airstreams. Because of side winds and heavy truck pressure waves, you will ALWAYS need sway control. Depending on the weight and towing capacity of your TV, you will NOT always need a WD hitch. You should always feel comfortable with your set-up. If that means using a WD hitch while pulling your 19ft AS with a 1 ton duelly, well ok, do that. Your comfort level is more important than anyone else's opinion.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

Sure, but if my truck specs say it will handle a 2000 pound tongue weight, I would expect the loss of front wheel weight is engineered to be acceptable.

I’m not getting rid of my ProPride, I’m commenting that commercial users never seem to use any WD or anti sway equipment.

Hi

Nope ...

If you look into it, the assumption made by the manufacturer is that "weight is distributed in the vehicle". My F350 came with a sheet that went into a lot of detail about just where the loading needed to be to make it acceptable.

Also keep in mind that the specs on the axles simply tell you if you will or will not break the axle. They don't tell you much else. There are a lot of numbers and no one of them is the whole story.

Bob

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by bel73

Just because someone is a commercial driver does not automatically make them a good driver. No extra training is needed to obtain a CDL either. Just pass a written and driving test, off ya go!

I think you just made my point.

How do you think CDL holders pass that written test and driving test? The do it because they've received training. I've been through the process, and I can tell you that there is most certainly training involved beyond what a non-commercial license holder receives.

Remember that most RVs are being pulled and/or driven by people holding the same license that's required to drive a compact car, and that is nothing like driving a 1-ton truck pulling a 10,000-lb trailer down the highway.

On top of the training which is typically required just to be able to pass the written and driving test, most companies hiring CDL drivers will have a training process of their own before their driver comes off probationary status. I was required to fulfill XX number of hours and XX number of miles with a trainer sitting in the passenger seat before being allowed to operate solo.

[thewarden]

Originally Posted by bel73

Just because someone is a commercial driver does not automatically make them a good driver. No extra training is needed to obtain a CDL either. Just pass a written and driving test, off ya go!

So, by what miracle do they know the answers to the written test, or the requirements of the driving test in order to obtain their CDL. They must LEARN this somehow.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by thewarden

So, by what miracle do they know the answers to the written test, or the requirements of the driving test in order to obtain their CDL. They must LEARN this somehow.

…the old boy I was riding with when I was 14..told me he is tired ,you run it..and down the road we went with a load of pipe…that was 1961…and I did it for 54 years…and no accidents….

[bel73]

I too have a class A CDL license. I went to the local DMV picked up a CDL book and read it. Took the written and driving test and now have my license. NO special class or training here.

Again, a CDL does not automatically make someone a highway hero. Every day I get to see highway zeros driving big trucks around here.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by bel73

I too have a class A CDL license. I went to the local DMV picked up a CDL book and read it. Took the written and driving test and now have my license. NO special class or training here.

Again, a CDL does not automatically make someone a highway hero. Every day I get to see highway zeros driving big trucks around here.

Never said anyone was a 'highway hero'. My point was merely to point out that commercial drivers receive training above what most other drivers receive.

Some go to a training facility to get the extra knowledge. You did it yourself. But your comment supports my point - you got the book and read it. Which would mean that you've got information most 'regular' license holders don't have.