Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-09-2012, 06:52 PM   #161
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,884
Images: 5
Yes, but like he says if you were in a left hand turn and the left bar didn't unload, you would be trying to turn the TV over on it's right side with the left bar. His theory is in a left turn, due to the downward tilt, you are unloading the left bar, as it is swinging in an upward arc, so there is progressively less "trying to roll the TV over. At the same time the right bar is swinging in a downward arc, increasing its force more and more down the centerline of the vehicle as the turn progresses.

He maintains that the effort of proper setup is to try and keep that weight distribution force as close to down the centerline of the vehicle as possible.

I don't know if I made it any more clear, or just muddied it up!
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 07:01 PM   #162
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
The weight distribution loads are transferred through the frame so they are never down the center of the tow vehicle.
__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 07:09 PM   #163
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,884
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff
The weight distribution loads are transferred through the frame so they are never down the center of the tow vehicle.
It's an imaginary centerline, as opposed to the centerline of force being pointed...like at the right rear door area, trying to twist the vehicle over. If the force were down the centerline of the vehicle, it would mean that the force was equal on both frame rails with no twist induced in those frame rails due to loading of the inside WD bar.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 07:22 PM   #164
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
So the ball being tilted, even though it is a sphere, will really make THAT much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of writing for very little functional difference. Just my opinion. But, I have known him for a long time so I've seen just about everything in the name of "proper" set up.
__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 07:28 PM   #165
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,884
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff
So the ball being tilted, even though it is a sphere, will really make THAT much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of writing for very little functional difference. Just my opinion. But, I have known him for a long time so I've seen just about everything in the name of "proper" set up.
It's not the ball tilt that matters, it's the tilt of the bar mounts, be they trunnion pockets in the case of Reese, or the sockets in the case of Eq.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 07:31 PM   #166
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
It's not the ball tilt that matters, it's the tilt of the bar mounts, be they trunnion pockets in the case of Reese, or the sockets in the case of Eq.

Got it... thanks.


-
__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 07:39 PM   #167
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,884
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff View Post
So the ball being tilted, even though it is a sphere, will really make THAT much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of writing for very little functional difference. Just my opinion. But, I have known him for a long time so I've seen just about everything in the name of "proper" set up.
Sean, I will say this. Like every thing Andrew does, it's "pushing the envelope". I agree with his analysis, but I don't adjust as radically as he does. He mentions using ALL the available tilt and most if not all of the chain links. I don't go that far. Depending on how sloppy the receiver to shank interface is I use 5 or 6 links under tension and maybe 3/4 of the available tilt, depending on bed load, tongue weight, TV model, etc.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 07:54 PM   #168
Moderator
 
HiHoAgRV's Avatar

 
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,873
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwoodguy View Post
...Since the question involves ride harshness, the most obvious instrument to apply first would be an accelerometer or tri-axial shock recorder. The latter being rather expensive, but the former might be as cheap as an $2 iPAD app. Ride harshness is exhibited as shocks in the 3-axis of movement. Higher G forces mean harsher ride. When the the rig traverses chuck holes and other road impediments, the harsher ride will generate spikes with higher G-force and or longer periods. It might be quite possible to simply graph a 5 minute ride over some course using first one bar, and then the other. (At the moment I realize that the two bars are not available for the same head, but that's a practical thing to be solved for the test).

I would imagine hard mounting the instrument in the front most part of the trailer. ... I know you can get a tri-axial recorder of industrial quality for about $800, but that's a bit steep for an experiment like this.

It sure would be cool to do though, wouldn't it? I think it would really put a nice foundation on the whole issue.

EDIT: Well - it looks like there are several apps for the Android. I have a Galaxy Tab, so I will see if I can find a cheap and useful app using the built-in accelerometer. I'm concerned if there is enough dynamic range in such a device, but we'll see!
I can offer some input here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f437...tml#post595921

I used a...well...it cost 4X more than the trailer...equipment, gathers 100hz data points...the equipment is well up to the task

I mounted it directly over the axle to see the effect of bar stiffness on the trailers suspension...stiff bars make for a stiff ride, right?

One run with NO bars (the truck tail cycles up and down like a bronco) followed by a run with 1000lb bars cranked up tight...

Within the limits of experimental deviation...no difference in the ride due to transfering weight to the trailers axles.

It's been a while, I may gather more data when I swap axles on the Overlander...

Some general thoughts...these trailers have incredibly stiff suspension. We all agree an axle drops 2" when unloaded...6000lb trailer/2 axles = 750 lbs/inch of spring rate! For a visual...get two "BIG" friends and plop them in the back seat of your car...squat city. Then march them into your stream and even try to measure how far the trailer drops...
__________________
Hi Ho Silver RV! Vernon, Sarah, Mac the Border Collie(RIP) -
A honkin' long 34' named AlumaTherapy https://www.airforums.com/forums/f20...num-54749.html
and a 26' '63 Overlander, Dolly https://www.airforums.com/forums/f10...ome-71609.html
HiHoAgRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 08:14 PM   #169
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,884
Images: 5
HiHo, I had never seen that thread before! Could you summarize you thoughts based on those tests. I don't know much about those instruments and frankly can't make heads or tails out of them. Are you saying that spring bar vs. no spring bar showed little or no difference at the AS axle? So would it follow that a 600# bar vs. a 1000# makes no difference on high frequency low amplitude road inputs? Or am I not understanding your conclusions?
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 09:05 PM   #170
4 Rivet Member
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Eureka , California
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV View Post
I can offer some input here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f437...tml#post595921

I used a...well...it cost 4X more than the trailer...equipment, gathers 100hz data points...the equipment is well up to the task

I mounted it directly over the axle to see the effect of bar stiffness on the trailers suspension...stiff bars make for a stiff ride, right?

One run with NO bars (the truck tail cycles up and down like a bronco) followed by a run with 1000lb bars cranked up tight...

Within the limits of experimental deviation...no difference in the ride due to transfering weight to the trailers axles.
If you are talking about measuring shocks, that's what I would predict, and that's what I think the thrust of this thread has tried to show. Bars don't provide any means of modulating ride harshness in the trailer because the coupler and ball are already sustained in direct contact. You can't get more direct than "direct."
redwoodguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 01:58 PM   #171
1 Rivet Member
 
msipek's Avatar
 
2012 28' Flying Cloud
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8
My TV is a 2009 Chevy 3/4 ton crew cab pick-up. I have a 2012 Flying Cloud 28 with a factory spec tongue weight of 976 lbs. I have the old style Reese hitch i.e. no built in sway control. I use a friction bar for sway control. From Phoenix, AZ to JC, I used 1,000 lb. bars. I went there for some warranty work. From JC back to Phoenix, I used 750 lb. bars. The bars are interchangeable in the hitch head.

I have read all the comments on this thread. I believe that Inland Andy and the physics theory are both correct. They are not at odds with each other. I have an explanation that reconciles both of them.

My unhitched truck has a natural rake to it i.e. the front-end sits lower than the back-end. The back-end is light and stiff over bumps. When I hitch-up with 1,000 lb. bars, the trailer weight is distributed to the front axle of the truck and the truck maintains the unhitched stance. I believe this stance translates to a rough ride for the trailer. When I use 750 lb. bars, the back-end of the truck lowers and I am using more of the truck suspension to provide a softer ride for the trailer. The bars do not provide anymore absorption of the rough ride consistent with the physics theory but the truck suspension does because the 750 lb. bars are not transferring as much weight to the front axle. I believe the rating on the bars indicates the maximum tongue weight that they can effectively transfer to the front axle and not the breaking point for the bars.

I use six chain links under tension for both sets of bars. I tried seven links under tension with the 1,000 lb. bars and the ride in the truck was way too rough.

The sway control and steering are similar with both sets of bars. On the way to JC, I popped two rivets. On the way back none popped. However, the clothes fell off the hangers in the shirt closets with both sets of bars.
msipek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 02:42 PM   #172
Jack Dog in So Cal
 
2013 16' Sport
Orange , California
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 138
Images: 5
Hitch

RWG:

We just purchased our 2013 Bambi 16' Sport from Southwest Coaches in Corona, CA. back in August.

We recently returned from our first trip out with the AS to Yosemite National Park with the return trip down Hwy 395 in the Eastern Sierra.

The dealer sold us the same set up and reccomends it to all buyers of their coaches. I was sold after my mobil RV guy Brett gave the product his thumbs up. He's been servicing all our trailers since our first one back in 2002. They are careful to adjust the system so not to over torque the settings so you don't have issues with rivets popping on the trailer.

We towed a 17' Casita before the AS that used the Valley sway control and equalizer bars w/ chains.

I can't tell you how much happier we are with the new set up. No more chains to adjust, no more separate sway bar to install. It takes me no more than a few minutes to get everything set up and go.

I use white lithium grease on the bars and ball. Much less messy than the old liquid grease. When we get back home I just use an old car towel and wipe the grease off the ends of the bars and the ball and then reapply when we get ready to go on the next trip. I even use the original box the bars came in to store them. Sure the hitch is a bit heavy but I can't even think of the alternative if I was to tow without it.

Anyway, the first trip was 1,000 miles with lots of winding mountain roads and we hit some fierce cross winds coming down 395. The Casita towed like a dream and now with this set up our AS tows even better!!!!

The only thing I had to get used to was the extra width of the AS. The Casita was only 6 1/2 feet wide and the AS is 8 feet wide. It takes a little more attention to stay within the white lines of the freeways and highways.

Jack Dog
in So Cal
JackDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trip Report: Valley of the Gods, UT mello mike On The Road... 2 01-01-2012 08:08 PM
Trip Report: The Apache Trail, AZ mello mike On The Road... 1 12-26-2011 05:21 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.