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LivLoveLaugh · 07-01-2017, 12:06 PM

While on the road I noticed that the passager front thread forming bolt (item 6&7 on the diagram) was missing. I bought a 1/2-13 replacement bolt however the threads on the A frame are stripped. The treadforming bolts do not go through the frame.
My questions: can I drill completely through the frame and install longer bolts?
Would tightening to the recommended 75ft/lbs possibly bend the A frame?
Has this happen to anyone else and what was your solution?

LivLoveLaugh · 07-01-2017, 01:23 PM

passenger not passager sorry

Ruscal · 07-01-2017, 01:24 PM

75 lbs would likely crush the tube. You could go up a size and switch to fine thread. Bushings can be used, inserted from a OD hole on the outside of the tube, trimmed flush to the surface. Welding is another option. Helicoils are a hassle to install, but work well. Several solutions available depending on your skillset and tool availability.
Russ

OTRA15 · 07-01-2017, 01:25 PM

Any chance of tapping out the stripped hole for the next size bolt, even if you have to switch to metric? Personally I would not drill out the tube frame, in order to through-bolt.

LivLoveLaugh · 07-01-2017, 01:53 PM

OTRA15: tapping out to the next size bolt is an option, but I'm sure this will happen again. Why are you against drilling through the frame?

Ruscal: actually the revised instructions use a 11/16 Rivet Nut (similar to a helicoil) inserted into the frame. But now we're talking a much larger hole and if that strips out how much larger could you go.

Thanks for the replys, may try tapping out to larger size bolt.

OTRA15 · 07-01-2017, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivLoveLaugh

OTRA15: tapping out to the next size bolt is an option, but I'm sure this will happen again. Why are you against drilling through the frame?
. . .

Because it would line up two holes through the steel tubing frame [I am assuming this is a rectangular steel tube section, correct?], which the designers did not intend to have there. Maybe the thing is over-engineered enough to avoid a problem, but there are very high forces right at this point of the tongue, as the trailer bounces down the road.

Also, as suggested earlier, the 75 ft/lbs of loading for the new bolt might compress the steel tube, as it was not spec'd for this kind of load.

Would a through-bolt solution conceivably work, and hold up for years and years? Yes -- maybe.

Or -- maybe not.

A structural failure of the tongue frame steel tubing would be expensive to fix, even assuming it did not cause a catastrophic structural failure and an accident possibly.

jdalrymple · 07-01-2017, 03:03 PM

I don't see any poblem with drilling and bolting through.

Two 3/8 holes are not going to reduce strength of the square tubing any appreciable amount.

Regards,

JD

markdoane · 07-01-2017, 03:14 PM

I think the rivet nut solution is the best.

If those break out or come loose over time you can still take it to a welder and tack the bracket to the frame.

featherbedder · 07-01-2017, 04:07 PM

IMO where drilling thru square frame at near bottom not prob. with collapse or crush of frame as strong point at side at bottom, if did any of above could plate both sides spreading span longer, simple tack weld would hold plates for ever

LivLoveLaugh · 07-01-2017, 05:08 PM

Oddly talking to another member in our unit. He has the same problem with the same bolt location. We ordered rivet nuts, but the thought of drilling a 11/16" to accept the rivet nut for the 1/2-13 thread forming bolts just doesn't sit well with me. That and I never had much success with rivet nuts.

cliffcharb · 07-01-2017, 05:52 PM

I've installed two of these systems in the last year, getting to install another on my brothers trailer next weekend. The rivet nuts work as intended, with the exception of actually getting the bolt torqued to 75 ft lbs. The supplied nuts are supposed to collapse but start to spin before that happens. On my trailer I have 1 bolt that only has about 40 ft lbs but it has held in for over a year. On my brother in laws trailer we were able to torque all of them to about 60 ft lbs.
When we install on my brothers trailer next weekend we plan on drilling with the next size smaller bit to see if it gives the nut more bite.

Bob662 · 07-01-2017, 07:50 PM

Rivnuts generally aren't completely flush with the surface--they have a lip. Tack welding sure seems an easy solution.

Ruscal · 07-02-2017, 10:40 AM

On a new installation you have to be careful to not strip the self tapping bolt by over torquing. Yours may have been stripped letting the bolt wallow in the hole. A loose fastener will ruin the threads.
If installing new rivnuts be sure to use star lock washers to retain the bolts. Locktite is not recommended on rivnuts due to removability issues. (they can spin)
Russ

Ruscal · 07-02-2017, 10:50 AM

Most people don't have a rivnut clinching tool to properly install them. A 1/2" one is a big beefy tool. When properly clinched the rivnut will be able to accept proper torquing. A little anti seize compound will help get there. If you are trying to clinch the fastener by tightening the bolt the rivnut may spin before reaching spec. You can try the anti seize to help get them to clinch better if you don't have the tool. Always use star lock washers to retain bolts if not lock wiring.
Russ

MelGoddard · 07-02-2017, 11:55 AM

I was NOT going to bother replying to any more posts on this forum, as it seems to be a waste of time; what with 'CAPCHA' swallowing and disposing of my answers. However.........................

This post hit a nerve with me; as I have a complete Reese Duo-Cam set in my garage, unused, because some 'idiot-child' at my dealer, stripped all the threads on those brackets, and now I can't use the hitch.
I could, I suppose, use Heli-coils, to repair, but I don't trust them.
The Dealer removed the Reese and gave me an 'Ezy-Lift' which seems to work o.k. He uses one on his demos, and pick-ups from the factory.

Some, but not all, of those ideas above are workable; and if you do use Heli-Coils, I would lock them into the frame with epoxy, and let harden before reinstalling the 'thread forming' screws.
B.T.W. Reese calls for 50 ft. lb. dry torque on those bolts.
Of course, the majority of auto and R.V. mechanics use those air guns to hammer the bolts home. They don't recognize that a torque wrench is a precision tool for precision work. (When I was working, I was required to have mine 'certified' every six months.)

[Anyone out there require a slightly used, almost new Reese Hitch?]

LivLoveLaugh · 07-02-2017, 12:21 PM

Thanks to all that replied to my post.
I'm going to contact the people at the old Western Pa. Airsteam where I purchased and had the hitch installed (unfortunately they are no longer in the Airstream business). However, they are closed for the holiday and the earliest I can contact them would be Wednesday. We're leaving to attend the international in Escanaba sometime next week and need to resolve this issues be for our trip.
Again thanks

Larry C · 07-02-2017, 12:53 PM

If it were mine, id's take it to an experienced welder, have him weld the messed up hole shut and redrill it. Problem solved
Larry

featherbedder · 07-02-2017, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard

I was NOT going to bother replying to any more posts on this forum, as it seems to be a waste of time; what with 'CAPCHA' swallowing and disposing of my answers. However.........................

This post hit a nerve with me; as I have a complete Reese Duo-Cam set in my garage, unused, because some 'idiot-child' at my dealer, stripped all the threads on those brackets, and now I can't use the hitch.
I could, I suppose, use Heli-coils, to repair, but I don't trust them.
The Dealer removed the Reese and gave me an 'Ezy-Lift' which seems to work o.k. He uses one on his demos, and pick-ups from the factory.

Some, but not all, of those ideas above are workable; and if you do use Heli-Coils, I would lock them into the frame with epoxy, and let harden before reinstalling the 'thread forming' screws.
B.T.W. Reese calls for 50 ft. lb. dry torque on those bolts.
Of course, the majority of auto and R.V. mechanics use those air guns to hammer the bolts home. They don't recognize that a torque wrench is a precision tool for precision work. (When I was working, I was required to have mine 'certified' every six months.)

[Anyone out there require a slightly used, almost new Reese Hitch?]

I have used prob. thousand helicoil in steel, aluminum, all kinds of matl. many sizes metric and US fine and coarse threads in off road racing, chain saws and other items. If drilled specified size for coils using, and using installation tools, should never come loose and never used any kind of epoxy etc. never had one fail and racing is extreme usage. Thin matl. not so good has to be at least thickness of length of coil. I don't no what poster is referring to thread forming screws as helicoil does not use.

MelGoddard · 07-02-2017, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by featherbedder

I have used prob. thousand helicoil in steel, aluminum, all kinds of matl. many sizes metric and US fine and coarse threads in off road racing, chain saws and other items. If drilled specified size for coils using, and using installation tools, should never come loose and never used any kind of epoxy etc. never had one fail and racing is extreme usage. Thin matl. not so good has to be at least thickness of length of coil. I don't no what poster is referring to thread forming screws as helicoil does not use.

"Thread Forming 'Bolts'" Came with the hitch from Reese.
They are a hardened bolt that has the threads in a shallow triangle, that actually 'forms' the threads in the drilled hole in the A-frame.
Premier Fastener Corp. (Cleveland) had some in their line of bolts.

Mat'l. thickness of the frame is one of the reasons that I don't trust the 'Heli-Coil'.
"Riv-nuts" sound good, but "Lord knows where to buy them in Canada, and He ain't tellin'."

LivLoveLaugh · 07-02-2017, 05:09 PM

[QUOTE] ["Riv-nuts" sound good, but "Lord knows where to buy them in Canada, and He ain't tellin'."/QUOTE]

Actually I was able to order Rivet nuts and spare thread forming bolts from E-Trailer. However, I'm not sure I want to drill a larger hole to accommodate the rivet nuts.