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Old 05-23-2017, 12:16 PM   #1
UnklJoe
 
2015 28' Flying Cloud
Box Elder , South Dakota
Join Date: Oct 2016
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Ram 3500 Self-leveling Air Bags and WD Hitches

I just upgraded to a diesel Ram 3500 Laramie to tow our 28FC. I use an Equalizer weight distribution hitch. The tongue weight of the trailer is about 930 lbs (using a Sherline scale). I have some questions/concerns about the self-leveling air bag features of the truck and how that will work with the WD hitch. I have only had occasion to tow it once, and I have ordered a new receiver with a longer shank because the hitch on this truck is much higher than my previous truck.

On this one tow, I lowered the hitch ball on the receiver shank as far as it would go and the nose of trailer was high when coupled BEFORE starting the truck; the hitch ball was about 2-1/2 inches higher than the trailer coupler when the trailer was level (front and rear trailer frame measurements to the ground equal). Measuring the front and rear of the AS frame to the ground when coupled--and before starting the truck--the front was about 17 inches off the ground, and the rear was about 14 inches off the ground. I was squeezed for time and didn't measure trailer heights after starting the truck, when the self-leveling air bag system should have kicked in.

When towing the trailer on the freeway, the ride of the truck was very stiff--stiffer in my opinion than without the trailer. (The 3500 actually rides fairly nice for a 1-ton truck on the freeway without the trailer, and I was thinking it would actually ride nicer when towing the trailer....)

My questions are: 1) What have other 2500/3500 owners with self-leveling air bags and weight distribution hitches (especially the Equalizer brand) done when setting-up their hitches? Do 2500/3500 owners with self-leveling air bags feel the ride in the truck is smoother or rougher when towing?

2) How should I be setting up the Equalizer hitch for a truck with self-leveling air bags? I've ordered the longest shank available on a 2-1/2-inch receiver from Equalizer which only gives me about 2 inches more of drop, which is slightly less than what I need to start adjusting the hitch (uncoupled trailer ball at the same height as the trailer coupler when trailer is level).

Thanks!
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:45 PM   #2
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2016 30' International
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I DON'T have airbags but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess what's happening.

It's my understanding that there is some driver interaction to set the airbags when connected to a trailer. Letting the truck auto-level with the trailer attached is going to result in higher air-pressure in the airbags = rougher ride.

Hopefully an expert will weigh in - but I'm guessing you should start the truck and auto-level before lowering the trailer onto the hitch. Set your hitch drop and WD based on that height.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:53 AM   #3
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Hi there, I have a Ram 2500 with the factory airbags as well. I haven't used it on the 27' international AS yet but this July we will be racking up the miles with it. I too am wondering this answer, there should be a dash button that says " Alt trailer height" and by engaging that it lowers the rear ride height approximately 1" and it seems to ride a bit stiffer once that's on. I'm sure it will still load balance and such but it should hold that close to that ride height. Hope this helps and looking forward to hearing from others who have this setup.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:01 AM   #4
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I have a RAM 1500 with the air suspension system and use a Blue Ox WD hitch. When setting up the first time I followed the instructions in the truck owner's manual. It took a few tries but once I got it set correctly (trailer level with the front of the truck returned to the original height) the truck will come back to the correct height regardless of the height of the hitch when I hook up.

This may or may not apply to the 2500 or 3500. I suggest you look at the owners manual.
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Old 01-21-2021, 01:16 PM   #5
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I did not see an answer to your question. Assuming that since that was a few years ago you have figured this out since then. I just upgraded from a RAM1500 to a RAM3500. I have the equal-i-zer WD hitch and a 27FB. The receiver on my 3500 is the same height as my 1500 so the setup should be the same but I am wondering how the auto leveling will impact the adjustment of the hitch and the hitch the load/unload process. Would love any input you have learned along the way.
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:24 AM   #6
UnklJoe
 
2015 28' Flying Cloud
Box Elder , South Dakota
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Yes, the subject of two vehicles or weight distribution hitches makes people come out of the woodwork with all manner of suggestions and cautions and no-no's.

But when asking about other owners with similar trucks/hitches go about setting up a WD hitch on a truck with self-leveling air bags it's pretty ... quiet.

With the truck set for the Normal Ride Height and the long shank and the ball set at the lowest position the truck after hitching and driving for a mile or so the truck was almost level and the front of the trailer was probably an inch higher than I thought it should be making the nose of the trailer higher than the back of the trailer by about 1-1-1/2 inches. The ride was pretty good, and when I checked the fender heights above the front and read fenders and the tops of the tires I found the front fenders were about 3/4-inch above the level when there was no trailer connected.

I tried the Alternate Trailer Height setting, and I do feel the truck rode a little rougher. and the front of the trailer was still a little high and the front of the truck was still about 3/4-inch high then when no trailer was hitched.

So I added a washer to the Equalizer head and that pretty much leveled everything out--front of the truck was maybe 1/8-inch higher than when no trailer was connected to the truck, and the front of the trailer was probably only about 1/4-3/8 inch higher than would be required to level the trailer. And, again, this was at Alternate Trailer Height.

The ride was VERY stiff. I have an Air-Safe bag and I was still feeling every pothole and every highway stress joint and nearly every bridge joint. Things in the trailer got bounced around pretty good (I drove I-80 this past summer and through Illinois and Indiana and parts of Pennsylvania it was painful, especially knowing I was paying to drive these so-called freeways).

So, near the end of my trip I decided to remove the washer I had added to my Equalizer hitch and it has made a HUGE difference in ride. HUGE. The trailer doesn't get bounced around; the Air-Safe doesn't transmit the potholes and road joints. I even tried Normal Trailer Height and while the trailer and truck weren't "level" they weren't off level by much and the truck rode nicely, though it still rides nicer in Alternate Trailer Height.

My plan for this spring is to install lifts on the AS, provided I can buy properly rated jack stands that haven't been recalled. I'm a little nervous about doing this (since I'll be doing it myself), but I'm hoping the extra 3 inches of trailer height will help with getting everything level. I don't want to buy an even longer shank for the truck--it's pretty low to the ground as it is and it has drug going into/out of some fuel stops and campground sites.

But, I am disappointed in the lack of replies from others who have self-leveling suspensions on their trucks. It's not the end of the world, just disappointing. (Maybe I have described my problem(s) very well, and maybe a couple of pictures would have helped. But, I'm not a big picture-taker--but I am getting better about that with my new smarter-than-me-phone.)
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:32 AM   #7
UnklJoe
 
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By the way, my truck starts auto-leveling as soon as I put the trailer coupler on the ball--with or without the truck running. It mostly just seems to return the rear of the truck to the height it was before the trailer was put on the ball, but not exactly the same height. The front of the truck is always a little higher after the self-leveling is complete--and I don't check heights until I've driven a mile or so with some turns and a couple of small hills and short grades.

Since I have a small box (because of the RAMBOXES) I can't put a lot of weight in the back of the truck so I have never heard the self-leveling system operating when loading/unloading the back of the truck (which is mostly the generators (which I put all the way forward), lawn chairs, an air compressor, and some outdoor rugs, maybe a little firewood.

I think my next research foray will be to go to the RAM websites to see if there's any information/suggestions/explanations of self-leveling there.
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:44 AM   #8
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You don’t need heavy duty jack stands to install the lift kit...I backed the trailer up on blocks to raise it 3 “ so I could move around under the trailer easier....remove the wheels from 1 axle and install the lift kit on this axle after scribing an alignment line.... a bottle jack was used and a couple lite weight aluminum harbor freight stands to support the axle. Which isn’t heavy...the one axle supports the trailer just fine...and I left mine hooked up so she don’t move...my 2500 ram has coil springs..
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Old 01-24-2021, 10:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnklJoe View Post
Yes, the subject of two vehicles or weight distribution hitches makes people come out of the woodwork with all manner of suggestions and cautions and no-no's.

But when asking about other owners with similar trucks/hitches go about setting up a WD hitch on a truck with self-leveling air bags it's pretty ... quiet.

With the truck set for the Normal Ride Height and the long shank and the ball set at the lowest position the truck after hitching and driving for a mile or so the truck was almost level and the front of the trailer was probably an inch higher than I thought it should be making the nose of the trailer higher than the back of the trailer by about 1-1-1/2 inches. The ride was pretty good, and when I checked the fender heights above the front and read fenders and the tops of the tires I found the front fenders were about 3/4-inch above the level when there was no trailer connected.

I tried the Alternate Trailer Height setting, and I do feel the truck rode a little rougher. and the front of the trailer was still a little high and the front of the truck was still about 3/4-inch high then when no trailer was hitched.

So I added a washer to the Equalizer head and that pretty much leveled everything out--front of the truck was maybe 1/8-inch higher than when no trailer was connected to the truck, and the front of the trailer was probably only about 1/4-3/8 inch higher than would be required to level the trailer. And, again, this was at Alternate Trailer Height.

The ride was VERY stiff. I have an Air-Safe bag and I was still feeling every pothole and every highway stress joint and nearly every bridge joint. Things in the trailer got bounced around pretty good (I drove I-80 this past summer and through Illinois and Indiana and parts of Pennsylvania it was painful, especially knowing I was paying to drive these so-called freeways).

So, near the end of my trip I decided to remove the washer I had added to my Equalizer hitch and it has made a HUGE difference in ride. HUGE. The trailer doesn't get bounced around; the Air-Safe doesn't transmit the potholes and road joints. I even tried Normal Trailer Height and while the trailer and truck weren't "level" they weren't off level by much and the truck rode nicely, though it still rides nicer in Alternate Trailer Height.

My plan for this spring is to install lifts on the AS, provided I can buy properly rated jack stands that haven't been recalled. I'm a little nervous about doing this (since I'll be doing it myself), but I'm hoping the extra 3 inches of trailer height will help with getting everything level. I don't want to buy an even longer shank for the truck--it's pretty low to the ground as it is and it has drug going into/out of some fuel stops and campground sites.

But, I am disappointed in the lack of replies from others who have self-leveling suspensions on their trucks. It's not the end of the world, just disappointing. (Maybe I have described my problem(s) very well, and maybe a couple of pictures would have helped. But, I'm not a big picture-taker--but I am getting better about that with my new smarter-than-me-phone.)


Thanks. Still trying to figure mine out. Only had a chance to tow it twice with the new 3500. The self leveling seems to make little difference, of course the load is minimal for that truck. I have tried the Alt Height setting but it gives me some sort of error that there is enough load and then disables it. I wish there was better documentation on the RAM so it wasn’t all trial and error.

All that said, the truck handles the 27FB as if it isn’t even back there. Love the truck and we enjoy the AS a lot. (Although I will NEVER get another Flying Cloud. The interior is just too cheap)
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Old 01-25-2021, 03:42 AM   #10
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Thanks for this discussion.

If you had the chance to do it over again, would you get the air suspension again?

I'm curious because I have a RAM 2500 with coil springs and am considering adding aftermarket (Kelderman kit) air springs to the rear with a self-leveling valve to replace the coils. Currently, the truck rides really well towing the AS but is pretty rough when empty.

UnklJoe, I did a lift kit on my FC 30 last summer. It was a lot of work but worth it as we've had ground clearance issues in the past. I used four jack stands and a floor jack. Biggest issue was access to some of the bolts. Had to weld tabs onto the new ones to tighten them. Don't know if you 28 has same access issues or not.
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Old 01-25-2021, 05:08 AM   #11
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I have a 2017 Ram 3500 with air suspension and tow a 27FBQ International. I use a Hensley but my rig runs level and a lot softer with it on tow than without the Airstream....the drop stinger was calculated for my Ram and I wouldn’t trade the air suspension for anything. I can’t comment on the Equalizer other than a lot on here use them and are happy with them.

I’m kinda a “I want my tow vehicle weight close to the Airstream weight as possible” Ram guy so the 3500 was my compromise. It sure tows nice and Cummins hums along at about 13MPG so I can’t complain. I have a Titan fuel tank in the bed and hold 90 gallons of diesel and can drive all I want to in a day without fuel stops until I stop for the night. Hensley unhook is easy so I drive to gas station truck only.....fuel up.....and then repeat the next day if necessary.
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Old 01-25-2021, 07:46 AM   #12
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Aftermarket AB's do nothing more than level the TV, they add no payload. They do very little to improve towing or WD. A proper lash-up needs no AB's.

Integrated air suspension is a different animal altogether.

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Old 01-26-2021, 03:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Aftermarket AB's do nothing more than level the TV, they add no payload. They do very little to improve towing or WD. A proper lash-up needs no AB's.

Integrated air suspension is a different animal altogether.

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Bob, You are correct as far as your statements go, but helper air bags wasn't what I was talking about (my poor choice of words on last post). I'm looking at REPLACING the existing coil springs with air springs, not helper air bags. I found this thread interesting because the OP's experience with a stiffer ride on air suspension is opposite to what I've seen on this & other forums.
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Old 01-26-2021, 06:42 AM   #14
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Ahhh ok....my bad. Does the AM system your considering have a auto sensing load feature?
I've noticed that some have had difficulty getting the WD and auto air to play well together.
We don't have it on our 'Burb and don't tow with the M/B, but when the auto air first started to appear I believe most were setting the WD with the air disabled and letting it do its thing while under way. New electronics may have changed that routine.

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Old 01-27-2021, 03:23 AM   #15
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They do offer an auto-level but it's mechanical, not electronic. Here's the company's website:
https://kelderman.com/shop/2014-ram-...il-replacement

If I do the install, I'd include an auto height adjusting valve and a dump valve. Compresser, tank and utility air service are already installed in the truck.

I've seen folks post a variety of procedures for setting up the WD system but I'm open to suggestions.
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Old 01-27-2021, 08:51 AM   #16
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I have a 17 2500 4x4 ram. ..it does look like you could remove the coils and insert air bags...I would not do it...you would be better to buy one with the air already on it....very little difference between the leaf and coils...in the ride
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Old 01-27-2021, 09:39 AM   #17
UnklJoe
 
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Rough Ride Resolved

This is the original poster. I have a LOT of dynamics going on with my rig--self-leveling air suspension on the RAM; an AirSafe hitch; and the Equalizer weight distribution hitch.

Removing the washer from the Equalizer "head" really made my truck ride a lot smoother. A LOT. Night and day difference. BUT, it did make my trailer unlevel, by an inch or an inch-and-a-half or so (down at the hitch). And the front end of the truck was up a little bit from the position it was in before I removed the washer.

I'm STILL learning a lot about weight distribution hitches and adding in the RAM self-leveling feature and then throwing in an AirSafe hitch on top of that just makes it that much more difficult to understand and fine tune (at least for me!).

I don't believe--and I've thought a LOT about this--that the self-leveling feature is for making the ride smoother. I think it's about leveling the truck when there's a heavy load (either in the bed, or on the hitch). In my thinking if it's primarily for leveling the vehicle (the RAM, in this case) then as the air "bags" in the rear air up (for lack of a better term) that's going to make the ride stiffer. And, without the air "bags" the ride is going to be mushier. (I drove a LOT of pick-ups as a young man towing two- and four horse trailers--using half-ton pick-ups without any weight distribution. I can tell you that when the truck is overloaded the ride can be pretty mushy--leading to what I think is called "porpoising." Add in live, moving horses and the rig can be "fun" to drive--NOT!) I think the self-leveling feature tries to prevent the front end from rising too much when the truck is loaded, in addition to making the truck not look like the one in "Grapes of Wrath" when it's heavily loaded.

I don't think the self-leveling feature is like air ride suspension on tractor trailers which are intended to make a smoother ride for the cargo in the trailer.

I may be wrong--in fact I'm probably wrong about all this self-leveling stuff. I was just wondering how other people set up their weight distribution hitches with the self-leveling feature. I threw in the bit about stiff ride because I was surprised that removing the washer from the Equalizer head made such a (nice!) difference.

Again, my rig isn't as level as it was before, and I believe perfectly level isn't what is always desired (as long at the nose of the trailer isn't really high, because of a poorly loaded trailer). It sure rides better. And the truck appears to be fairly level with the washer removal (it's not exactly).

I think what I really need to do is get my rig to a CAT scale and determine how much weight I'm shifting with different set-ups. I envision spending two or three hours there, and I don't know if they're going to charge me for every weight measurement, or every two or three measurements. The one I used in Colorado was BUSY and they gave me two measurements for one price, and it was difficult to find a place to park the trailer and then get back in line for the measurement.

Anyway, I'm just trying to learn more. (Though my AS days might be numbered... I still like to learn as much as I can so the ones I have left are better.)

Mr. Cross, I'm not a Molly Ivins fan though I greatly respected her intellect. I like her most recent quote in your signature--very much!
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Old 01-27-2021, 10:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnklJoe View Post
I don't believe--and I've thought a LOT about this--that the self-leveling feature is for making the ride smoother. I think it's about leveling the truck when there's a heavy load (either in the bed, or on the hitch). In my thinking if it's primarily for leveling the vehicle (the RAM, in this case) then as the air "bags" in the rear air up (for lack of a better term) that's going to make the ride stiffer. And, without the air "bags" the ride is going to be mushier. (I drove a LOT of pick-ups as a young man towing two- and four horse trailers--using half-ton pick-ups without any weight distribution. I can tell you that when the truck is overloaded the ride can be pretty mushy--leading to what I think is called "porpoising." Add in live, moving horses and the rig can be "fun" to drive--NOT!) I think the self-leveling feature tries to prevent the front end from rising too much when the truck is loaded, in addition to making the truck not look like the one in "Grapes of Wrath" when it's heavily loaded.
Actually the self-leveling feature is for making the ride smoother when empty and not mushy when loaded.

Conventional suspension is more of a compromise, either stiff when empty and better when loaded (my father had an older 1-ton that was extremely ruff riding until there was more then 3000lbs in the bed) or like many of the newer trucks nice smooth ride empty and somewhat mushy (as you put it) when heavily loaded.
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Old 01-27-2021, 01:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Mr. Cross, I'm not a Molly Ivins fan though I greatly respected her intellect. I like her most recent quote in your signature--very much!
A very important point you made in the above post...
The trip to the CAT is very important. No guessing.

Ms.Ivins passed in 2007, I wouldn't be surprised if the quote is 20yrs old.
Still works today...
“Change is the new normal, if nothing changes, nothing is normal, everything changes, everything is normal.”
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Old 01-27-2021, 01:42 PM   #20
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My experience (Blue Ox; 3500 HD Ram, 25' FC RB) is that the tongue weight is barely enough to consistently allow the use of the alternate trailer height (lowering 1") feature. Clearly the airbag system is really there for much heavier loads (ie large 5th wheel weight).

I can usually get the alternate height to operate after a brief drive (settling the suspension down). It does what it says (lowers 1"). I've got lucky because with my set up, that 1" drop puts the trailer pretty much level. This is confirmed with measurements and uniform rise in trailer tire pressure rises.

Looking at the suspension, the last leaf isn't in play when the truck is light. I think this probably contributes to a smoother ride light. Loaded, the last leaf is engaged. Dropping 1" probably makes little difference to the dynamics (nothing I can feel) with my TV and AS.
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