Performance Testing The Andersen Hitch

[tlars]

Originally Posted by joeysmith

I have a 2017 FC 23D and am towing with 2019 Ford Expedition Max XLT, 4x4 (with HD tow package and Payload of 1767lbs).

I am using the Andersen WD hitch and was wondering what the limits are in terms of adjusting the tension nuts to shift more weight to the TV front axle.

I called Andersen and they told me to try and make sure the Urethane springs do not measure to be < 1 3/4”.

I am concerned because I have tuned the tension nut without any fresh water in the tank (with the multiple weighings at the CAT scale). With the current setup, the Urethane springs are already slightly lower than 1 3/4” already.

I am wanting to be able to fill my water tank for some future trips at sites that have no water hookups. I am certain I will be needing to further tighten the tension nut to help shift weight to the TV front axle when I head over to the CAT scale with fresh water tank filled up.

Does anyone know if Andersen’s support call person is correct in that I need to keep the Urethane spring to be > 1 3/4” after adjusting the tension nut?

Thx!

Perhaps cross checking with another source may help. These urethane springs were first used in industrial applications such as punch presses cycling hundreds of thousand times. Their application in a hitch seems to be appropriate. This site has some simple rules of thumb. https://www.acrotechinc.com/tubes-springs/

I would guess that a WD hitch application would lie somewhere between intermitant and continuous so max deflection should somewhere between 15% and 25%. Max defection should ocurr when you pass over a bad RR crossing, The preload deflection would logically be much less.

You can calculate from here. Does this jive with Anderson? You will note from the website that these are not preloaded to obtain a higher force. You simply select a larger diameter or durometer. That's my beef with Anderson. They should offer a selection of springs but they know their market better than I.

[tjdonahoe]

I will stick with my proven and reliable Reese duel cam...

[BayouBiker]

The resting length of the urathane spring is 2 inches and cycle duty is reduced with static deflection above 25% so 1-3/4 inch is good guidance.

Adding fresh water does not increase tongue weight because the tank is centered between the trailer axles so it does increase required WD tension.

[joeysmith]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

The resting length of the urathane spring is 2 inches and cycle duty is reduced with static deflection above 25% so 1-3/4 inch is good guidance.

Adding fresh water does not increase tongue weight because the tank is centered between the trailer axles so it does increase required WD tension.

Thanks for the great info on this.
Very helpful.

I plan to take a few measurements today at the CAT scale relative to the spring length.

I had a clarification question regarding adding water to my tanks...did u mean that I should expect to increase the tension because it will add to the tongue weight given the location of the tank?

[BayouBiker]

Sorry, typo. You should not expect to increase tension.

If you are having trouble getting enough weight transfer, you may want to look for slop and flex in the hitch system, either the ball and coupler, ball to shank, shank to receiver or flex in the receiver mount. The Andersen is sensitive to play in the system due to the short 1/4 inch static spring deflection range.

[joeysmith]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Sorry, typo. You should not expect to increase tension.

If you are having trouble getting enough weight transfer, you may want to look for slop and flex in the hitch system, either the ball and coupler, ball to shank, shank to receiver or flex in the receiver mount. The Andersen is sensitive to play in the system due to the short 1/4 inch static spring deflection range.

Thx! I am going to weight things again without the water first and see how much tension I need first.

Would u be able to suggest ways to identify slop/flex in the hitch system? Below are a few pics of my current setup. I have a TuffTow Coupler (TTCA 5400).

Attachment 1

[hmhRV]

I went with the Andersen hitch a year ago after hurting my 71 year old back lifting the components of the heavy WD hitch that came with the used 32' 1990 Excella.
However, since changing to Andersen, my back has thanked me every time I hook up and my wife and I have been pleased with little if ever any sway on the three trips we have taken this year, including an 1100 mile trip through the winds of west Texas.

[BayouBiker]

So check the shank and the ball when not coupled to the trailer. If the ball mount is loose on the shank tighten to 150 ft-lb after compressing any gap. Shim the shank on the top and consider an anti-rattle clamp. If you have a spare ball, fit it in the coupler and close the fork lever or use the Andersen one if you can handle the bulk of the shank and mount. Test it for any slop in all directions. Have a look at your receiver mount. It should have 3 or more fastening points with full welds in all three dimensions.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

I removed the Blue Ox hitch I had been using since we bought the trailer and installed and Andersen Hitch.

Setup:

I drilled out the hole in the shark fin coulpler lock retainer to match the hole size in the lever and used a lock with a rod of the same size. This way the forward tension can't push the fork notch and sheer the retainer tab. Then I added shims to between the fork ramp so the ball fits tight when latched. This limits movement and prevents wear on the coupler fork. Okay, so it is a bit of a hassle to make it work with the Atwood 88xxx series coupler used on Airstreams up until they were discontinued in late 2019.

Install:

Other than the modifications, installation was easy and adjustment is downright simple compared to all I have touched except the Propride and Hensley designs.

Use:

Reattaching is a breeze also very simple and nice. Fine adjustments are super simple, just tighten the bolts half a turn at a time and see how it feels, and required torque is modest to light. Repeat if more is needed. This is without jacking the trailer up. If you jack the trailer up, required torque is minimal.

The shank and ball design has the overhang 3 inches shorter than with my Blue Ox. My tailgate will no longer fully open

Performance:

Started the trip with zero tension. With my 25' trailer with full water tanks weighing in at 7,250 lb 1,120 lbs on the tongue and 2500 Ram loaded to 9,200 lb. Pickups and Large SUV's passing me could be felt. I had to adjust steering to stay on course. Semi's required significant adjustment. Porpoising was annoying but not terrible. Trailer had a bit of excess back and forth on sudden lane change, especially at 70+ mph, damping factor was about .3-.5. Added tension to restore 50% FALR and pickups, SUV's and Vans no longer impacted me, but Semi's did. Porpoising was gone and the truck rode significantly better than with the Blue Ox over rough road surfaces. The ride was significantly more gentle and comfortable. Damping was now over .5. Went to 100% FALR and Semi's could now pass with no effect. I did not require any steering adjustment. Bumps and poor/warn road surfaces were still so much more gentle than with the Blue Ox. Didn't even curse the like I used to. Backing, turning and traversing uneven surfaces was uneventful with no noise and no indication there was any excess tension or strain. The Blue Ox would make some noise in extremes.

At the scale I tightened the tension well over what was required and was able to move over 970 lb off the rear axle with some usable adjustment left.

Conclusion: All in all the performance exceeded that of the Blue Ox, it performed the required tasks as well and better than the Blue Ox and it was much more comfortable in the truck. Technically it is much, much easier on the trailer but a bit harder on the coupler.

Comments are welcome.

I did the reverse.
When the Anderson first came out I was taken by the simplicity .
I removed the Coupler and welded the Anderson recommended coupler.
It was a compete disaster .
The Anderson lacks the counterforce necessary to arrest sway. It is especially dangerous on a longer trailers. After a hair raising ride out west to the Farmington Rally I torched the coupler of rewelded the original and installed a BO. Been a happy camper ever since.
Anyone wanting my Anderson can have it . It is available in the Chicago area for pick up.

[BayouBiker]

I don't know franklyfrank, your story is interesting and I don't doubt your personal experience, but how can you be sure the problem was a fundamental design limitation of the hitch?

How much resistance to angular velocity is the Andersen is capable of delivering relative to the Blue Ox design do you know?

[DaKs]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

I have a friend trying to find a hitch that has good sway control and easy adjustable WD. The Blue Ox he tried (which is my old one) did not work on sway well. That’s why I replaced it. His older hitch just wasn’t easily adjustable.

I emailed him about Anderson Hitches because they are light (he hates lifting heavy hitch assemblies due to a few back surgeries). He likes my ProPride, but doesn’t want to spend 3,000 on a hitch. His SOB only cost him about 20,000.

Looks like a possibility for him.

This is one of the reasons I bought one. I love it

[lwp99]

I recommend adding safety wire to the shackles holding the chain to the horizontal piece. I had one come apart, fortunately in a campground.

Originally Posted by joeysmith

Thx! I am going to weight things again without the water first and see how much tension I need first.

Would u be able to suggest ways to identify slop/flex in the hitch system? Below are a few pics of my current setup. I have a TuffTow Coupler (TTCA 5400).

Attachment 381158Attachment 1

[lwp99]

Originally Posted by hmhRV

I went with the Andersen hitch a year ago after hurting my 71 year old back lifting the components of the heavy WD hitch that came with the used 32' 1990 Excella.
However, since changing to Andersen, my back has thanked me every time I hook up and my wife and I have been pleased with little if ever any sway on the three trips we have taken this year, including an 1100 mile trip through the winds of west Texas.

Same here; my back definitely appreciates the lighter weight. Took an 11,000 mile trip last year from AZ to PEI, CA with great results (other than needing to sd safety wire to the shackles connecting the chain to the triangle).

[joeysmith]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

So check the shank and the ball when not coupled to the trailer. If the ball mount is loose on the shank tighten to 150 ft-lb after compressing any gap. Shim the shank on the top and consider an anti-rattle clamp. If you have a spare ball, fit it in the coupler and close the fork lever or use the Andersen one if you can handle the bulk of the shank and mount. Test it for any slop in all directions. Have a look at your receiver mount. It should have 3 or more fastening points with full welds in all three dimensions.

Thanks for the suggestions. I did end up bringing my setup to the CAT scale to measure how much I should be increasing the tension on the chains.

Tongue weight based on the measurements is ~680 lbs. (see data below)
Adjusting the tension up to 10 threads keeps the Urethane spring length within the 1 3/4" target and the front axle weight is about (3000/3140) = 95.5%. Increasing the tension to 11 threads helps shift a little more weight to the front axle (3020/3140 = 96.14%) but then the spring length reduces below the guidance of what Andersen mentioned (reduces to 1 11/16") so I did not check #'s for further tightened settings.

When driving with 10 threads setting, I have not observed any issues so far but I have only taken 3 local trips (driving only about an hour or so with speeds ~55 to 60 mph).

Q1: Any thoughts from people on whether the weight transfer to the front axle is sufficient with the existing settings?

I also had a few questions regarding checking for slop in the installation. Please be patient with how uninformed my questions are as I've only starting trying to RV in the last few months. Have only taken 3 trips so far...

Q2. Was not entirely clear on what 'shim the shank' means exactly. Does this mean I may need to insert a shim into the shank where my ball/shank is connecting to my truck's receiver hitch to help make sure the shank is not rattling at all in the receiver? If it does rattle a little, this impacts the weight distribution capabilities?

Q3. Regarding checking for slop in the ball connection to the coupler, I was not entirely sure what this meant. I should be just taking the Andersen ball and shank and connecting it alone to the coupler with the latch locked down on it?

Q4. Regarding the receiver mount, is this referring to the way the hitch receiver on my truck has been attached to the truck? I should be confirming that the factory install has at least 3 welds?

Q5. When uncoupling from the ball, I did notice some black dust on portions of the ball and I can tell there is some rubbing occurring between the coupler and ball (near the top and also on a portion of the lower part of the ball. Will include a picture below...Is this normal and expected?


TV Only:
Steer Axle: 3140
Drive Axle: 3460
Total Axle: 6600

TV+TT (No WDH)
Steer: 3840
Drive: 4440
Trailer: 4880
Total: 12160

TV+TT (10 threads)
Urethane Spring Length: 1 3/4"
Steer: 3000
Drive: 4240
Trailer: 4940
Total: 12180

TV+TT (11 threads)
Urethane Spring Length: 1 11/16"
Steer: 3020
Drive:4180
Trailer: 4960
Total: 12160

[jaybauman]

It appears you mis-typed Steer value for TV+TT (No WDH). Your steer axle should be a lower value after you hook up your trailer with no WD. Should this value be 2840 instead?

Originally Posted by joeysmith

TV Only:
Steer Axle: 3140
Drive Axle: 3460
Total Axle: 6600

TV+TT (No WDH)
Steer: 3840
Drive: 4440
Trailer: 4880
Total: 12160

TV+TT (10 threads)
Urethane Spring Length: 1 3/4"
Steer: 3000
Drive: 4240
Trailer: 4940
Total: 12180

TV+TT (11 threads)
Urethane Spring Length: 1 11/16"
Steer: 3020
Drive:4180
Trailer: 4960
Total: 12160

[BayouBiker]

Joey, allowing for the typo mentioned, as it is you are returning a bit more that 50% load to the front axles and that is good result for you.

The last 1/16 does not return nearly as much load as the average of the previous 4/16ths which further indicates flex is absorbing much of the generated torque. I should have mentioned rear tow vehicle and trailer tire pressure as possible sources of excess flex also if the pressure is a bit low and soft rear tow vehicle springs which you can't easily do much about. In any case, you are in the right ballpark as is so you're in pretty good shape.

Q2. You are correct about how to shim the shank and slop in the system does impact weight transfer. The Andersen is much more sensitive to flex and gaps because you only have 1/4 inch of spring movement which translates into about 1 to 1-1/2 inch of ball movement in each direction so if shank fit allows for say 1/8 inch ball movement that absorbs 5-10% of the available tension there alone. Two or three additional gaps can rob you of half your tension. Conventional bars provide for 3-6 inches of ball movement so small gaps are much less noticeable.

Q3. correct again. Just check to see if the ball moves front to back, side to side or up and down in the socket. With your coupler, I am not sure how to adjust it if there is movement.

Q4. Yes, three or more fully welded points between the receiver and mount bar(s). Mine has four. One in front, one in back and two on the top. Then a secure attachment of the bar(s) to frame. Most factory receivers are great but some are not.

Q5. The blackened metal dust and the marking indicates some movement of the ball but it appears to be all in the pitch direction which is expected and will continue until the ball and socket conform to the same exact shape. Pitting, scrapes or metal to metal transfer should not occur.

[TouringDan]

Thanks for the review. I am very interested because I am looking for a hitch for my Tradewind with anti sway capability.

Dan

[Kay0]

We started out with an Anderson hitch primarily to add as little hitch weight as possible. We had marginal tow capacity With our TV and a 19’ AS. We modified the coupler to minimize the slop. 3-1/2 years of use and no complaints. I am really pleased to hear it can be used on the larger trailers. I hear about the problems with other hitches: being too heavy, incorrect bar weights, transmitted stiffness to the TV, problems with the Hensley hitch where it would not decouple and would not align to hitch up. I even heard of one broken arm from trying to tension a hitch. No thank you, I’ll stick with the Anderson.

[Mighty Mite]

Yes, thanks a lot for all this information. I think I am going for the Anderson for my 2021 AS (16') Caravel (end of Nov.) and the TV a 2020 Jeep Gladiator Overland model.



My max GVWR of the Overland Gladiator is 5800 lbs. I weighted the Gladiator with full fuel and NO ONE in the truck or anything in the bed on 2 different "CAT" scales with into 15 min of each. FUNNY, they both come up with a the exact same numbers.


Steer Axel 2540 lbs (Jeep max 3100 lbs)
Drive Axel 2260 lbs (Jeep max 3750 lbs)
Gross weight 4800 lbs (Jeep Max 5800 lbs)


Jeep max TOW 6,000 lbs
Jeep Max tongue 600 pounds.


AS 16' published tongue weight is 490 lbs.

AS 16' published GVWR 4,400 lbs.


Assuming in the end a 500 lb tongue weight, only leaves 500 lbs for passengers & weight of actual hitch (I think 60 lbs).


I weigh 250 lbs !! going to have to go on a diet


Bob

[joeysmith]

Originally Posted by lwp99

Same here; my back definitely appreciates the lighter weight. Took an 11,000 mile trip last year from AZ to PEI, CA with great results (other than needing to sd safety wire to the shackles connecting the chain to the triangle).

When referring to safety wire, do you have a pointer to an example of what would be good to use? Thx!