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Old 10-12-2020, 04:54 AM   #21
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Well said IMO.

"Character"
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Old 10-12-2020, 05:48 AM   #22
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And he never fully made the amends he promised.
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Old 10-12-2020, 05:53 AM   #23
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Hypocritical application of judgment is also a sign of character. The hitch performs significantly better than most give it credit and until we consistently punish all people and organizations that deface federal property and land, I'll dismiss one's sincerity.

On the week long trip I spoke with several others. Four who used Equalizer hitches, one a Blue Ox and one EAZ Lift. I also observed many others unhooking and rehooking hitches and talked with some about adjustment . Far and away, the Andersen is easiest to hook and adjust. So easy it offers the best opportunity to get it set up correctly, particularly for those who don't have the inclination to tinker. The Equalizer by far is the most difficult to get set correctly and I noted it was reflected the the degree those using the hitch had them set ideally judging from inspection and the performance they described.

I also had an opportunity to observe overhand distance for many hitches. I walked around the campground with a ruler to get a good sample (only if the truck was near the road though). Minimal overhang gives the best performance and highest stability. This is why the Hensley and Propride work so well as they project the overhang forward to near the axle, depending on articulation angle. It is not until the angle exceeds 2 degrees (a 50mph curve) that the projection point is shifted back far enough for sway to be a threat. Anyway the Andersen has the shorted stock overhand and provides the opportunity for the shortest overhang with modifications. The EAZ Lift was a close second.
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Old 10-12-2020, 06:54 AM   #24
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Brian

Can you explain your damping factor number and how it’s measured. Numbers were first post.

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Old 10-12-2020, 07:06 AM   #25
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I had an Anderson hitch but sold it. I found that to get it to provide adequate weight distribution I had to tighten the chain to extremes causing the red rubber washers to squeeze and bulge beyond specs. In addition the conical brake pad material then squeezed out and split. It was obvious the hitch wasn't up to task and self destructing. Also worry some is the extreme forward pressure exerted between the hitch ball and coupler.

I found hitching my current Equalizer and Anderson to be equal in difficulty and speed. Both require the jack to raise the trailer and truck to relieve tension while hitching. One advantage of the Anderson is that's its a little lighter in weight. However its no neater. While hitching the Anderson the chains fall in the mud while I can lean the WD bars of the Equalizer aside keeping them mostly clean


My take away is the Anderson is okay for light weight distribution duty, say small trailers, or larger trailers hitched to a heavy duty truck mostly riding on the ball.
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Old 10-12-2020, 09:07 AM   #26
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Perhaps you misunderstand the nature of neoprene. Can you confirm you have knowledge of the chemical and physical properties of synthetic rubber materials and plastics? It is not an elastomer and does not shrink under compression. Instead it bulges out so that volume remains constant. This is consistent with your observations. The neoprene cone bushing will bulge out and then at the concentration of sheer, it will split. This is a characteristic of the material, it is not self destructing, it is behaving as expected.

I compressed the springs to shift over 900 lbs off the axle. The amount exceeded the requirement for 1400 lb tongue weight, well over that of a 27' trailer. I did not exceed the performance specs for neoprene springs, they did not bulge beyond specifications, so I am at a loss to understand the difference in our experience.

Tell me more about this extreme forward pressure. Approximately how many lb of forward pressure did you observe? How much forward pressure occurs during modest braking from 50 mph for a red light or traffic? How about hard braking? Which is greater?

The Andersen, when installed correctly does not require raising the jack while hitching. I tried both ways and found either way works fine. I made use of my safety chains to support the chain plate well above the ground, so the chains and plate never got near the dirt.

I previously described how it is a misunderstanding to claim the Andersen is only suitable for light duty. It is correct to say the forces it employs are modest relative to the very high tension required for vertical tension systems.
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Old 10-12-2020, 10:54 AM   #27
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We switched to the Andersen WD hitch last year when we bought our Silverado 1500 tow vehicle for our 1972 Overlander. The folks at Andersen were helpful and the set-up went without a "hitch."
After a 3000 mile round trip, we were pleased with the performance-no sway, no porpoising, and no issues with wind or passing trucks. Also no noise when turning corners and a smmother ride. Yes, some scuffing on the ball. Much easier handing the chains vs torsion bars.
Over the years, we've owned 6 different Airstream/Argosy trailers and about as many WD hitch set-ups. Other than the early 2000's Blue Ox with the 10 lb stinger, this has been the easiest to use (we've also experienced the Hensley). No issues with loosening bars, anti-sway devices when backing at an angle.
Overall, very pleased with the Andersen WD hitch.
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:29 PM   #28
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In the 1500 miles I towed there was some minor ball scuffing as expected. No gouging scraping or pitting. The neoprene bushing did slightly protrude as it must and did split where sheer was concentrated.
Hi Brian, Did the bushing need to be replaced at this point or is the splitting part of the nature of this design and still useable?

1,500 miles does seem a bit low for failure of the bushing.
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:55 PM   #29
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It only slightly split where it protrudes out in free air not into the friction area. Early versions would sometimes continue to split down into the friction area. I don't expect mine to do that but I'll post an update if it does. They replace them no charge if they do split but what a hassle, that will count against it, since the Blue Ox and others are beasts and are trouble free. I don't do pictures, my browser is too old and won't upload them... maybe I will have to get a new computer or use my phone.
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Old 10-12-2020, 03:03 PM   #30
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I'm a ProPride guy through and through, but having just sold my trailer and hitch, I'll need to get a new hitch when my new trailer comes in. I understand how the Andersen distributes weight. But to me, the sway mitigation is a black box on this product. How does it accomplish this?

Of course I'm likely to stick with what I know for my Classic 33, but would the Andersen practically work for WD on a 10,000 GVWR trailer? My TV is in my sig below, so I really only transfer enough weight to make for a comfortable ride (~25% FALR on FC30 w/ ProPride).

Thoughts?
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Old 10-12-2020, 03:39 PM   #31
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Loved the Anderson

My experience was a year long with a 27' Jayco. Everything said in the original post was similar to my experience. Over time, since I didnt drill the holes for the large grub screws I did have a small amount of attachment bracket creep. No big deal. If you felt a little sway or porpoise, you simply got the big crecent wrench and gave each side a half turn to tighten the chains. truly a very smooth ride and no issues with sway or load. When I nought the AS I let theAnderson go with the other trailer.

I miss the ase of unhitching and having zero heavy greasy bars to handle let aline the hitch itself on the Equalizer I have now. zero grease needed because the ball turns with the trailer. you just un pin the yoke from the ball and drop it and leave it with the trailer. ez pz.

I would do it again if I need a new WD hitch.
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Old 10-12-2020, 03:46 PM   #32
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Propride can't be beat for sway control hands down. The Andersen holds the ball stationary with respect to the coupler for yaw (but not pitch). Instead the ball rotates with the trailer inside a cone shaped neoprene bushing compressed by tongue weight and chain tension which provides variable frictional resistance and my testing shows it to be reasonably effective; Comparable or better than typical hitches like Blue Ox, Equalizer, Reese, Curt, EAZ Lift etc. Again Propride and Hensley are the odd ones out being superior for sway control.

Having torqued mine up to move over 900 lb and also heard from others, I am convinced the Andersen is capable of generating enough tension for 10,000-11,000 lb trailers. The key will be to ensure the frame brackets are far enough back and the chains have no slack to allow enough adjustment when the tongue is fully supported by the ball.
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Old 10-13-2020, 07:04 AM   #33
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To those that say the Anderson design - its WD characteristics - can't work or won't work well; they either didn't install it correctly or don't know how to use it. It darn sure will transfer sufficient weight and furthermore, it irks me that someone would expect lab testing or weight tickets before they are convinced. Contribute to the conversation or keep quiet.

During many of our lifetimes, Germans, Italians and Japanese started a war, killing kills thousands (upon thousands) of soldiers and sailors, but that doesn't stop us from buying their products. We buy products made with slave labor in sweat-shops all over the world, but let an American scratch on a rock! Nobody died. I say forgive and let the memory fade.

If in the future I'm in the market for a hitch, Anderson will be on the top of a very short list.
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Old 10-13-2020, 08:01 AM   #34
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Spot on, Fair_Enough, on all counts. The degree of hypocrisy, bias and double standards on display here is fascinating. This applies to the commercial, social and technical aspects of the topic at hand. I suppose it's just a reflection of the broader cultural tactics playing out in the streets of cities with squishy leadership.

Another technical advantage of the Andersen design is by increasing chain length with a few extra links, required chain tension is reduced, providing yet another way to address heavier tongue weights. As you say, there is simply no way one can factually support an argument the Andersen is not up to the task.

You can fault it for having parts that wear out. You can fault it for being slightly incompatible with the now discontinued Atwood coupler (though this can be addressed). You may want to argue yaw resistance is insufficient for some applications, but I would respond you need Propride or Hensley in that case. Other than this list, I have found it is superb on all counts compared to the alternatives. Perhaps I have missed something.
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Old 10-13-2020, 09:01 AM   #35
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Many thanks to Brian for the information and to all replys to this thread. I have a fair amount of experience with urethane die springs in industrial metal punching and forming applications. One very obvious issue I see is that one does not change the force of a urethane die spring by compressing it more. You change the diameter or durometer. I'm looking at a WD hitch to take 600 lbs of tongue weight. This would require and very different spring than a 1400 lb application. I find one size fits all very surprising as urethane springs are stocked in all sorts of diameters, lengths and durometers. My only guess as to why only one spring is available is that Anderson purchased a huge quantity direct from an extruder. If you watch the two installation videos, one by Anderson himself and one by an employee on Sept 12 2016, neither say to compress the urithane spring more. The video dated Sept 12 2016 says to raise the ball on the TV if the trailer is not level. I don't need a WD hitch if that is the correct solution. The written installation instructions do state to turn the nuts one turn at a time until the trailer is close to level. They also state that it is not nessary for the TV or TT be perfectly level just not to extreme in either direction. So according to Mr. Anderson you guys are waisting time and money tying up the CAT scales at the truck stops. Just Eye ball. Again, very informative thread.
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Old 10-13-2020, 09:43 AM   #36
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I have had an Andersen hitch for a long time. I think it must be nearing ten years. It works well for me. My '62 Tradewind only has 300-400 pounds of tongue weight, so I don't need much weight distribution and I've never measured it. I've never experienced any sway problems either. So, qualitatively it has met all my needs.

My only complaint is that if you unhitch without the tow-vehicle being in-line with the trailer (unhitching at an angle) it is a real bear to get the coupler lined up so the pin will go through the coupler. The threaded piece that goes through the urethane bushings isn't long enough to allow you to use the chains to pull the coupler straight. Now I keep a long rod to run through the coupler hole to get leverage to rotate the coupler, along with a dead blow mallet for persuasion. However, the best solution is to remember to ensure the tow vehicle is straight prior to unhitching.

I purchased my Andersen hitch prior to the Andersen family demonstrating their character. I don't believe that I would buy one now as I don't want to be associated with that type of people. However, disposing of the hitch at this point would only punish me. I'm not going to do that. Everyone needs to weigh their decisions on whom to patronize based on their own personal values. My values prevent me from patronizing numerous companies, retail chains, news organizations, cities, states....etc. Andersen is just one of them.
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:00 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Thalweg View Post
I have had an Andersen hitch for a long time. I think it must be nearing ten years. It works well for me. My '62 Tradewind only has 300-400 pounds of tongue weight, so I don't need much weight distribution and I've never measured it. I've never experienced any sway problems either. So, qualitatively it has met all my needs.



My only complaint is that if you unhitch without the tow-vehicle being in-line with the trailer (unhitching at an angle) it is a real bear to get the coupler lined up so the pin will go through the coupler. The threaded piece that goes through the urethane bushings isn't long enough to allow you to use the chains to pull the coupler straight. Now I keep a long rod to run through the coupler hole to get leverage to rotate the coupler, along with a dead blow mallet for persuasion. However, the best solution is to remember to ensure the tow vehicle is straight prior to unhitching.



I purchased my Andersen hitch prior to the Andersen family demonstrating their character. I don't believe that I would buy one now as I don't want to be associated with that type of people. However, disposing of the hitch at this point would only punish me. I'm not going to do that. Everyone needs to weigh their decisions on whom to patronize based on their own personal values. My values prevent me from patronizing numerous companies, retail chains, news organizations, cities, states....etc. Andersen is just one of them.


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Old 10-13-2020, 11:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by tlars View Post
Many thanks to Brian for the information and to all replys to this thread. I have a fair amount of experience with urethane die springs in industrial metal punching and forming applications. One very obvious issue I see is that one does not change the force of a urethane die spring by compressing it more. You change the diameter or durometer. I'm looking at a WD hitch to take 600 lbs of tongue weight. This would require and very different spring than a 1400 lb application. I find one size fits all very surprising as urethane springs are stocked in all sorts of diameters, lengths and durometers. My only guess as to why only one spring is available is that Anderson purchased a huge quantity direct from an extruder. If you watch the two installation videos, one by Anderson himself and one by an employee on Sept 12 2016, neither say to compress the urithane spring more. The video dated Sept 12 2016 says to raise the ball on the TV if the trailer is not level. I don't need a WD hitch if that is the correct solution. The written installation instructions do state to turn the nuts one turn at a time until the trailer is close to level. They also state that it is not nessary for the TV or TT be perfectly level just not to extreme in either direction. So according to Mr. Anderson you guys are waisting time and money tying up the CAT scales at the truck stops. Just Eye ball. Again, very informative thread.
I am sorry, I have been describing the springs as neoprene but as you pointed out, I should have said urethane. Thanks for that. The general formula for pad and cylindrical springs is:
L=D x Y x (1+2f^2) where

D = % of deflection/inch of thickness
L = load in psi
Y = Young's Modulus (approximately 3500 to 4500 psi)
f = shape factor (pressed area divided by free area)

The polyurethane springs used by Andersen will competently produce approximately 1000 psi each at the max recommended 25% deflection. The generated tension is roughly linear in the useful range.

Thus for a 600 lb tongue weight you would compress the springs roughly 42% of what would be required for a 1400 lb tongue weight. The dynamic range of motion and change in tension will be nearly the same for both tongue weights in response to terrain and suspension travel because of the near linear character.

For towing setup, it is correct to adjust the ball height to level the trailer. Chain tension is used to adjust weight distribution. You are correct that weight distribution should not be used to level the trailer. I have my instructions in hand. It correctly says to use WD tension to level the TOW VEHICLE. It also correctly says to adjust the ball up or down to get the trailer within 1 inch of level when tension is optimal for tow vehicle attitude and weight distribution.

As far as Eye balling it, Andersen is mostly correct that tow vehicle attitude is an excellent proxy for proper distribution. Fine adjustment would be made on the road as others have previously described to optimize ride, suspension performance, steering response, and sway damping. The CAT scales are great to confirm the set-up, is important for vehicles close to towing limits where oversteer is an issue, and are necessary to address specious arguments from naysayers.
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Old 10-13-2020, 11:14 AM   #39
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I get you're in love with this hitch but you don't need to belittle others with different life experiences to support your opinion.

I got my copy of the Anderson hitch in late 2012. I did install it correctly, pretty hard to not. Maybe Anderson has since modified their design but after just two trips the biggest failure was the conical brake pad material distorting and oozing out of the hitch head, maybe a half inch of material. Others with this hitch at the time were also experiencing the same result. Didn't look good for the long term.

To get enough weight distribution for my rig, a Ford Expedition, and trailer tongue of 950 lbs, I needed to torque the washers to the point where they were sucking into the bulging red neoprene parts. I forget the exact number, but it maxed out somewhere between 200 and 300 lbs off the rear axle by CAT scale.

The last straw was when Anderson posted on their website that their WD hitch was incompatible with the trailer coupler welded on my trailer as installed by Airstream. This was after I purchased their hitch, and they wouldn't take it back for refund.

Like I mentioned earlier, maybe Anderson has corrected flaws in their hitch these past 7 years, but that's my experience with this hitch. Glad you're happy with it. I wasn't and have moved on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
Perhaps you misunderstand the nature of neoprene. Can you confirm you have knowledge of the chemical and physical properties of synthetic rubber materials and plastics? It is not an elastomer and does not shrink under compression. Instead it bulges out so that volume remains constant. This is consistent with your observations. The neoprene cone bushing will bulge out and then at the concentration of sheer, it will split. This is a characteristic of the material, it is not self destructing, it is behaving as expected.

I compressed the springs to shift over 900 lbs off the axle. The amount exceeded the requirement for 1400 lb tongue weight, well over that of a 27' trailer. I did not exceed the performance specs for neoprene springs, they did not bulge beyond specifications, so I am at a loss to understand the difference in our experience.

Tell me more about this extreme forward pressure. Approximately how many lb of forward pressure did you observe? How much forward pressure occurs during modest braking from 50 mph for a red light or traffic? How about hard braking? Which is greater?

The Andersen, when installed correctly does not require raising the jack while hitching. I tried both ways and found either way works fine. I made use of my safety chains to support the chain plate well above the ground, so the chains and plate never got near the dirt.

I previously described how it is a misunderstanding to claim the Andersen is only suitable for light duty. It is correct to say the forces it employs are modest relative to the very high tension required for vertical tension systems.
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Old 10-13-2020, 11:42 AM   #40
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The "hitch" debate is as fun to watch as the "tow vehicle" debate.

Individual experiences really help to drive the points home.

I think with the Andersen hitch, when I looked at it, I couldn't wrap my head around how it achieved the uplift on the hitch. I also have an Atwood coupler and didn't want to have it cut off and weld on a Demco coupler. I guess the other issue that seems to be happening is the poly cone appears to come out or in Brian's case the poly is splitting. I suppose one could carry spare poly cones and replace when needed.

Looking forward to more constructive discussions on this subject!
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