Payload affected by Hitch Weight

[Tony S]

Hey folk I was hoping someone could answer a tow relating question for me.

If I have a truck (1975 F250) that has 1600 lbs payload capacity after tanks are full. If I then have a trailer with a tongue weight of 650lbs (1973 Tradewind) Does that then reduce the remaining payload capacity down to 950lbs when using a WDH (Drawtite)? Thanks in Advance Tony

[Aviator]

Yes,it does.

[BigAl]

Not exactly, but it is safe to assume so. With weight distributing hitch some of the tongue weight shifts onto the front wheels of the truck and some weight shifts back onto the trailer wheels.
Safest approach is to hook up and go to a cat scale and get weights for all axles when hooked up.
Al

[barts]

Keep in mind that GVWR ratings are somewhat approximate in these trucks. What really matters here are tire and axle ratings; many of these trucks have combined axles ratings of 10K or more, whereas legal limits for a 3/4 ton were 8800 lbs.

I'm not suggesting ignoring these limits - but what matters more here is getting loads level (WD or air lifts help here), tires inflated properly, etc.

- Bart

[Tony S]

The reason I asked the question is I was at a SOB dealership for something to do while my wife’s car was getting serviced here in Oregon.

The salesman was an OK guy with some years in the business but he said I was wrong thinking it did come off the pay load. I had no ego attachment to what I thought I knew. I hoped deeply that I was wrong with my shrinking payload capacity in my less than two week old new old tow vehicle that I purchase to get the job of towing measly 1973 25’ Tradewind. Anyway, He went to the "go to guy" for info He told me “ good question” and wasn’t sure of the answer. Then the owner got in the action and gave part of the answer AL gave saying I was wrong that it shifted to the trailer discounting ( as Al did not) that it shifted it to the front wheels also. This is one of the two top RV dealerships. Tough to get all but the basic answers without this forums

So should guess I just figure the 600 odd lbs is gone from pay load. Yikes That is tough down to 950 – live weight of around 510lbs canoe and paddles jackets 100lbs It down to 340lbs minus the hitch itself another 60 or so. This rig is ¾ ton 7.3L diesel which I got to replace the one run ½ Express van that I found I was 240lbs over weight GCWR at 12240lbs

This is the type of rig that Andy recommends against because it will tear apart the AS

Any suggestions or legal modification to TV to up its capabilities I am looking to rolling down the road with my bride safe sound and in joy.

Thanks Tony

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Tony S

The reason I asked the question is I was at a SOB dealership for something to do while my wife’s car was getting serviced here in Oregon.

The salesman was an OK guy with some years in the business but he said I was wrong thinking it did come off the pay load. I had no ego attachment to what I thought I knew. I hoped deeply that I was wrong with my shrinking payload capacity in my less than two week old new old tow vehicle that I purchase to get the job of towing measly 1973 25’ Tradewind. Anyway, He went to the "go to guy" for info He told me “ good question” and wasn’t sure of the answer. Then the owner got in the action and gave part of the answer AL gave saying I was wrong that it shifted to the trailer discounting ( as Al did not) that it shifted it to the front wheels also. This is one of the two top RV dealerships. Tough to get all but the basic answers without this forums

So should guess I just figure the 600 odd lbs is gone from pay load. Yikes That is tough down to 950 – live weight of around 510lbs canoe and paddles jackets 100lbs It down to 340lbs minus the hitch itself another 60 or so. This rig is ¾ ton 7.3L diesel which I got to replace the one run ½ Express van that I found I was 240lbs over weight GCWR at 12240lbs

This is the type of rig that Andy recommends against because it will tear apart the AS

Any suggestions or legal modification to TV to up its capabilities I am looking to rolling down the road with my bride safe sound and in joy.

Thanks Tony

The total weight on the truck, whether it is front or rear axle, is counted as payload. So, in round numbers, a 500 pound tongue weight will reduce the payload capacity of the truck by 500 pounds, less the amount transferred back to the trailer.

[JFScheck]

Originally Posted by Tony S

This is the type of rig that Andy recommends against because it will tear apart the AS

So - what are folks to do if they exceede their TV weight from tounge load and TV payload?

A F-250/F-350 or 2500/3500 is not going to tear up your airstream. The wrong type of load balancing hitch may - but the courts still out on that one.

I use a ProPride, the HH is just as good as you crank in the "support" you requrie vice "all support or nothing" as per the "static" systems.

[bonginator]

Don't forget to add passenger weight into you payload calcs. It includes anything you have inside the tv as well.

The suggestion of cat scale weighing above is a good one to remove the guesswork.

[tkasten]

I agree with BARTS above. It should be noted that in 73 most trailers were pulled by cars. A good WD hitch & properly inflated tires are a must.

[thecatsandi]

Originally Posted by Tony S

Hey folk I was hoping someone could answer a tow relating question for me.

If I have a truck (1975 F250) that has 1600 lbs payload capacity after tanks are full. If I then have a trailer with a tongue weight of 650lbs (1973 Tradewind) Does that then reduce the remaining payload capacity down to 950lbs when using a WDH (Drawtite)? Thanks in Advance Tony

Actually lower. Since the WD hitch transfers weight to truck as well.
In order to get an accurate number you need to take the setup to a truck scale.
My truck has a 10,000 GVW. With the transferred weight, full fuel and me in the cab the truck weigh in just about 10,000.

[Tony S]

Thanks all. To the scale I will go. Tony

[JFScheck]

Yes, the scales are our best friends!!!

[barts]

Originally Posted by tkasten

I agree with BARTS above. It should be noted that in 73 most trailers were pulled by cars. A good WD hitch & properly inflated tires are a must.

I find we don't need a WD hitch w/ our Tradewind and our F250; I have air lift springs now that I use to level the truck when it's loaded w/ trailer attached. Of course, we use a short tow bar to keep the tongue weight as close to the rear axle as possible. The rear axle capacity on our truck is 6000 lbs or so; the tires match this. We always tow w/ 75 or 80 psi in the rear tires. I would like to get this rig to the scales to understand the front-rear weight balance; if anything, the diesel tends to put a lot of weight on the front end on these trucks. W/ shell & rack, I think we're at 7200 lbs; add 400 lbs of tongue weight and 400 lbs of passengers & stuff and we have some 800 lbs of payload left.

- Bart

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by barts

I find we don't need a WD hitch w/ our Tradewind and our F250; I have air lift springs now that I use to level the truck when it's loaded w/ trailer attached. Of course, we use a short tow bar to keep the tongue weight as close to the rear axle as possible. The rear axle capacity on our truck is 6000 lbs or so; the tires match this. We always tow w/ 75 or 80 psi in the rear tires. I would like to get this rig to the scales to understand the front-rear weight balance; if anything, the diesel tends to put a lot of weight on the front end on these trucks. W/ shell & rack, I think we're at 7200 lbs; add 400 lbs of tongue weight and 400 lbs of passengers & stuff and we have some 800 lbs of payload left.

- Bart

But, Bart, understand when a truck Mfr. installs a diesel, the front (and maybe the rear) suspension is changed over the same truck with a gasser installed. In other words, the same front/rear "balance" is attempted whether a gas or diesel is installed relative to ride height, geometry, etc. So when a given load is applied to the rear axle (whether it is hich weight or bed weight), the loading and unloading of the respective axles is the same (given the same WB, bed length, cab configuration, etc.) The visual height change may be a little different, but the weight shift will be very close. And of course, the "squat" will be different perhaps resulting in a slight difference in CG. From a handling and emergency maneuvering standpoint, I believe it is still wise to use WD, even with 3/4 and one tonners.

[TG Twinkie]

I have the same setup as Bart; Air bags on the rear. I really like this setup. No equalizer hitch for my Argosy 26. Round numbers my truck has a 4400# front axle and a 6000# rear axle. The GVW rating of the truck is 8800#. The truck; full of gas with me inside weighs 5900#. That gives me a payload capacity of 8800#-5900# = 2900#.
Maybe that's why this rig handles so nice. Loaded and ready for the road my trailer weighs 5500#. It is a 1998 Dodge 2500 long box extended cab 2 wheel drive pickup with a 5 speed manual transmission and a 360 V8.
I believe the long wheel base truck gives me considerably more stability when it comes to cross winds etc. The trailer is 26' hitch to bumper, the truck is 23' bumper to bumper. Pretty good match in my book.
I run with 50# of air in the air bags and 65# of air in the truck tires and 45# to 55# in the trailer tires. Depending on if the trailer is dry or wet.
I never drive over 65 mph.

[Tony S]

Bart, it see seem like we have an almost identical set up from what you describe from the actual curb weight to the Gvwr Mine has a cap on it as you can see and the Tradewind is in the background in one pic. I called it my live weight but the passenger load in my case is around 500lbs. I have some built in boxes in bed and ply on tailgate that to my surprise has to be taken out to squeeze a few more lbs capacity. I feel a little foolish about buying a rig to solve the problem I had with the towing ½ van (which I love) and not completely solve it. Oh well no big deal it will get the job done with a little care. I plan to load a few things more in TW while towing ( keeping under 5800 lbs and then transfer them into bed of truck when set up

Anyway thanks Any other suggestion are welcome I am a novice and want to be safe
Tony

[TG Twinkie]

Boy! It looks like you could sleep in the truck box; pretty plush.
I would rather have the weight in the truck as opposed to the trailer; to keep from having the "tail wagging the dog effect"
I am of the belief that the TV weight must be close to or exceed the trailer weight for good handling.
Even though these old trailers could be pulled by a car in their day. Cars in their day weighed in excess of 2 tons and had a really long wheel base.
The old ads depicted an Air Stream being pulled by a man on a bicycle. What it didn't show is stopping the trailer or even pulling it around a curve.