Newbie WDH question/advice

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by myoung

I'm surprised to hear that the spare tire isn't included in the factory numbers. After all, it is standard equipment so why should Airstream low-ball the weight?

Last time I checked in the case of some models, the spare tire carrier may be standard equipment, but not the spare tire and wheel itself. I had to pay extra for that. At the time it was considered an option so that's why it isn't in the hitch weight numbers. A good example why you don't compromise on stated weights when you are nearing vehicle or component capacities.

Jack

[myoung]

Whew. This has been a most helpful exchange. We thank all of you for educating us and helping us see what we need to do.

Would anyone like to purchase a brand spanking new 2005 28 SO with zero user miles? It's got options like a large A/C, spare tire, International taillights, Fantastic fan, etc.

What we will now do is find a 25 FB, probably. Don't know what the Special Edition offers, but we'll investigate that too.

With the 25 we get down to a tow rating that can be handled by our Durango without having to go to the $3,400 axle replacement and the attendant gas mileage penalty. Tongue weight will be much, much lower.

So, my new, helpful friends, does this sound like a workable plan? Hope so.

Thanks to all,
Mike

[2airishuman]

mike

well, that was gonna be my next suggestion.....but it brings tears to my eyes when suggesting a trailer change.....the 25 in any trim will be more in line with the tv and really even the 28 if there wasn't a slide unit.....would be close.

well there is still the issue of wheel base/trailer length.....

and i do like the hensley arrow hitch for control....

the 25 special editions/safari with international upgrade..... are cool....like a modern open studio apartment on wheels.....you might also find a near new/new 25 classic, that has more features and travel virtues for about the same money.....often folks buy the 25s and quickly realize they want a 30/31/34 so near new classics in the smaller length are around....the later 05 have disc brakes which is a nice feature.....but 04/05/06 have only small changes really.

being flexible in selecting a setup leads to happier campers.....

just checked my dealer's web site and he has 10! units in the 25 foot length of various flavors......always priced competively.....

www.airstreamofarkansas.com

usually gene puts up lots of photos on their web site and can email you more if needed.......he's an honest guy......give him a call at 1.800.airhog1 after looking over the website.......

and tell him dr joe from kc says "howdy partner"....

cheers
2air'

[myoung]

Thanks for all the help, Dr. Joe.

Tomorrow we'll go back to the dealer and work something out. It'll be a 25-footer for sure. I've been partial to the International ever since we first saw it. Neither of us like the look of heavy oak of the Classic. The Safari is more in keeping with the clean lines that appeal to us, coming from the Westfalia which is way, way better than what happened when VW allowed Winnebago mess up the franchise.

Perhaps the 25 FB SE will be just the ticket. Safari clean and International sleek.

Cheers,
Mike

[CanoeStream]

Welcome Mike -- I'm glad you can follow along with the experienced hands telling it like it is.

Now, I have a Nissan Titan -- 9000# tow capacity, right? Huge GCVWR too! Let's take a look (at my owner's manual that is). The largest GVWR is 1641 pounds for a 2WD King Cab (small bench seats in back), in the lowest trim level, without the factory sprayed-in bed liner. I love my truck but don't want to be on the road holding on by my fingernails. My truck is fabulous -- I'd venture to say a nicer interior than any Big 3 hauler -- a better ride too, the smaller King Cab (I got something right), leather seats, 6 CD changer, side air bags, navigation system -- uh, and 4WD, the factory bed liner and high trim level which does add a hitch receiver. The bed liner is 200# and the receiver is -- I'd guess 150# or more.

My suspension is in the simple half ton truck range. Reading the fine print, the GVWR for my model is 1255 pounds. Ulp! But can I go big time? Nope, even though the 5-speed tranny and very strong engine give me power that can compare with a hemi. There is a good reason I have not yet bought a tonneau cover or a topper -- I did my homework and have the winter to make new plans. We've got 400# of people and dogs in the truck (the Airedale is 70#!) I know the WD equipment and necessity of filling the LP tanks will put off-the-record weight onto the tongue, the whole tongue, and nothing but the... you get the picture. I did go for Airstream's LS option package including the spare tire, so those options are definitely off the standard tongue weight (as Jack sez above; I'm not sure how that figures into Classics, etc).

I'll have a long, cold winter to make plans to replace my tow vehicle -- even to pull our brand new 25' FB SE (a SUPER Airstream by the way!!!! We both love our new baby!). The 25' can be managed with the Titan if I use my TV in bare bones status, but I want to travel with the occasional firewood purchase, my Honda generator, small tool chest -- and as my ASForums ID would suggest, my canoe and probably our bikes will play a big part in us getting away. So a truck cap becomes a strong need in the end! I did look at 3/4-ton trucks before buying the Titan and the decision point was my wife not wanting to make so big of a step up to 3/4-ton or diesel. Gotta walk before you can run... I'm wid ya buddy -- get the Airstream you want, then buy a TV to suit it! Your Durango seems to be set in stone, so congrats on lowering your sights -- for a 25' FB SE you won't regret it. Woo-hoo!

[Big Dee]

Mike,

Don't feel bad as WE ALL have gone thru the learning process just as you have. I learned so much from the towing gurus on this forum (thanks, RoadKingMoe) that I owe all my tow knowledge to this place. Just keep asking questions.

First, I think that the 25' will be a good match with that big Hemi. To take care of the WB worries, I would recommend the Hensley hitch. After the shock of the purchase price wares off, you will NEVER be sorry that you bought the Hensley. Just ask any Hensley owner. As for me, you can have my Hensley when you "pry it from my cold, dead hands!"

Jack is certainly right about getting advice from dealers. Beware! They usually have alterior motives. Get your questions answered here.

Keep us posted as to what you decide. Who is your dealer? Hopefully they will make it right for you. Toscano has always treated me right. Post some picks of the complete rig when you get it. Good luck and hope to see you at the Spring NorCal Rally!

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by myoung

Thanks for all the help, Dr. Joe.

Tomorrow we'll go back to the dealer and work something out. It'll be a 25-footer for sure. I've been partial to the International ever since we first saw it. Neither of us like the look of heavy oak of the Classic. The Safari is more in keeping with the clean lines that appeal to us, coming from the Westfalia which is way, way better than what happened when VW allowed Winnebago mess up the franchise.

Perhaps the 25 FB SE will be just the ticket. Safari clean and International sleek.

Cheers,
Mike

I am FULLTIMING in the 22ft CCD and I really, really, really love it - but when I saw the 25ft FB SE I almost cried cause it's soooooo kewl!

My initial plan was to be a "campground" camper - I like my hot showers, morning latte, chatting up the neighbors, etc. But then I started seeing the photos being posted by people who've taken the paths less traveled... and low and behold I'm learning to boondock now. Many of the state and federal parks which have limited or "no hookup sites" are also limited to a maximum trailer length of 25 feet. Size matters - and sometimes smaller IS better!

Less is more. You have to be prepared to simplify. I have two kitchen knives and 4 pans (big skillet, tiny skillet, dutch oven/soup pot, two quart pan.) If I get the insane idea to roast a turkey I'll (A) get over it or (B) get a throwaway aluminum roasting pan. When I downsized I had a Blender, a portable mixer, a really nice egg beater, several wire wisks and one of those little electric gizmos that you can supposedly use to make milkshakes in a glass, etc. I kept the egg beater.

Clothing: You carry 30 outfits, but live in 5... so stop carrying 30! Give half of the them to a relative or friend in Louisiana or Mississippi - they will either need them or know someone who does.

I'm a natural hoarder - so every week I sort through ONE bin or drawer or closet and ask myself "do I really need this/when was the last time I used it?" Toss it, give it away AND most of all STOP shopping at Sam's Club! (Or go with a friend and split up the toilet paper, paper towels, etc.)

I also vote for a weight distributing hitch. I've only been an Airstreamer since March, but once in the interest of speed, I hooked up just the ball and chain. What was I thinking? Only going about 25 miles so it would be simpler unhitching. Once was enough. The difference wasn't horrendous, but semi's suck - suck your trailer sideways! I won't be going anywhere without the Reese hooked up again. When I have to back up - and the area is tight, I do crank down the friction anti-sway bar so it won't creak and groan and limit my turning radius.

Tin Lizzie

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by myoung

With the 25 we get down to a tow rating that can be handled by our Durango without having to go to the $3,400 axle replacement and the attendant gas mileage penalty. Tongue weight will be much, much lower.

So, my new, helpful friends, does this sound like a workable plan? Hope so.

Thanks to all,
Mike

Mike I really feel bad for you, especially when you thought you had your ducks in a row. I'm still somewhat disappointed in your A/S dealer telling you that things were fine with your tow vehicle.

We had to compromise our first Airstream. We fell in love with the 2001 Anniversary Edition unit that we saw at the local RV show. Unfortunately my half ton van had a 6,500 tow limit so we settled on a 27' Safari. We had 3 seasons of fun and when I changed tow vehicles in the spring of 2003, I knew that a Classic SO was in my future. I was pretty surprised that I bit so quickly but at a fall dealer rally, I was given a trade in number on my Safari that I couldn't refuse.

Safari's are still hot property. As a matter of fact the dealer had sold my trailer to a couple from New Mexico who were waiting for me to bring it in after its last trip. They made the agreement after a quick tour. I was still sitting on the ground pulling off the Dual Cam sway control when the guy came up to me and announced himself as the new owner.

Jack

[Big Dee]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

I was pretty surprised that I bit so quickly but at a fall dealer rally, I was given a trade in number on my Safari that I couldn't refuse.

Safari's are still hot property. As a matter of fact the dealer had sold my trailer to a couple from New Mexico who were waiting for me to bring it in after its last trip. They made the agreement after a quick tour. I was still sitting on the ground pulling off the Dual Cam sway control when the guy came up to me and announced himself as the new owner.

Jack,

Reading this made me chuckle. I, too, fell victim to an RV show. Stepped into a 30' SO Classic, like yours, and, I kid you not, did not leave that trailer for 4 hours. Airstreamers kept coming in and we would talk forever. Then the AS rep stepped in and I cornered him for an hour. I fell in love with the 30' SO but then decided on the non-SO because of that tongue weight. Turns out that I like the non-SO floorplan even better. Toscano offered me a great trade-in price so I took the night to think and the next day I was there to make the purchase. When I brought in my old 25' Safari to pick up my new Classic, Toscano had sold my trailer BEFORE I arrived on the lot, sight unseen. Amazing.

[myoung]

Okay, Plan B activated. Today, we swapped the 2005 Safari 28 SO for a 2006 Safari 25 FB with twins.

Isn't it interesting that Airsteam doesn't allow the panoramic windows as an option on the FB unless you pop for the SE option as well? But, the SE adds a lot of stuff that those who prefer the Safari styling might not like.

Perhaps someday that evolution will take place, generating even more sales!!!

Thanks for all the learned advice. Mike...

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Big Dee

Jack,

I fell in love with the 30' SO but then decided on the non-SO because of that tongue weight. Turns out that I like the non-SO floorplan even better.

Well I'm ending my second year with this trailer, and really don't have any misgivings. The slide out has performed flawlessly and I have come to appreciate the engineering and the simplicity of the unit. This was my biggest worry and knock on wood, I haven't seen a hiccup other than the fact that a small amount of water can get on top of the slide out which will show itself inside as you retract the slide. It takes a driving wind driven rain to cause the water to get on top, since the Zip-Dee awing that extends automatically usually can shield the top pretty well. I now check that top before I retract the slide and can push off any small puddle that accumulates.

Jack

[bdlwet]

I have been following this for a couple of daze and thought my 2 cents might be worth something in the road worthy dept. Yeah, mike, a 25 new A/S is likely better to tow with a small SUV. I have drivien many miles in Northern CA. and believe you will find it pretty hard on the dodge motor in crossing passes and long hills with the Durango......(nice vehicle it is tho')
I am not one to drive slow while everyone passes me on hills while I tow the ole silver twinkie up long passes so I believe both vehicle and motor should be oversized so the tow wehicle doesn't wear out too soon or constantly overheat in summer. I tow a 24 foot Tradewind with standard hitch and big ford diesel. If you do not have plenty of experience towing heavy things I would recommend Weight Distribution hitch. There are a coupld of good makes. As previously mentioned there are very expensive hitches available also. Before you spend lots of money in hitches I would perhaps take some driving tips or lessons from some experienced folks. They are out there and would gladly help you. If ever here in Colorado give us a yell and we'll go camp with ya. - Good Luck and welcome to the forum

[2airishuman]

way to go mike

it's stressful change trailers....even when it's not here yet. but this is much less stessful than a sudden stop/lane change/avoidance manuver when the tv isn't enough for the trailer....or one needs to leave something important at home (like a bicycle) just to manage the load....

and whatever the details it's great that your dealer agreed to the change.

i'm sure you'll apply the same rational process to selecting the wd/sway control hitch....use the search function to read the many threads on this issue.....

ya know,
lost in all of this mature planning is the sheer excitement of actually getting a new airstream! so we all want to read about it and see the photos once it's in your possesion.

sure we're adults but walking into that new unit, taking the maiden voyage, tweeking things so that it's finally 'yours'....well these are all 'feel really good' moments....so share when it happens.

and i'm still stuck on the notion that your wife weights less than 40 kilos.....i think that makes her a bambi!


cheers
2air'

[myoung]

Thanks again to everyone who offered sage advise on our TV/AS combination. We picked up our brand new AS Safari 25-FB LS this past Thursday, spent two very rainy days in a campground (biblical rain, really) shaking down systems, and brought it to the storage yard on Saturday where I backed it up for the first time into a space with perhaps 18-inches of clearance on each site.

With some trepidation we left the dealer lot with the AS attached to our 2005 Dodge Durango Limited 5.7 liter Hemi. The hitch is a Equil-i-zer with 1,000 pound capacity. I hadn't expected to feel as much road motion from the trailer to the car, but travelling over concrete highways won't be the norm for us I hope. Asphalt roads aren't so bad. I guess this is all to be expected when you add 5,500 pounds to a 5,200 pound TV across a hitch.

With little experience for reference, I'd still say that the combination tows very well, better than I had expected even. In normal everyday driving with the Dodge, we get about 15.5 mpg. On highways with care I can get up to 21.6 mpg. Towing the AS mostly along I-80 with some slow driving and on and off ramps and parking lots, we got 13.4 mpg. I was dreading the prospect of single-digit mpg trips, but even when combining the city streets and hilly backroads to the storage yard, the overall mileage was what I think is a respectable 12.5 mpg.

The Dodge has an automatic transmission and the standard (not higher-geared) rear axle ratio. It also has a Tow/Haul mode that changes the transmission shift points but I only used that occasionally up steep or long grades. That was also a pleasant surprise because continual use of the Tow/Haul mode would seem to reduce gas mileage by about 40% given the difference in rpms at speeds where I made comparisons with and without the Tow/Haul mode operation.

I can't say that I ever noticed the passing trucks although none passed us at more than say 70 mph. We drove a steady 55 mph on the highway, which caused everyone in the world to pass us, but we aren't in any hurry. For a few miles we had 20+ mph crosswinds that cause slight movement but far less than I feel in our VW Westfalia. So, I'd say that the Equal-i-zer does a very fine job at anti-sway, but again I have no reference point of other anti-sway devices.

Some have suggested that the longer the wheelbase of the TV the better. I don't think it matters much for towing (again with the caveat of having no point of reference) and I found the short wheelbase very handy for making quick adjustments while backing up. I'm sure that I won't always be so lucky during my backing maneuvers, which is where I think the short wheelbase will become helpful.

[Big Dee]

Sounds like you have a sweet rig. Too bad the weather has been so bad for your first outing. The 25" FB is a great floorplan. Hope you can make the next NorCal Forum Rally so you can show off your coach to an admiring public. Looks like Casini Ranch (Russian River) in April if they aren't washed away by the floods. Hope you can make it and have fun with your rig.

[myoung]

Yup, couldn't be more pleased with out 25-FB. Posted some pictures on my photo web site at http://homepage.mac.com/mikero1/Firs...toAlbum12.html.

The Russian River may be down low enough for a rally in April, but looking at it now might make that seem impossible. We hope to be there although our April calendar is quite full with out-of-state trips from April 18th to the 30th.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by myoung

The Dodge has an automatic transmission and the standard (not higher-geared) rear axle ratio. It also has a Tow/Haul mode that changes the transmission shift points but I only used that occasionally up steep or long grades.

Mike, while tow haul does change the shift points, it's there for a reason and if used full time when you tow, will probably extend the life of your transmission by downshifting a little sooner on grades and holding you in a lower gear longer before upshifting too soon. Don't worry about the small amount of gas it will cost you. Gas is still a lot less than replacing an overheated transmission.

Jack

[Coastalview]

Hi Mike, been following your story. I just had a good look at the photos in your link. We have been staying at Vineyard Rv Park every summer, for a lay over stop on our annual summer trip. Its has always been 3 digit temps there, but never imagined to see the pool area under water. Hopefully you can make time for the next nor cal rally at Casini Ranch in April. Might have to bring some pontoons, but we will still be havin' fun. Jeff

[myoung]

Coastalview,

Yes, we were parked in space 57 on Zinfandel Lane and had a view of the pool out the back dinette window. You must know the campground well to be able to tell that that was the pool area in one of the pics.

Is there a proposed schedule for the Russian River trip in April yet? The last half of that month is already booked, but we hope to attend if we can. It would be our first rally and would love to gather with other Airstreamers. The Vinyard campground was nearly full but we had the only Airstream.

We like to visit your special part of the coast several times a year. In fact we will be in Carmel next week with my parents and then again 2 weeks later with friends from CT who always come here in Jan/Feb to get out of the winter weather. With guests along we always stay at the Cypress Inn, but when in our VW camper we have always stayed at the county park at Laguna Seca. I expect that we'll take the Airstream there too. I wonder if you could recommend other campgrounds suitable for the Airstream in the Carmel area. Not only is it one of our favorite spots, but it is a convenient 150 miles from home.

[Coastalview]

Mike, I'll put a bug in Big Dee's ear, regarding the rally dates at Casini.
Big Dee is without a doubt, our Nor-Cal rally wagon master ! Yee Haaa!
You asked about me being able to recognize locations based on your photos, and that was easy. You can make out the camp site number in one of your photos, as we have camped in that same site several times each summer. As for camping here on the Monterey Peninsula, there aren't many choices. Laguna Seca was the location for our first Nor-Cal rally!
I work for the city of Monterey, and you can boondock at the cities Vetrans park:
http://www.monterey.org/rec/vetspark.html
If you choose this location, let me know, as I know we can get you in there with your 25', as it has been done before.
Keep your eye out for up coming rally info, Jeff