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Old 02-23-2024, 02:35 PM   #1
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Loading the TV or the Trailer ?

Just got a 25' FC FBT & was going over TV payload and weighed all our gear we travel with. I came up about 20lbs under the payload of the truck. I was calculating all our gear, food, bedding,clothes, ect. were going to be in the truck. But now realizing a lot of that weight is carried in the trailer and would account only in the actual TW number. I started thinking (probably a mistake) that the weight of those items will not transfer pound to pound on the TW. I know the trailer weight obviously goes up pound for pound but depending on where you put the weight it may be quite less added to the TW vs actual item/items your putting in the trailer. If that's true I'll be well under our max payload. I haven't had a chance to get to the cat scales yet I used the prior owners cat scale TW for figuring out payload weights. If anybody has thoughts or experience on TW, payload & weight stored in trailer affecting TW I'd like to hear about it.
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Old 02-23-2024, 02:52 PM   #2
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The tongue weight factors into the payload of the tow vehicle.

If you put 100 pounds in the trailer centered over the wheels, it may not increase the tongue weight at all. Move it 10 feet forward and it may increase tongue weight by 20 pounds or so.

Just remember that if your empty camper is near the max of the tow capacity, you may push the tow limits.

It can be tough to not overthink it, but I’m not going to be going to the cat scales every time I get an additional can of beans to take camping.
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Old 02-23-2024, 03:49 PM   #3
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Kinda what I was thinking, & I do know TW & hitch weight is part of pay load. Good news is all the stuff in trailer-clothes, food, bedding, misc kitchen stuff, water, golf clubs, tools, is well over 230lbs so maybe that will only add 40-60% of that 230lbs to the TW leaving me with a much better payload margin.
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Old 02-23-2024, 04:57 PM   #4
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Since you're apparently close to the payload limit of your TV and tongue weight is a factor you can eliminate the guesswork around how much weight your trailer is contributing to the situation by using a tongue weight scale. That way when you load the trailer you'll know exactly how much of that extra weight is showing up at the hitch.

https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-2...0aAkQQEALw_wcB
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Old 02-23-2024, 04:57 PM   #5
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Before I did too much thinking I would load it all up and head to the CAT scales to get some definitive numbers.
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Old 02-24-2024, 08:18 PM   #6
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Your weight

Have you had the reality check of your weight and passenger also. Works well telling TW to get on the scales! NOT!





Quote:
Originally Posted by 2link2 View Post
Kinda what I was thinking, & I do know TW & hitch weight is part of pay load. Good news is all the stuff in trailer-clothes, food, bedding, misc kitchen stuff, water, golf clubs, tools, is well over 230lbs so maybe that will only add 40-60% of that 230lbs to the TW leaving me with a much better payload margin.
Thanks
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Old 02-25-2024, 08:23 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by 2link2 View Post
Kinda what I was thinking, & I do know TW & hitch weight is part of pay load. Good news is all the stuff in trailer-clothes, food, bedding, misc kitchen stuff, water, golf clubs, tools, is well over 230lbs so maybe that will only add 40-60% of that 230lbs to the TW leaving me with a much better payload margin.
Thanks


You didnt post enough information about your tow vehicle to give an opinion. However if you are maxing out a 1500 frame pulling a 25 foot camper, its too heavy for that truck and you should be in a 2500 frame. Unless you dont exceed 50mph or your zipcode. I have a 11K trailer rated F150 and I would never pull a 25 foot camper with it. 23 foot international would be a maximum.
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Old 02-25-2024, 12:36 PM   #8
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You didnt post enough information about your tow vehicle to give an opinion. However if you are maxing out a 1500 frame pulling a 25 foot camper, its too heavy for that truck and you should be in a 2500 frame. Unless you dont exceed 50mph or your zipcode. I have a 11K trailer rated F150 and I would never pull a 25 foot camper with it. 23 foot international would be a maximum.

Wasn't looking for an opinion it's about the fact of how the weight of gear carried in a trailer impacts the payload of a TV.

I'm well under the TV rated weight spec for a trailer. Payload is the issue & when I was adding up everything that counts against the payload I didn't consider the fact that some of the gear will end up in the trailer. Per responses to the OP gear in the trailer will not be a pound for pound effect it will be less. How much less will depend on where it's stored & the only way to accurately figure that out would be to get TW at CAT scale or trailer scale.

Thanks
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Old 02-25-2024, 01:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by 2link2 View Post
... the only way to accurately figure that out would be to get TW at CAT scale or trailer scale.

Thanks
There's another way but it's tedious and I don't really recommend it.
Split the trailer into stations and establish the ball as datum (station 0) then establish arbitrary station numbers all the way back to the bumper.

You do have to weigh the empty trailer to establish the baseline moment, but every item & fluid you add, multiply it by its moment arm and in the end you can know the distance from the datum (ball) to the center of gravity. If you've been diligent in weight everything that goes in, you know _how much_ it weighs and can do algebra with that to calculate the load on the ball and the load on the wheels.

If it sounds like a pain, that's because it is. It's also how one typically calculates the weight and balance of an airplane before taking off.
At one point we discussed towing with a smaller truck, and I floated this as the price of admission. That discussion was short

Your decisions belong to you, and enough people tow enough miles with 1/2 ton trucks that I'm in no position to say it can't be done.

Somewhere around the 5th or 6th page in there are some pics that might help -- but seriously, it's a lot of work. https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/fi..._phak_ch10.pdf
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Old 02-26-2024, 07:30 AM   #10
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There's another way but it's tedious and I don't really recommend it.
Split the trailer into stations and establish the ball as datum (station 0) then establish arbitrary station numbers all the way back to the bumper.

You do have to weigh the empty trailer to establish the baseline moment, but every item & fluid you add, multiply it by its moment arm and in the end you can know the distance from the datum (ball) to the center of gravity. If you've been diligent in weight everything that goes in, you know _how much_ it weighs and can do algebra with that to calculate the load on the ball and the load on the wheels.

If it sounds like a pain, that's because it is. It's also how one typically calculates the weight and balance of an airplane before taking off.
At one point we discussed towing with a smaller truck, and I floated this as the price of admission. That discussion was short

Your decisions belong to you, and enough people tow enough miles with 1/2 ton trucks that I'm in no position to say it can't be done.

Somewhere around the 5th or 6th page in there are some pics that might help -- but seriously, it's a lot of work. https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/fi..._phak_ch10.pdf

Thanks for the info. !

That makes sense but way too much work for me ! I think a trip to the CAT scale will give me all I need for a safe tow.
As far as the 1/2 ton thing goes IMO there is way too much generalization floating around on that debate. It comes down to the exact truck your using, some 1/2 tons will not handle a 25' FC very well others will handle a 25' very well. I just towed our 2017 25' FC home fro AZ to Oregon in some nasty high winds, rain. Speed was 65mph up to 75-78mph when passing large trucks. I was also passed by large trucks who were traveling well over the speed limit. My 2019 RAM 4WD 1500 payload of 1788lbs towed that trailer "like a dream" The towing was really great no sway, no drafting, no porpoising. In the high winds I could feel both the trailer and truck move but it was very slight and not a problem. I was sure I was going to need a 2500 for towing due to what I read.
Thanks again
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Old 02-26-2024, 08:00 AM   #11
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2link2, this last post affirms what I was thinking. You are paying attention and have some actual towing experience behind you. I have towed my 25FB over 65K miles now without incident. I am towing with a Tundra that has plenty of power, great brakes and torque. It does NOT have as large a weight capacity as you have. We do not over load things, I have taken it to the scales on two different occasions and am fine with the numbers. If you are close it doesnít mean you need to go out and buy a bigger truck. As stated, yours pulls well and have enough miles and experience to know if things were haywire. Enjoy your new trailer. We love ours.
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Old 02-28-2024, 06:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2link2 View Post
Wasn't looking for an opinion it's about the fact of how the weight of gear carried in a trailer impacts the payload of a TV.




You came to the wrong place if you don't want opinions.

Post your scale ticket. Then, the GVWR and GCVWR of the truck and trailer.
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Old 02-28-2024, 09:55 AM   #13
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trailer weight positioning

I love knowing the elements of my rig so I've weighed multiple scenarios.

Weigh each axle in multiple configurations. I discovered when I fill my fresh water tank, the weight sitting on my TV rear axle is less, as much as 80lbs when fully loaded for a 3 week trip. And the ride is a bit more smooth. I'm no where near my 7500 trailer limit, so the added 300lbs isn't an issue.

Fully loaded I'm under 7000lbs in the trailer and 4000lbs under my max gross combined rig limit.
Short answer, weight placement in the trailer can positively effect the weight on the TV
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Old 02-28-2024, 11:02 AM   #14
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Before I did too much thinking I would load it all up and head to the CAT scales to get some definitive numbers.
This...until you know what you don't know you're drifting in the dark.

After you learn your rig you'll be able to adjust the load & WD without having to CAT every trip. 👍

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Old 02-28-2024, 11:41 AM   #15
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Forget about the stickers and numbers,
put the weight where the best handling performance can be achieved, and who ever packs the best ; ).

Best is over or in-between the axles. However, the trailer axles are probably worse off than the truck axles, unless you have made some suspension upgrades.

I had 1000lbs of skiers and gear in the truck and I really felt that driving through corners etc. That is true payload.

I have 1000lbs on the hitch and the truck is way more stable because the weight mounted super low, in-line with the axles and movement of is supported by the trailer. Therefore, speaking on vehicle dynamics, subtracting 100% of the TW off "payload sticker" doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 02-28-2024, 12:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2link2 View Post
Thanks for the info. !

That makes sense but way too much work for me ! I think a trip to the CAT scale will give me all I need for a safe tow.
As far as the 1/2 ton thing goes IMO there is way too much generalization floating around on that debate. It comes down to the exact truck your using, some 1/2 tons will not handle a 25' FC very well others will handle a 25' very well. I just towed our 2017 25' FC home fro AZ to Oregon in some nasty high winds, rain. Speed was 65mph up to 75-78mph when passing large trucks. I was also passed by large trucks who were traveling well over the speed limit. My 2019 RAM 4WD 1500 payload of 1788lbs towed that trailer "like a dream" The towing was really great no sway, no drafting, no porpoising. In the high winds I could feel both the trailer and truck move but it was very slight and not a problem. I was sure I was going to need a 2500 for towing due to what I read.
Thanks again
Your obviously getting an "eyefull" of "expert"(?) advice here...and if not, there are 50+ more threads prior to yours on this topic over the past several years, if you care to review!

I have owned 3 different year/model 25's over the years, and my tongue weight on those 25's was always 1000lbs to 1100lbs actual on the scales when loaded with full water, propane, and our gear. Important to weigh your trailer loaded and also your truck loaded. That said, I also looked at several 1/2T GM, Ford, Toyota, and RAM trucks as tow vehicles when looking for new TV. I have learned that RAM and Toyota typically do not have very high payloads (<1500lbs); compared to Ford and GM, but you perhaps yours is unusual as a 4x4 with special heavy duty option I am not aware of? Does your doorjamb sticker say "max payload" is 1788? If so, you are pretty lucky to have that with a RAM 4x4. I would load up your trailer, load up your truck. Go to the scales and do a 3 pass weigh so you know where you really are. Moving stuff around inside the trailer may help some, but really, 2 adults= ~300-350lbs+ 1000lb tongue weight+ 150lbs campgear in bed, if you have 1700lbs payload is pretty good! If you like the way it feels when towing as you said, thats all I would be concerned about. We aren't able to experience your description, so I would go with what you know and be happy!

Sounds like you have found a great match for towing your 25!
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Old 02-28-2024, 03:42 PM   #17
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Your obviously getting an "eyefull" of "expert"(?) advice here...and if not, there are 50+ more threads prior to yours on this topic over the past several years, if you care to review!

I have owned 3 different year/model 25's over the years, and my tongue weight on those 25's was always 1000lbs to 1100lbs actual on the scales when loaded with full water, propane, and our gear. Important to weigh your trailer loaded and also your truck loaded. That said, I also looked at several 1/2T GM, Ford, Toyota, and RAM trucks as tow vehicles when looking for new TV. I have learned that RAM and Toyota typically do not have very high payloads (<1500lbs); compared to Ford and GM, but you perhaps yours is unusual as a 4x4 with special heavy duty option I am not aware of? Does your doorjamb sticker say "max payload" is 1788? If so, you are pretty lucky to have that with a RAM 4x4. I would load up your trailer, load up your truck. Go to the scales and do a 3 pass weigh so you know where you really are. Moving stuff around inside the trailer may help some, but really, 2 adults= ~300-350lbs+ 1000lb tongue weight+ 150lbs campgear in bed, if you have 1700lbs payload is pretty good! If you like the way it feels when towing as you said, thats all I would be concerned about. We aren't able to experience your description, so I would go with what you know and be happy!

Sounds like you have found a great match for towing your 25!

Yep door jamb sticker says max payload 1788lbs. I am going to get to the scales next month loaded up & see what actual the TW is. I'm pretty confident I'll be under the 1100lb TW due to the Lithium batteries. Prior owner had CAT scale TW at 1100lbs loaded up and with lead acid batteries.

Thanks
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Old 02-28-2024, 05:01 PM   #18
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As far as the 1/2 ton thing goes IMO there is way too much generalization floating around on that debate. It comes down to the exact truck your using,
You're right about that. Problem is people are forced into "way too much generalization" due to people asking if a 1/2 ton can do it and not giving any other info. As you know payload matters, many don't provide the numbers to give accurate advice, even after being asked. Many don't even want to say how many people will be in the vehicle, a low payload and only the driver may be fine, adding another 4 people can cause problems.
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