How did we survive wo sway control?

[dave10a]

I was watching vintage AS mfg videos and this one shows AS being built as well as how it handles in extreme conditions. I don't believe they were using sway control on 4-5000 lb vehicles built in the '60s. BTY my 8,000 lb F350 diesel handles very well pulling a 28ft AS in all conditions without anything but the ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4cegxy41Jc

[jcl]

Originally Posted by dave10a

I was watching vintage AS mfg videos and this one shows AS being built as well as how it handles in extreme conditions. I don't believe they were using sway control on 4-5000 lb vehicles built in the '60s.

Sadly, some didn't survive.

Looking at US deaths in motor vehicle crashes, comparing 1960 to 2020, the number of deaths went up (as the number of vehicles and population went up) but the deaths per 100,000 people, eg corrected for population, were cut by close to 50%. That was due to a lot more than sway control, but essentially, the highways are safer now than they used to be.

The Equalizer hitch went into production in 1945, so was already established in the 1960s.

[Ray Eklund]

No sway towing a 27FBQ on the Ball behind a F350 Diesel Ford. Nope... and I did not DIE.

Wikipedia: Motor vehicle fatality rate in the U. S. by year

Would that include No Sway Control passengers in a Tow Vehicle with any brand of Travel Trailer?

(From Wikipedia)

(Graph does not transfer)

Annual US miles traveled (blue), traffic fatalities per billion vehicle miles traveled (VMT) (red), per million people (orange), total annual deaths (light blue), VMT in 10s of billions (dark blue) and population in millions (teal), from 1921 to 2017
The table below shows the motor vehicle fatality rate in the United States by year from 1899 through 2020. It excludes indirect car-related fatalities.

For 2016 specifically, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) data shows 37,461 people were killed in 34,436 motor vehicle crashes, an average of 102 per day.[1]

In 2010, there were an estimated 5,419,000 crashes, 30,296 deadly, killing 32,999, and injuring 2,239,000.[2] About 2,000 children under 16 die every year in traffic collisions.[3] Records indicate that there were 3,613,732 motor vehicle fatalities in the United States from 1899 to 2013.

Although the number of deaths, and deaths relative to the total US population, declined over most of the previous two decades, the trend reversed in 2015 and continued to move upward in 2016.[needs update] From 1979 to 2005, the number of deaths per year decreased 14.97% while the number of deaths per capita decreased by 35.46%. The 32,479 traffic fatalities in 2011 were the lowest in 62 years, since 1949. US motor death statistics reported by government only include those on public roads, and do not include parking lots, driveways, and private roads.

[uraljohn]

As the youngest of 5 kids growing up in the 1960's we camped for vacations. We had a 25' Holiday Rambler trailer. My Father got a new car every 2 years from his job. He always picked out a Ford station wagon with the largest engine and tow package. Yes, you could get a tow package back then. He had a local welding shop weld on a strong enough hitch and put in a brake controller. A set of air shocks was next. The trailer went right on the ball and away we went. All over the U.S.A. and parts of Canada. Thousands of miles with 7 people in the car and trailer loaded to the gills. Never a problem. No blow outs. No break downs. All across the western States up and down the mountains. I guess that I am lucky to be alive!

[Ndcctrucks]

I am getting ready for my first trip to southern Alaska (Juneau). I am planning to tow a 2004 International CCD 22’ weighing approximately 5800 lbs, with a 1973 Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 with manual transmission and no anti-sway bars (original suspension). No sway control nor weight distribution; pulling on the ball.

I’ve test-towed on two-lane mountain roads and windy interstate highway. Ain’t skeered.

However (tempting the Fates):

If you don’t hear from me by first week of September, we all died.

If we make it back, I promise to truthfully relate any motion control problems experienced; likewise, I promise to state that there were none, if so.

[Ray Eklund]

dave10a started this. I am just adding text. He has brought Trouble to Town.

After avoiding death towing a Travel Trailer with under sized and over sized vehicles... I prefer over sized vehicles.

I was conditioned to believe I HAD to have a Special Brand of Hitch.

I was conditioned to believe I HAD to have Weight Distribution, no matter what.

I was conditioned to believe I Had to have Sway Control, no matter what.

None are TRUE. Experienced towing is a learning experience of how to Avoid an Accident. Newbies... learn... and will become experienced.

Some Newbies tow as they drive... erratic and in a hurry. Add 25 feet of trailer and their mind forgets that a trailer in tow, changes physics and driving habits, immediately.

I see them everywhere. Wonderful that they are not towing at the time, as well. Yes... you see a 30 foot SOB being towed behind a small pickup and swaying out of control... these people exist. They add to the statistics that most towing a travel trailer recognize as... Idiots with no idea.

Fake News. Fake Stories. Salesmen selling the Fear and Pucker Factor.

Yes, experienced Drivers are involved in a single vehicle accident towing a travel trailer. Much like Airline Pilots with experience. Accident Reports may give you an idea how this happened. Often.. not.

Oliver Elite Trailers are the BEST TRAVEL TRAILER TO TOW ON THE BALL, I have owned. I have an oversized F350 Diesel 4x4. Any speed. Any wind. Cross wind, Down wind, Passing wind. A 4900# dry weight, go anywhere trailer.

Stock with 16 inch Michelins and four sets of leaf springs... oh my. ...and ruin your trailer.

Nervous? Then believe what you hear, been told, sold and sent down the road. That was me in 2006. I finally figured it out by... testing my tow vehicle and trailer with a Ball and solid Shank to slide into my F350 sleeve.

I discovered... I did not need all this stuff. Even the Weigh Safe WS4 2.5 inch shank, with a 2" and a 2 5/16" ball option. A a quick swap of either ball. If the Shank was two to three inches longer... I would try it for a test run locally. The shank is shorter than the Equalizer Hitch, so I use the Equalizer to tow the 27FBQ without SC and WD. Do not need either.

If you are a competent driver and have towing experience... Then begin talking Tires and Air Pressure and Tire Rating and... again... you discover that there are options that are not

[Ray Eklund]

Dream the Impossible. Try the Impossible. Free your self from the hysteria about needing expensive hitches, when all it takes are balls. 2" and 2 5/16 and 7" Shank.

Shipped in a heavy duty carton from Utah.

Total length of 13 inches. I do not need a wheel barrow to move it... our Blue Heeler could pack it to us. Alloyed aluminum... too.

I can also make sharp turns in the back country with plenty of clearance of the F350 tail lights and the body of the Oliver, as it has a longer distance from the ball to body distance... which is great for Oliver Boondocking.

This would be up to a 23 foot Airstream in my opinion, what I am currently using with the Oliver. It is also very light in comparison to other hitches.

On the Carton: Made in Utah. Why be kinda safe? When you can be Weigh Safe. Check it out. I did, purchased and use it on all our Oliver camping trips.

*****

Originally Posted by Ndcctrucks

I am getting ready for my first trip to southern Alaska (Juneau). I am planning to tow a 2004 International CCD 22’ weighing approximately 5800 lbs, with a 1973 Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 with manual transmission and no anti-sway bars (original suspension). No sway control nor weight distribution; pulling on the ball.

I’ve test-towed on two-lane mountain roads and windy interstate highway. Ain’t skeered.

However (tempting the Fates):

If you don’t hear from me by first week of September, we all died.

If we make it back, I promise to truthfully relate any motion control problems experienced; likewise, I promise to state that there were none, if so.

[John Ware]

No need to add anything. Ray's got it covered.

[Ndcctrucks]

“…when all it takes are balls. 2" and 2 5/16 and Shank”

Heh heh heh!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

"Back in the day" trailers were lighter. The typical "sedan" weighted a lot more than they do today. Speed limits were lower on this and that road. In addition, the typical drive train wasn't super robust. Folks drove slow or they fried this or that. Indeed some who drove slow still fried this or that. Lots of trips to the mechanics back then.

All that said, sway did happen. It very much did bother people. Often it was unclear what was going on. The typical response was to slow down a bit more ( which solves the problem ....).

Even with a proper WD hitch / properly set up and an F350, you can get a bit of sway under the "right" conditions. I have data on this. Take off the WD and the range of conditions is a whole lot larger. Finding those conditions does not involve breaking any speed limits or driving outside the state of PA.

Bob

[MickeyC]

Originally Posted by dave10a

I was watching vintage AS mfg videos and this one shows AS being built as well as how it handles in extreme conditions. I don't believe they were using sway control on 4-5000 lb vehicles built in the '60s. BTY my 8,000 lb F350 diesel handles very well pulling a 28ft AS in all conditions without anything but the ball.

Several years ago I purchased the Equal-i-zer Hitch when I purchased my first travel trailer because all the veteran RVers said I should. I got to thinking about the mechanics and geometrics of the hitch as I was mounting the hitch system onto the truck and trailer. The instructions said to make the adjustments when sitting on level ground. I got to thinking how the friction bars worked. When you go over a hump in the road or parking lot the bars have no pressure on them. When pulling thru a dip the bars have extreme pressure on the truck hitch and the trailer frame. After hooking it up I took it for a test run. I checked the bars on the first hump and dip I could find. The pressure on the bars in a dip was so extreme that I knew that wasn't good. I was afraid of damage to the frame of the trailer.

Well, when I got home I immediately removed the system and I have run the ball only every since. I did get the rear airlift system to bring my TV back to stock height. I have a Dodge RAM 2500 diesel with the AirLift system and I have never had any trouble. IMO, if you have control issues with your TV and trailer you need a bigger TV not a hitch system.

[ChristyB56]

We have a 2011 F350 diesel Super Duty and I was not planning to get anti-sway control for our 26’ Overlander. You don’t even know the trailer is back there when towing.

Then I saw a few news stories of wrecks in Florida involving Jack-knifed towed campers, and recently my in-laws were a few cars behind an F250 towing an RV on I-77 in the outside lane and watched as the trailer just started to slide sideways and nearby drivers dodged around trying to get out of the way. By some miracle the driver was able to get control somehow and there was no crash. It was a very busy stretch of road in SC. The in-laws ended up behind the truck/trailer at the next rest area exit and said that both occupants were shaking and nauseated from the close call.

Nothing against RV towing drivers, the highway surfaces are not the best anymore and anything could set the trailer to go wonky. Anti-sway is just a little aid to ensure a safer trip on the interstates. Go with whatever makes you comfortable.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

dave10a started this. I am just adding text. He has brought Trouble to Town.

After avoiding death towing a Travel Trailer with under sized and over sized vehicles... I prefer over sized vehicles.

I was conditioned to believe I HAD to have a Special Brand of Hitch.

I was conditioned to believe I HAD to have Weight Distribution, no matter what.

I was conditioned to believe I Had to have Sway Control, no matter what.

None are TRUE. Experienced towing is a learning experience of how to Avoid an Accident. Newbies... learn... and will become experienced.

Some Newbies tow as they drive... erratic and in a hurry. Add 25 feet of trailer and their mind forgets that a trailer in tow, changes physics and driving habits, immediately.

I see them everywhere. Wonderful that they are not towing at the time, as well. Yes... you see a 30 foot SOB being towed behind a small pickup and swaying out of control... these people exist. They add to the statistics that most towing a travel trailer recognize as... Idiots with no idea.

Fake News. Fake Stories. Salesmen selling the Fear and Pucker Factor.

Yes, experienced Drivers are involved in a single vehicle accident towing a travel trailer. Much like Airline Pilots with experience. Accident Reports may give you an idea how this happened. Often.. not.

Oliver Elite Trailers are the BEST TRAVEL TRAILER TO TOW ON THE BALL, I have owned. I have an oversized F350 Diesel 4x4. Any speed. Any wind. Cross wind, Down wind, Passing wind. A 4900# dry weight, go anywhere trailer.

Stock with 16 inch Michelins and four sets of leaf springs... oh my. ...and ruin your trailer.

Nervous? Then believe what you hear, been told, sold and sent down the road. That was me in 2006. I finally figured it out by... testing my tow vehicle and trailer with a Ball and solid Shank to slide into my F350 sleeve.

I discovered... I did not need all this stuff. Even the Weigh Safe WS4 2.5 inch shank, with a 2" and a 2 5/16" ball option. A a quick swap of either ball. If the Shank was two to three inches longer... I would try it for a test run locally. The shank is shorter than the Equalizer Hitch, so I use the Equalizer to tow the 27FBQ without SC and WD. Do not need either.

If you are a competent driver and have towing experience... Then begin talking Tires and Air Pressure and Tire Rating and... again... you discover that there are options that are not

There's a danger in what your socializing. Anecdotes like I've never needed a seat belt.

Understand that you are a seasoned Airstream owner. You may tacitly practice multiple things you're accustomed to like good weight balance in the trailer, slowing down before hills, respecting speed, and watching wind conditions.

A newbie is going to get multiple things wrong. And then without the added security of a WD hitch - I'm sure your advice is not meant to endanger anyone.

uncle_bob is absolutely right.

I've seen basic 8x10 cargo trailers cause an F350 to sway. Let alone a larger AS.

[hikingcamera]

Argumentum ad antiquitatem.

I am not knowledgeable enough to weigh in on towing with or without WDH in situations beyond my own. But since you raised the question of how we survived before….

How did we survive without doctors? Without penicillin? Without seatbelts and airbags? Without fire and shelter and tools of any kind? We used to allow slavery, should we do that again?

[Dennis C]

What’s the point of this thread? It seems to be posted as a sarcastic way of trying to begin a new argument on an old and controversial topic.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

What’s the point of this thread? It seems to be posted as a sarcastic way of trying to begin a new argument on an old and controversial topic.

Exactly!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Airstream Forums mobile app

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by jcl

Sadly, some didn't survive.

Looking at US deaths in motor vehicle crashes, comparing 1960 to 2020, the number of deaths went up (as the number of vehicles and population went up) but the deaths per 100,000 people, eg corrected for population, were cut by close to 50%. That was due to a lot more than sway control, but essentially, the highways are safer now than they used to be.

The Equalizer hitch went into production in 1945, so was already established in the 1960s.

If we look at deaths per 100,000,000 miles driven (or 1 billion km driven) the picture is much better. The probability of dying in a traffic accident has declined by more than 80% since the 1960s. It's reasonable to say that travelling by car has never been safer.

The fatality rate has stopped declining in recent years, however. Cell phone distractions? More widespread impairment, e.g. legalized marijuana? Driver aids are making drivers less attentive? Driving is getting too easy? The causal factors may be difficult to discern.

[mikeinca]

I did enjoy the video.

[Dennis C]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

I did enjoy the video.

I also enjoyed the video.

[Ray Eklund]

Vehicles REQUIRING WD and SC are needed for towing a heavy trailer... is the issue. This is a Pocket Book issue... limited funds to cover the cost of a tow vehicle after purchasing an oversized expensive trailer too large for the tow vehicle.

I had the small 2006 4.7L Tundra towing a 23 foot 2006 Safari... even with a hitch, WD and SC... not a great combo. No sway, but sure could bottom out the leaf springs. I towed for 2 years... and became an expert with a small tow vehicle towing an Airstream.

Bought a 2008 5.7L Tundra... and a better choice.

Those who choose to tow with an appropriate tow vehicle, that can easily Tow on the Ball is already well known. It is a choice. Where is this anger coming from if you do not?

I have been capable to Tow on the Ball, since 2016 purchasing a F350 4x4 Diesel to Tow. It took some denial needing SC and WD... but when I did tow on the ball... it was the best option to date.

Now I discover others who are towing on the Ball. Yes, I have worn a seat belt since I began driving at 15 years old and installed in a 1956 VW. Was that previous comment suppose to be... genius for the debate?

Boats larger and heavier than my Airstreams have no hitches and tow on the Ball. Some with triple axles. See them often on the Weekends. Should they be following this Thread as they could Wreck, Die or Kill an innocent bystander?

Note how some messages are short. Prove your point, if any. Posting one sentence indicates a lack of information. Not genius... E=MC2 is Genius.

We are talking Airstream Trailers and I also include Oliver. Not a 12 foot high, double axle with a boat attached and being towed with a 1/2 ton pickup with an ATV in the Bed.

Some may prefer a Fifth Wheel... and skip the Towing on the Ball debate.

No one is promoting anyone to Tow on the Ball. It is a choice and from experienced owners. There are many I would not ride with them as a passenger. They believe they are good drivers... and... I just want out of the vehicle.

I see thousands of automobiles in junk yards. I have seen one Airstream in a yard rolled onto one side. Obviously... being towed... but what was the story?

Has anyone actually SEEN and SPOKE with anyone towing an Airstream on the Ball and was in an accident? Did they explain why or how it happened?

Has anyone attended an Airstream Rally and spoke with someone who rolled their Airstream... towing on the Ball. We are patient. ...... Not hearsay.

I would wager $1 that most Airstream accidents have an expensive Hitch, SC and WD and at a larger ratio that those towing on the Ball.

Search: Airstream Accidents Towing on the Ball on a search.

******* 11-3-2019 So... ? These do not count.

Urgent Recall: 1,888 2019 to 2020 Nest, Flying Clouds, International Serenity, Signature and... other models.

"Airstream Trailers May Separate from Tow Vehicle: If the coupler separates from the tow ball, the trailer can detach from the tow vehicle increasing the risk of a crash." Airstream Jackson Center will notify owners and will send a temporary use adapter that can be slipped over the ball portion of the coupler to allow owners to tow their trailers."

THIS is an example... but the fault of the product, not towing on the Ball. Demco Ball Coupler... improper welding. ( I saw those on the Airstream Dealer's Lot... looked weird.)