Hitch Weight

[KeithMehrens]

Wow there's really nothing like tow vehicle question to get the juices following on this wonderful web site. I have a 19' Flying Cloud and ordered a Subaru Ascent to pull it. Living in Colorado and doing almost all travel west over high passes this was a very dubious choice. After many hours here and talking with my fellow firefighters that towed a lot in the mountains I changed to a Toyota Sequoia because it fits in my garage and can be used to haul more people then a truck. I think it's rated at 7300 LBS with 4X4 and really it's not too much cushion. F-150 is a better choice from a strictly towing criteria, however the Sequoia has been a very safe ride and pulls over the passes with ease. The tipping point for me was emergency stopping and I believe towing at or over capacity coming down a pass could prove to be very risky on a good day, add in diminished conditions from optimal and you could be in a very bad situation.

[SnowWanderer]

This is one reason why trying to reduce the tongue weight by repositioning articles in the trailer is not advised!

https://youtu.be/6mW_gzdh6to

[jcl]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Explain how a hitch changes or improves the vehicle payload. How is the OP's hitch rating mis-matched to the TV payload?

I also changed our hitch, nothing to do with payload though.
The poor design of the OEM just wouldn't move the weight needed with the lighter WD bars I wanted to use.

Bob
����

The issue the OP has isn’t payload. It is that the stock OE receiver may not be strong enough for WD equipment. They can change to one that is. Just as you upgraded yours. Yours wouldn’t move sufficient weight. Theirs can’t move any. When they do upgrade their receiver, they can then use the WD equipment to manage axle loads, up to the published TV ratings.

That allows them to access the payload capacity designed into the tow vehicle. They didn’t have access to all of it with the trailer just on the ball due to the bumper pull hitch location and inability to use WD.

The current mismatch is that they are unable to place effective hitch loads between the tow vehicle axles, where loads should normally be carried.

Yes, the OP asked how to reduce hitch weight. The correct answer is no, don’t do that, but you can successfully manage the effects of that hitch weight.

Aside from the ability to access their design payload capacity, the combination will be safer at the published 5000 lb tow rating.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by SnowWanderer

This is one reason why trying to reduce the tongue weight by repositioning articles in the trailer is not advised!

https://youtu.be/6mW_gzdh6to

Repositioning axles (and the boat itself) is standard practice on boat trailers. The loads, drawbar length, CoG, side surfaces subject to wind loads, etc, are completely different than a travel trailer.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by B. Cole

Isn't that wonderful.Why stop at 7-8 times a vehicles tow rating???
Why not double that, like14-16 times the tow rating, with a "Super Duper Extra Special " setup???

The 7 times quote illustrated the illogical nature of tow ratings on some vehicles. Instead of acknowledging that, you are doubling down on the manufacturer’s tow rating being relevant? LOL.

[PB_NB]

10 to 15% TW is the range to aim for with the higher percentage being more ideal.

As stated previously, if the trailer weighs 5,000 lbs then you would want to be able to achieve up to 15% TW or 750 lbs. This is where the challenge is with the OP's specs limiting this 5,000 lbs trailer to a 500 lbs TW. At the bottom of the range. Then, add to that, the higher speed limits over 60 mph and you have a potential sway episode.

I had one of those sway events with my Camplite many years ago and never what to recreate that. I was running under 10% TW and driving about 70 mph when I got passed by a tractor trailer. The little trailer started swaying but I didn't notice for a bit until I saw it dancing behind my car. I eased off and once I got the speed down to about 40 mph. It stopped swaying and we resumed at a much lower speed. We are thankful that this didn't end bad but it taught us a good first hand lesson.

Now, I focus on keeping the TW well over 10% (12.5% is usually where we sit).

Trucks will pass us on the highway but the trailer stays put. We are quite happy with that.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by B. Cole

Or...One could just bolt the hitch to a F-350, ( or, even better yet, a F-450/550 ) dually,drop the little Airstream trailer on the ball, and it will follow the leader.
No ( "special hitch setup") ,needed.
Bigger is always better..

I never get tired of “bigger is better” proponents responding to a question about setting up a combination involving one of the smallest and lightest Airstream trailers, to tell them to simply buy an F450 or 550 dually. It is just so helpful. And always an original thought.

Not.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by jcl

The issue the OP has isn’t payload. It is that the stock OE receiver may not be strong enough for WD equipment. They can change to one that is. Just as you upgraded yours. Yours wouldn’t move sufficient weight. Theirs can’t move any. When they do upgrade their receiver, they can then use the WD equipment to manage axle loads, up to the published TV ratings.

That allows them to access the payload capacity designed into the tow vehicle. They didn’t have access to all of it with the trailer just on the ball due to the bumper pull hitch location and inability to use WD.

The current mismatch is that they are unable to place effective hitch loads between the tow vehicle axles, where loads should normally be carried.

Yes, the OP asked how to reduce hitch weight. The correct answer is no, don’t do that, but you can successfully manage the effects of that hitch weight.

Aside from the ability to access their design payload capacity, the combination will be safer at the published 5000 lb tow rating.

How is that the hitch can't and the vehicle structure can...unless you Ass-u-me it to be and the manufacturer noze 'nut'n.
In addition, I don't see any way a safe 750lb TW is possible.

Respectfully ignorant..😂
Bob
🇺🇸

[takeiteasy]

Whenever I start thinking about weight maximums, TVs, and safety, and what I can "get away with", I always come back to the thought that, what if (God forbid) I get into an accident, and the insurance company and the highway patrol start to scrutinize the max weights and recommendations on my rig. This thought exercise always makes me start to lean a little bit more toward the more conservative side of things...

[WizardOfAZ]

You've had a ton of responses here, mostly saying your TV and AS are a mismatch. So you may not need any more, but I'll add mine anyway. My first setup towing was a 3500 pound trailer (about 5000 loaded) and a vehicle (Dodge Nitro) rated at a bit over 5000. I thought "good, rating exceeds trailer weight + load". I was new, didn't know anything, or at least not enough. It was ok on the flat but couldn't climb. Meaning it dropped to ridiculous low speeds climbing (annoying to me and guys behind, probably not safe) and also regularly overheated the tranny when on a long steep climb. Since then I've used the rule of thumb that TV rating needs to be about double dry trailer weight at least, if you want to climb easily and cool, and descend safely. Until you get used to it, it's unintuitive how fast the weight of the food, chairs, dog, etc etc add up. My two cents. Sorry.

[flyfshrmn]

Totally unsafe. Your TV is nowhere near the requirements for towing that trailer and altering the tow geometry to get to hitch weight requirements is a bad idea. Hitch weight and towing angles are critical to prevent sway and allow proper control of the trailer. Just adding the normal requirements for a camping weekend will far exceed the Ascent's capabilities. Get a TV that with tow specs that exceed the maximum loaded weight of the trailer. Murphy is always waiting in the weeds.

[superChop]

To date SEVEN pages of delightful advice and opinions.

Questions:
1. Did the OP state that he has a lot of camping experience and would like to upgrade from his current camping equipment? Is he using a tent, tent trailer, etc.? I could not find that answer. Advice on using a smaller, lighter non-AS trailer is excellent for budgeting and evaluation of how much they enjoy the camping experience. As someone else mentioned, we spent the formative years with our children in three different brands and sizes of tent trailers traveling all over the West coast, before deciding on AS in 2015 as a retirement tool to see the country and family and friends dispersed all over the country.

2. Not sure I saw advice to OP to research some you tube channels with folks towing similar size and weights of targeted Bambi. TFL Trucks and Big Trucks, Big RV’s both do a great job of providing towing advice, but focus more on trucks than sedans.

3. Where are Bambi’s found? Rarely at the RV parks, including AS parks, we visit. Perhaps state and national parks as well as boondocking? The two Bambi’s we did see were at Top of Georgia and Int’l Rally in Doswell, VA in ‘19. BOTH of these owners were welcomed to visit several longer AS’s and decided to purchase a longer AS for future camping comfort and pleasure, which impacts capability of TV.

Recommend visiting state parks with smaller travel trailers at these parks and see what the owners are using to tow those trailers. Our personal experience - we have seen ONE Subaru (WRX) towing travel trailers in our two/towing cross country trips. Obviously, this does not mean they are not out there, but ????

4. CanAm is a recognized expert in providing towing advice. Has anyone seen some of the rigs they have setup? We have seen two: a. A single axle Bambi towed by a Subaru WRX (with several wires located on the back of the car), and a 34 foot, triple axle Excella with an Infiniti version of the Armada. Our opinions only - we would not feel comfortable or safe with either of these setups. NOTE: owners of the TV’s were happy with their setups.

[Native143]

You don't need a big truck to tow your 19'. Get e big truck and you can't feel the smaller trailer behind you. My friends tow with a Chevy Colorado. I tow my 20'with a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Overkill on TV is not necessary. But do consider all the other remarks about hitch weight and TV capacity.

[JMcin]

Originally Posted by dowee_1223

Hi everyone, I recently ordered a AS Bambi 19cb. My TV, a 2021 Subaru Ascent has a max tow of 5000 and hitch weight of 500. I realized that the bambi has a tongue weight of 520. Any recommendation on how to reduce the hitch weight? I’m a newbie to towing a trailer.

Well, I finally have a chance tell someone about my Subaru Ascent experience. I have a similar setup. A 2020 Caravel 19CB pulled by my 2020 Subaru Ascent. I bought the Subaru first, then the Airstream. After asking lots of questions and researching the TV, I decided to try that combination, realizing I might have to go with a larger vehicle. I am happy to say, I was blown away with the Subaru’s ability to do the job. On the highway, acceleration up entrance ramps is awesome and for passing vehicles it is quick and sure. On hills it does equally well. It performs much better than Iexpected. I have the heavy duty hitch with WD and sway control. Also, in a construction zone with no shoulders, I topped a hill and a car ahead had come to a complete stop to turn left on to a dirt road. Oncoming traffic was bumper to bumper traffic. With no where to go, (heavy equipment and workers on the right) all I could do was slam on the brakes and hope for the best. The vehicle and AS brakes did their jobs and, fortunately traffic behind me was able to stop also. Thank God for the brake systems. Anyway, I have only been on 4 trips so far, and time will tell if the vehicle brakes, transmission, suspension, etc., will hold up. I realize I am pushing the limits (technically speaking) of the TV, and maybe in the future a larger vehicle might be a better choice. For now, I’m a happy camper.

[DE Baldwin]

Hi
We had a 2020 Subaru Assent. I loved the car but reality set in when it came to trailer towing. We had a Coleman trailer with a gross weight of 4,800 Lbs and hitch weight of 400Lbs. There was just not enough of a safety margin so we replaced it with a LR Discovery (LRD).... big mistake! The car had the capability 8,000/770. It was horrible, Informant/navigation very unreliable, horrible service support and the list goes on.

We have an Airstream FC23FB on order expecting it in July 2021.

We replaced the LRD with an Audi Q7 (7,700/770). So far, I am very pleased the the car. From my research, it appears to be a vey capable SUV.

[renderit]

I didn't read all 7 pages but hopefully I will not repeat something already said.

Please also consider the WEAR on the TV.

You will be replacing expensive parts MUCH more quickly when they are not DESIGNED to do the job.

If you are getting marginal "I am within the limits" but pushing the upper end wear WILL occur faster.

"The straw which broke the camels back" is a quote for a reason.

[dowee_1223]

Thank you for all the input. 2021 Silverado Trail Boss

[Andrew T]

I like the black one.

[dowee_1223]

Yea, me too

[Fungus]

Previous post mentioned the angle of the trailer to the tow vehicle.

Make sure that the trailer is level when hitched. I installed the lift kit but but did not adjust the hitch. We took a short trip of a little over an hour and experienced one sway event. It wasn’t drastic but it made me slow down to 55 for the last half hour or so. At the campsite I adjusted the hitch. This was on an E2 with F-150 and 25-er.