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Old 06-15-2020, 05:54 AM   #41
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2019 33' Classic
townsend , Tennessee
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 88
Hitch

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfphoto View Post
We are jumping in to Airstreaming with our first trailer setup. Currently awaiting delivery of a 2021 Globetrotter 30RB in a week or so. We've decided on a tow vehicle, the GMC Denali 2500HD with 6.6L Duramax. Now, moving on to a hitch.

The GT30RB has a GTWR of 8800# and a tongue weight of 1050#.

I know that there is a huge following for the ProPride P3 hitch. I get it. The PP seems to be universally adored. But.... on top of everything else, I'm hesitant to drop another $3K on a hitch. And one that seems to take some finesse to master. For our first go around, we'd like to start off with a standard friction ball hitch < $1K. To that end, we're looking for recommendations. So far, I've heard decent things about Blue Ox and Equal-i-zer.
Congratulations on your new purchases! We bought our 2020 Denali 2500 this past November and already have about 4,000 towing miles on it with a 2019 Classic 33'.

The 2020 GMCs are amazing compared to the earlier versions. They are more like a 3500 (1 ton) with 3,000 lb payload capacity, 18,500 lb towing capacity, and a conventional tongue weight capacity of 1,850 lbs. In addition, their updated towing app and other features make towing a breeze.

As for the hitch, we just upgraded from an Equalizer 1,400/14,000 lb system to a Blue Ox 2,000/20,000 lb system. Both are great systems. Our reason for upgrading is that our trailer's tongue weight turned out to be much more than the specifications or the dealer suggested. With a full tank of water and only partially stocked, our tongue weight came in at 1,640 lbs. Equalizer goes up to 1,600 lbs. Any more than that you have to purchase a separate sway control system. Blue Ox makes a wonderful system where all the components are common except for the torsion bars, which are interchangeable. For this reason we went to the Blue Ox.

No matter Equalizer, Blu Ox, PP, etc., it's all about a proper set-up. Know your ACTUAL weights before you buy - if possible. Do not go by the specifications or the dealer. If your set-up is done correctly, you will never have a problem. Yes, some hitches may be better than others, but these more expensive set-ups ofter cover up basic errors.

Your truck has all the modern features needed for a safe towing experience. It is way more truck than you need and you will thoroughly enjoy it.

Be sure to get the right amount of weight distribution for safe driving.

Given your truck and trailer, you should focus on your tongue weight. There are several things that lead to trailer sway, with one of the key ones being too light a tongue weight. The rule of thumb is to have your tongue weigh between 10% to 15% of the gross wight of the trailer. Again - these are actual and not specification weights. As long as you are in this range (I would suggest closer to 15% is better for a larger trailer as long as the trailer is level - both trailer axels should have equal weight on them) you should have a great experience towing as long as you focus on the weight distribution side of the equation. We found that although our 2500 can handle a lot of weight, at 1,640 lbs we needed to get a bit more weight back onto the front wheels.

Here is where I think Blue Ox excels over the others - weight distribution flexibility. First let me say that this flexibility is not always needed and depends on your trailer. Ours just so happens to be very sensitive to the amount of water we carry. With the Blue Ox you have a fair amount of adjustment just by selecting which chain link to use when tensioning the torsion bars. Even better, if you need to go over the capacity of the bars, you can simply change to a higher rated bar with no tools.

There is so much written about towing both good and bad on these sites. What I can say for certain is that in your situation, getting the proper load onto your front wheels is going to be the most important part of your set-up.

Please be safe and do not hesitate to reach our if I can be of further help. Airstream Engineering department is a great help when you get into questions about the weight of the trailer and its impact on towing. These are things rarely discussed, but vitally important if you just so happen to have a trailer that doesn't fit into the normal distribution.
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Old 06-15-2020, 05:57 AM   #42
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The instability is at the articulation point. It is the design and location of the ball and coupler. WD and sway dampers address the weakness in the design of the hitch. Many vehicles, and especially modern trucks handle better with modest to heavy WD tension where most or all front axle load is returned. WD reduces vertical and lateral tension on the hitch, twist is increased.
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Old 06-15-2020, 05:59 AM   #43
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2019 33' Classic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfphoto View Post
The AirSafe looks very interesting!

Pardon my ignorance, but is the AirSafe the actual hitch and I'm adding the Reece WD/anti-sway system? Or are they both hitches? Same question regarding the Equal-i-zer and AirSafe.
AirSafe is basically a receiver on an air bag. You have to bolt your ball mount system onto the AirSafe. Two options: (1) traditional ball mount or (2) weight distribution mount - which is really a drop shank that bolts to the AirSafe. You then bolt your WD ball mount to the shank.

By the way, it is a great system and works as advertised. We love ours. Just watch that if you use the WD set-up, you will have to derate the tongue capacity by 15% as the WD shank moves the ball a bit further reward.
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Old 06-15-2020, 07:08 AM   #44
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Snip quote()..."Two trucks later and the need is not there today to replace it."

Except possibly for a well designed and executed receiver.🤔

Bob
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Is this mount arm able to easily provide the leverage for proper WD?
Or am I not seeing this correctly?
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Old 06-15-2020, 07:56 AM   #45
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Analysis paralysis setting in. Boy, these threads offer up lots of information, that is for sure. Thanks to Wulfraat for posting actual experience when towing with three different hitches.
I am one of those who has only towed with an Equalizer and so I can only share my experiences. The PP indeed has some advantages as Wulfraat has mentioned. I tow a 2fFB with a Tundra and my setup works well for me. If I went with a larger TV and/or a larger trailer my experience might be different. For me, mine works.
Just got back yesterday from a 750 mile trip. Very high winds in the Columbia Gorge and never felt white knuckled at all. We actually passed an accident where a travel trailer was on its side in the ditch. Not many parts left intact. There were some sections of concrete highway that was pretty rough and yes, it did translate to the trailer. These parts of road are tough on my truck when it isn't towing. Hate concrete sectioned highways.
My hitch is stiff, yes. But, I don't have things shaking loose in the trailer and my ride inside the truck is not bad. Read years ago that using an Equalizer can, and probably will, crack some of the aluminum panels in the body. I have never seen this actually happening. I also like the fact that I can lift my hitch without much trouble and I find hooking up pretty easy.
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Old 06-15-2020, 07:58 AM   #46
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The Bolt locations, distance between them the perpendicular bolt pattern, the welded stiffener plus the mount to bed all indicate it would exceed the stiffness of the receiver mount bar which is what you want in a good design. You want the component and not the mount to break or flex first. I could run the math, but I'm 95% sure how it will turn out.
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Old 06-15-2020, 11:25 AM   #47
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2020 30’ Globetrotter
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Super helpful. Thank you!

Your Classic 33 is a fair amount heavier than our GT30 with a bit more length too. So that gives me some greater confidence in our TV/TT combo.

I'm leaning towards an AirSafe with Reese Straight Line Dual cam, but now am a bit confused if I just use a standard ball on the AirSafe V, or if I need to step up to the AirSafe Class VI with the WD mount. Ultimately, I want our AS dealer to install the hitch on the GT before we pick up. Looks like I'll need to get the AirSafe put on the truck on my own since they only sell direct.

Any thoughts on what specific items I need? AirSafe order form attached below.

I don't have the trailer yet, so can't determine exact tongue weight. And if I wait to weigh, I have no way to tow the trailer the 2 hours from the AS dealer. Ugh.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BryonJ View Post
Congratulations on your new purchases! We bought our 2020 Denali 2500 this past November and already have about 4,000 towing miles on it with a 2019 Classic 33'.

The 2020 GMCs are amazing compared to the earlier versions. They are more like a 3500 (1 ton) with 3,000 lb payload capacity, 18,500 lb towing capacity, and a conventional tongue weight capacity of 1,850 lbs. In addition, their updated towing app and other features make towing a breeze.

As for the hitch, we just upgraded from an Equalizer 1,400/14,000 lb system to a Blue Ox 2,000/20,000 lb system. Both are great systems. Our reason for upgrading is that our trailer's tongue weight turned out to be much more than the specifications or the dealer suggested. With a full tank of water and only partially stocked, our tongue weight came in at 1,640 lbs. Equalizer goes up to 1,600 lbs. Any more than that you have to purchase a separate sway control system. Blue Ox makes a wonderful system where all the components are common except for the torsion bars, which are interchangeable. For this reason we went to the Blue Ox.

No matter Equalizer, Blu Ox, PP, etc., it's all about a proper set-up. Know your ACTUAL weights before you buy - if possible. Do not go by the specifications or the dealer. If your set-up is done correctly, you will never have a problem. Yes, some hitches may be better than others, but these more expensive set-ups ofter cover up basic errors.

Your truck has all the modern features needed for a safe towing experience. It is way more truck than you need and you will thoroughly enjoy it.

Be sure to get the right amount of weight distribution for safe driving.

Given your truck and trailer, you should focus on your tongue weight. There are several things that lead to trailer sway, with one of the key ones being too light a tongue weight. The rule of thumb is to have your tongue weigh between 10% to 15% of the gross wight of the trailer. Again - these are actual and not specification weights. As long as you are in this range (I would suggest closer to 15% is better for a larger trailer as long as the trailer is level - both trailer axels should have equal weight on them) you should have a great experience towing as long as you focus on the weight distribution side of the equation. We found that although our 2500 can handle a lot of weight, at 1,640 lbs we needed to get a bit more weight back onto the front wheels.

Here is where I think Blue Ox excels over the others - weight distribution flexibility. First let me say that this flexibility is not always needed and depends on your trailer. Ours just so happens to be very sensitive to the amount of water we carry. With the Blue Ox you have a fair amount of adjustment just by selecting which chain link to use when tensioning the torsion bars. Even better, if you need to go over the capacity of the bars, you can simply change to a higher rated bar with no tools.

There is so much written about towing both good and bad on these sites. What I can say for certain is that in your situation, getting the proper load onto your front wheels is going to be the most important part of your set-up.

Please be safe and do not hesitate to reach our if I can be of further help. Airstream Engineering department is a great help when you get into questions about the weight of the trailer and its impact on towing. These are things rarely discussed, but vitally important if you just so happen to have a trailer that doesn't fit into the normal distribution.
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Old 06-15-2020, 12:17 PM   #48
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2020 30’ Globetrotter
Plantation , Florida
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Just spoke to AirSafe directly.

Looks like I do need the WD bracket to work with Reese Straight Line, which pushes me to the Class VI since the TW rating drops by 25%. This also has the benefit of the additional shocks to reduce oscillation. And if I want a native 2.5" receiver, I'd have to step up from the VI to VII. Otherwise, I'll have to use the 2.5" to 2" reducer sleeve on the truck receiver.
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Old 06-16-2020, 06:04 AM   #49
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2019 33' Classic
townsend , Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfphoto View Post
Just spoke to AirSafe directly.

Looks like I do need the WD bracket to work with Reese Straight Line, which pushes me to the Class VI since the TW rating drops by 25%. This also has the benefit of the additional shocks to reduce oscillation. And if I want a native 2.5" receiver, I'd have to step up from the VI to VII. Otherwise, I'll have to use the 2.5" to 2" reducer sleeve on the truck receiver.
Hi,

A few things:

AirSafe does sell a Class VI with a 2-1/2" receiver. Following is a link to a thread on AirSafe set-ups. In it is a picture of our set-up along with a snap shot of the invoice showing the part number for the 2-1/2" receiver Class VI version. Also in this thread are some discussions about handling the AirSAfe. It is heavy, especially once you bolt on the WD hitch. I bought the transmission jack shown from Harbor Freight - it works great.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f23...re-208165.html

Yes, you do need the weight distribution bracket and it is a 25% reduction in tongue weight capacity not towing capacity. In other words, the Class VI can still tow a 20,000lb load, but only handle a 1,500 lb tongue weight when used with a weight distribution bracket. This is because the distance to the fulcrum is now longer (the hitch ball is moved further reward).

Please be sure to know your actual tongue weight. Airstream only gives you an empty weight and depending on the layout, you will find significant differences. Your layout appears to balance the weight better than ours. But until you load the trailer and weigh it, you don't really know. A couple of options for weighing are to use the CAT scales or buy a tongue weight scale - eTralier has a couple of nice ones for sale. https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/etrailer/e99044.html

As for the Reese hitch, I can't really comment on it as I have no experience with it or any of their products. You certainly see a lot of them around, especially at dealers. Again, we went with the Blue Ox for flexibility, ease of use, and capacity.


Best of luck and happy travels. You will love the Denali ride when towing.

Here is a response from Airstream on the concerns I had with our trailer. Some good information in here.

"Bryon,

Thank you for the letter concerning the hitch weight on your Classic trailer. It has always been our belief that having more hitch weight always provides a better towing experience. When we engineer the chassis and the placement of the axles we do so with a 15% hitch weight factor in mind. As you stated the rule of thumb is to be 10% to 15% of the total weight. When loaded if you end up at 17% you will not notice any difference in your towing experience and it will not damage the trailer in any way. The main concern is when you get below that 10% barrier sway situations may occur. I have towed many trailers that were close and a little under that towed just fine as long as the hitch set up is correct.

I understand that most of the storage in a 33 Classic is in front of the axles and always something you want to be mindful of when traveling as you are. You probably noticed that even though you add 100 lbs. to the trailer near the front it does not equate to an additional 100 lbs. of tongue weight. It is dispersed a little throughout the floor of the trailer and not just on the tongue.

We always tell our owners to carry the fresh water they think they will need to get to their destination. You are just carrying extra weight. Unless you plan on camping off the grid then the trailer will handle the full tank.

To provide the best towing experience you want the trailer and the tow vehicle to be as level as they sit without being hooked together. Meaning that when I hook up a trailer to the tow vehicle the first thing I do is measure the fender areas of the tow vehicle and the hitch height of the trailer when everything is level to make sure that after I hook them together I am as close to these heights as I can be. This will allow your tow vehicle to provide the same type of stability as it does when not hooked to a trailer. The shocks, etc. still have the same travel experience. In order to obtain this level hook up the weight distribution hitch is essential. If the weight is not distributed evenly than the tow vehicle will have a light feeling front end and the back will be sagging a bit. Remember when the weight distribution hitch is used it is actually transferring some of the hitch weight to the front of the tow vehicle to even out the distribution. So when just measuring the hitch weight while the trailer is on a scale does not necessarily mean that exact hitch weight is present when the weight distribution set is installed.

Depending on the tow vehicle and hitch used sometimes it is impossible to get the trailer height exactly as it is when not hooked up. The hole placement on the hitch tow bar may require the trailer has to ride a bit higher or lower as this bar has 1 inch adjustment points. This will change the weight slightly so trying to dial in an exact weight just to comply with a percentage will not always be accurate.

To sum this up the trailer will not be damaged nor is there any danger if perhaps you are just over that 15% weight as long as the total overall gross weight of the trailer is not compromised. Remember the brakes are rated for total weight and not hitch weight and they are rated for quite a bit more than the gross weight of the trailer. As long as it is level and one axle is not carrying the majority of the load the brakes are just fine. The shell, chassis and a-frame are as well.

I hope I answered your questions, If not let me know.

Sincerely,

Rick March
GM – Customer Relations Group
Airstream Inc.
937-596-6111 ext. 7416"
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Old 06-16-2020, 01:10 PM   #50
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2020 30’ Globetrotter
Plantation , Florida
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Byron,

Did you purchase the AirSafe from airsafehitch.com or airsafehitches.com?

I still can't find the Class VI with 2.5" receiver.
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:27 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
The instability is at the articulation point. It is the design and location of the ball and coupler. WD and sway dampers address the weakness in the design of the hitch. Many vehicles, and especially modern trucks handle better with modest to heavy WD tension where most or all front axle load is returned. WD reduces vertical and lateral tension on the hitch, twist is increased.
The vehicle manufacturers sets the limit on WDH tension (FALR) to be used. Consumers should follow this just as they should follow the weight ratings of the vehicle.
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Old 06-17-2020, 06:40 AM   #52
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2019 33' Classic
townsend , Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfphoto View Post
Byron,

Did you purchase the AirSafe from airsafehitch.com or airsafehitches.com?

I still can't find the Class VI with 2.5" receiver.
It’s not listed on their web site. You have to ask for it. Jeff told me that they were going to add it in the near future. Here is the model # and contact info.

06090 $1,480

AirSafe Hitch

It seems they sell through other companies rather than directly through AirSafe.

Jeff Wilkens (Air Tech Hitches)
701-277-0510
Jeff.wilkens@epicsoftware.biz
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Old 06-17-2020, 07:15 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd View Post
The vehicle manufacturers sets the limit on WDH tension (FALR) to be used. Consumers should follow this just as they should follow the weight ratings of the vehicle.
Is it really a "limit"? More likely a hint.
It would be a bit scary if it is, 'this vehicle is only designed for a specified FALR" regardless of how your set-up is handling.

No thank you...I prefer to be just 100lb under un-hitched FAW...for us that is the safest and best performing option.

Bob
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Old 06-17-2020, 07:29 AM   #54
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Like the Pirate Code of Honor, it is more like a guideline......
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Old 06-17-2020, 07:30 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd View Post
The vehicle manufacturers sets the limit on WDH tension (FALR) to be used. Consumers should follow this just as they should follow the weight ratings of the vehicle.
OK, I am indeed curious. Where do you find manufacturers' limits for trucks on this? I do not recall seeing anything other than axle ratings and instructions on how to return front-end lift back to pre-trailer position.

Larry
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:11 AM   #56
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Importance of trailer level

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryonJ View Post

To provide the best towing experience you want the trailer and the tow vehicle to be as level as they sit without being hooked together. Meaning that when I hook up a trailer to the tow vehicle the first thing I do is measure the fender areas of the tow vehicle and the hitch height of the trailer when everything is level to make sure that after I hook them together I am as close to these heights as I can be. This will allow your tow vehicle to provide the same type of stability as it does when not hooked to a trailer. The shocks, etc. still have the same travel experience. In order to obtain this level hook up the weight distribution hitch is essential. If the weight is not distributed evenly than the tow vehicle will have a light feeling front end and the back will be sagging a bit. ...

Depending on the tow vehicle and hitch used sometimes it is impossible to get the trailer height exactly as it is when not hooked up. The hole placement on the hitch tow bar may require the trailer has to ride a bit higher or lower as this bar has 1 inch adjustment points. This will change the weight slightly so trying to dial in an exact weight just to comply with a percentage will not always be accurate.
...

I hope I answered your questions, If not let me know.

Sincerely,

Rick March
GM – Customer Relations Group
Airstream Inc.
937-596-6111 ext. 7416"
This quote from Rick March of Airstream underlines what is sometimes forgotten, and that is making sure that the Airstream is level. This is crucially important given its impact on the proper operation of the Dexter suspension system and braking (as well as even tire wear).

WD clearly contributes to the levelling of the trailer, but given that the weight of what we carry in the towing vehicle will vary (short trips, long trips, etc.), the vertical displacement of the towing vehicle will vary accordingly, thereby affecting the level of the trailer which cannot always be fully compensated by the WD hitch -- especially if you expect to significantly raise the back of a fully loaded 22' long 3/4 or 1 ton pickup.

I have an Equalizer hitch with 1200# bars and it was not reasonable to modify the hitch head by adding or removing washers every time the load in the bed of the pickup increased or decreased. It is for this reason that I added rear airbags on my truck to fine tune the levelling of the trailer without compromising WD and sway control. I can manage the trailer's level within a 1/4" and it rides perfectly. Now I have full control of WD, sway control and trailer leveling.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:29 AM   #57
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We have a 20ft trailer and our tow v is a ram 1500 with the equalizer hitch. Hitch is easy to hook up and we've never had any issues with it. Tow's like there is nothing behind. I personally love it.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:37 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfphoto View Post
We are jumping in to Airstreaming with our first trailer setup. Currently awaiting delivery of a 2021 Globetrotter 30RB in a week or so. We've decided on a tow vehicle, the GMC Denali 2500HD with 6.6L Duramax. Now, moving on to a hitch.

The GT30RB has a GTWR of 8800# and a tongue weight of 1050#.

I know that there is a huge following for the ProPride P3 hitch. I get it. The PP seems to be universally adored. But.... on top of everything else, I'm hesitant to drop another $3K on a hitch. And one that seems to take some finesse to master. For our first go around, we'd like to start off with a standard friction ball hitch < $1K. To that end, we're looking for recommendations. So far, I've heard decent things about Blue Ox and Equal-i-zer.
We have a 2019 ford diesel and went with the gen-y torsion hitch for our 30ft bunk model. Couldn't be happier, the ride isolation really works! We have towed over 7K miles with it so far, and will never go back to a hard hitch.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:40 AM   #59
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Great plan Hermes, WD and sway requirements are a function of the trailer and the mean payload of the vehicle so if the trailer weight and distribution does not change, once WD and sway control is dialed in, there is little incentive to change it to accommodate some payload variation. Yet trailer level is important. What a great way to deal with this.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:46 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
OK, I am indeed curious. Where do you find manufacturers' limits for trucks on this? I do not recall seeing anything other than axle ratings and instructions on how to return front-end lift back to pre-trailer position.

Larry
It’s in the owner manual and towing guide I believe.
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