RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-05-2012, 06:12 PM   #21
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,166
I am still running my ProPride but my thinking has shifted somewhat. I am currently of the opinion that the considerably greater numbers of Reese dual-cam hitches on the road provides for a greater level of confidence in the structural integrity of the hitch than it is possible to achieve with niche-market hitches. There's been one publicly reported structural weld failure with ProPride, which I find frightening.

The extended length of the shank, as measured from the receiver pin to the center of the ball, also places additional force on the receiver, which may increase the risk of weld failure on the receiver components. Who knows. It's not the use case that the receiver manufacturers test for.

NHTSA statistics show that the most common cause of fatalities involving trailers (with hitches of all kinds) is not sway but separation of the trailer from the tow vehicle, usually due either to weld failure, mismatched ball and coupler sizes, or failure to lock the coupler.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 07:02 PM   #22
GaRoc
 
2011 27 FB International
Dawsonville , Georgia
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 30
I have the Pro Pride and think that the trailer jack is the most helpful item when hitching or un-hitching. Take the weight off everything with the trailer jack, and adjusting the ProPride to the correct screw-jack position then becomes a no brainer. I made a little "ruler" that I place aside of the screw jack tube of the Pro Pride, and I bring the upper tube to that level each time - in my case 6 inches. perfect adjustment and just raise the trailer jack high enough so that even a weak electric drill can bring the bar adjustment to the perfect height. Easy!
RoccoJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 07:27 PM   #23
Rivet Master
 
StreamNTyme's Avatar
 
2007 25' Safari FB SE
2000 30' Excella
1999 30' Excella 1000
Carolina Low Country , South Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 773
Images: 27
Jammer,
We have first hand experience that the Reese dual cam hitches are only good to a point, at which they hitch is useless, our opinion. In our accident the anti sway bars were never found, but the chains were still attached. We will never get on the road w/o the Hensley. Reese never responded to our emails.
__________________
StreamNTyme
StreamNTyme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 08:56 PM   #24
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
I am still running my ProPride but my thinking has shifted somewhat. I am currently of the opinion that the considerably greater numbers of Reese dual-cam hitches on the road provides for a greater level of confidence in the structural integrity of the hitch than it is possible to achieve with niche-market hitches. There's been one publicly reported structural weld failure with ProPride, which I find frightening.

The extended length of the shank, as measured from the receiver pin to the center of the ball, also places additional force on the receiver, which may increase the risk of weld failure on the receiver components. Who knows. It's not the use case that the receiver manufacturers test for.

NHTSA statistics show that the most common cause of fatalities involving trailers (with hitches of all kinds) is not sway but separation of the trailer from the tow vehicle, usually due either to weld failure, mismatched ball and coupler sizes, or failure to lock the coupler.
Wellll, maybe, but the drawbar (stinger) for my Reese dual cam was recalled and replaced due to potential for breaking in two......so not necessarily.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #25
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,166
Yes, a few of them broke and there was a recall. Reese uses the same hitch head for their basic WD hitches, also, as I understand it, and there are hundreds of thousands of them on the road.

I believe ProPride has stated that there are about 3,000 of their hitches in use. There has been one weld failure. There has been no recall. I like the odds on Reese much better.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 12:48 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
That's fine...I'm not knocking either one.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #27
Rivet Master
 
2006 22' International CCD
2007 Base Camp
Elk Valley , British Columbia
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
I am still running my ProPride but my thinking has shifted somewhat. I am currently of the opinion that the considerably greater numbers of Reese dual-cam hitches on the road provides for a greater level of confidence in the structural integrity of the hitch than it is possible to achieve with niche-market hitches. There's been one publicly reported structural weld failure with ProPride, which I find frightening.

The extended length of the shank, as measured from the receiver pin to the center of the ball, also places additional force on the receiver, which may increase the risk of weld failure on the receiver components. Who knows. It's not the use case that the receiver manufacturers test for.

NHTSA statistics show that the most common cause of fatalities involving trailers (with hitches of all kinds) is not sway but separation of the trailer from the tow vehicle, usually due either to weld failure, mismatched ball and coupler sizes, or failure to lock the coupler.
There is a certain design issue that you've highlighted with almost all WD hitches... the goal is to reduce the weight on the hitch, but you are adding 100 to 200 lbs of crap even further back. Then, you've increased the levered distance because of the length...

THEN, you crank up the bars to shift some weight to at least get you past where you started without all this stuff.

What would be neat, is longitudinal fresh water tanks in the trailer with maybe 5 compartments, and a pump system to keep it balanced (as far a percentage weight on the ball). Moving 150lbs from ahead of my axle to behind it would bring me into perfect trim. Or more ironically, a Hensley would work better for me (WD wise) if I welded it to the back of my Airstream.

The Andersen hitch addresses these concerns of mine, but they haven't replied to my emails on shipping to Canada... Oh well...
Friday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 04:32 PM   #28
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
A PP and Hensley don't add to TW once hitched up. Think about it......before you come unglued. Once your hitched the weight of all that "stuff" is truck payload weight. Your tongue weight is what is on the ball, not on the stinger. Just because it is "stored" on the tongue, doesn't make it tongue weight once hitched.

If I stored my Reese drawbar on the coupler....it doesn't become tongue weight when I hitch it up.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 04:47 PM   #29
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
A PP and Hensley don't add to TW once hitched up. Think about it......before you come unglued. Once your hitched the weight of all that "stuff" is truck payload weight. Your tongue weight is what is on the ball, not on the stinger. Just because it is "stored" on the tongue, doesn't make it tongue weight once hitched.
Oh Boy! I just love a good argument!

If it's not tongue weight, it's got to be weight on the back of the truck, or does it magically disapear?????

The fact is the hitch weighs about 200 pounds, and it's there no mater if you call it tongue weight, or weight carried by the truck...it's still there and MUST be calculated into the total load.
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 05:00 PM   #30
Rivet Master
 
Ag&Au's Avatar
 
Port Orchard , Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,464
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
A PP and Hensley don't add to TW once hitched up. Think about it......before you come unglued. Once your hitched the weight of all that "stuff" is truck payload weight. Your tongue weight is what is on the ball, not on the stinger. Just because it is "stored" on the tongue, doesn't make it tongue weight once hitched.

If I stored my Reese drawbar on the coupler....it doesn't become tongue weight when I hitch it up.
I realize that this is a combination of semantics and chicken and egg. However here is how I look at it.

First of all lets disregard weight distribution and look at when the trailer is first coupled. The hitch on the back of a tow vehicle is rated in lbs of tongue weight (among other things) What exactly does that mean? Since the truck comes new with a bare hitch receiver. I say that anything that is added that bears down on that receiver is tongue weight. That must include the stinger since the manufacturer has no control over what is used there. So it doesn't really matter that part of the ProPride is hanging from the trailer hitch socket or not. Those pounds of weight are a downward force on the hitch receiver. Therefore they must be part of tongue weight counted against the rating. I am sure you must agree that, if I build a giant steel block stinger weighing 500 lbs, I have used up 500 lbs of my tongue weight rating. To me the mass of the ProPride is no different.

The unfortunate thing is that they chose to call it tongue weight, when it would have been more appropriately called vertical hitch load.

Ken
Ag&Au is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 06:06 PM   #31
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Oh Boy! I just love a good argument!

If it's not tongue weight, it's got to be weight on the back of the truck, or does it magically disapear?????

The fact is the hitch weighs about 200 pounds, and it's there no mater if you call it tongue weight, or weight carried by the truck...it's still there and MUST be calculated into the total load.
Uh...that's what I said!
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 06:11 PM   #32
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
Yes, it is counted in axle load, receiver capacity calculation, GCWR, GVWR, but not tongue weight. That is a trailer weight figure. You're right it is semantics, but there must be a particular name for precise calculations to be meaningful, or you have chaos...wait...that's what we have. Nevermind.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 06:11 PM   #33
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Uh...that's what I said!
OK, it's weight the truck has to carry that just happens to be on, or about, the hitch ball.
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 06:14 PM   #34
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
OK, it's weight the truck has to carry that just happens to be on, or about, the hitch ball.
No, on the receiver and the coupler rests on the ball.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #35
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
On the ProPride, the bulk of the weight is centered about 19-20" behind the receiver....right about where the ball is.
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 09:29 PM   #36
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
Steve, I'm not trying to be difficult. Let me explain why this is an important point of distinction of where and how weights affect components.

When I added a Hensley and a bike rack and bikes to the front end of the AS, my measured tongue weight (a TRAILER SPEC) went from 850# to 1150#. This is with the Hensley hanging from the receiver and unhitched. AS says my maximum allowable tongue weight is 1000#.
I am a believer in stated specs...period. (OK, for the most part)
I could bore you with all the math and the weights of the HAHA components that I got from Hensley, and how much of that is 100% receiver weight and how much is shared between receiver weight and tongue weight....etc. But I won't. Unless you really want it.
Bottom line, with understanding where the load is while hitched up is important in rearranging stuff to meet spec.

In my case, after accounting for the "false" tongue weight while unhitched and rearranging some items in the AS, I got back down to 900# ACTUAL tongue weight on the ball of the HAHA. That satisfies the AS TW spec.

Ken is absolutely right, the receiver Mfrs, should call their spec "total vertical load", which would be TW + stinger + HAHA Head + a portion of the spring bar and strut weight. This is also important to GRAWR and GVWR as well.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 09:34 PM   #37
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
And if you had been using a hitch like the Andersen that weighs 65 pounds, that by the way is mostly attached to the stinger, not the tongue of the trailer, your tongue weight would have been what?
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 09:39 PM   #38
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
Not interested. I have what I really, really like.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 09:41 PM   #39
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
I like my ProPride also, but realize the fact that it weighs over 200 pounds and that weight is right at the hitch coupler.
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 09:51 PM   #40
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,921
Images: 5
No, most of the weight is at the receiver....while hitched up. Weight on the ball through the coupler is a portion of the struts, a portion of the spring bars, all of the jacks, and all of the jack brackets. NONE of the head nor stinger weight is TW...it is receiver borne weight.

In my case, with the HAHA, of the total weight of all the components is 207.5#. Of that 99#s is the head (all receiver weight..zero TW while hitched), 41# is stinger weight (again zero TW, all receiver weight) That leaves 67.5# of weight for the Jacks, Jack brackets, spring bars and struts. I SWAG that 3/4 of that is TW and 1/4 is receiver weight, as the struts and spring bar weights are shared between TW and receiver load.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.