Hensley or Propride

[2airishuman]

with ALL travel trailers it's important/critical that the trailer brakes ENGAGE before the tow vehicle...

hitch type is irrelevant in that regard.

your earlier post suggest the 'design' will only work IF the hitch/pivot point is EXTENDED 4 ft forward...

the odd thing about this reference is that is EXACTLY what happens with BOTH brands...

the virtual pivot point is projected ~40+ inches forward (except in turns) near the drive axle for most vehicles.
____________

part of the issue is that your posting on this is a JUMBLE of terms and non-sense...

and quoting another members post that is more than a year old.

"center of gravity" moved back? this makes NO sense, what exactly does this refer too?

and while the hitch head CAN shift side2side with IMproper brake set up...

the rest of the TRAILER isn't gonna shift much and certainly will NOT fly out to the sides...

the is reference to "reducing the trailer load" again this makes NO sense.

the negative report seems to bounce around to BOTH brands, did you buy 1 of each?

many of us have LONG TERM and 10s of thousands of miles towing with these contraptions without issues...

so your report is a tad different in that regard...

cheers
2air'

[2airishuman]

looking BACK at post 49, i may have interpreted the players incorrectly ((who's on first?))...

the VIDEO and waterfilter guy may be SOMEONE ELSE with issues, but not a poster IN this thread.

it's all a bit confusing but perhaps this is just a link to something jimbo found online...?

if that's SO the 2nd line in post 52 should refer to the WATER FILTER GUY, not jimbo...

ok?

now back to your regular programing.

cheers
2air'

[Jimbo17]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

...
"center of gravity" moved back? this makes NO sense, what exactly does this refer too?...

You don't understand what is the center of gravity (see also relation to and center of mass). This is physics 101 .

If my terminology seems "jumbled" to you then perhaps this funny video will explain the basic principles physics.

YouTube - Julius Sumner Miller - Physics - Center of Gravity pt. 1

Any lengthening of the hitch moves the center of gravity further back. This has nothing to do with the pivot point which is completely separate matter (also physics 101).

In a perfect rig youy would want both the center of gravity and the pivot point ahead of the track's rear axle. If you move pivot point forward but you have moved the center of gravity back you have gained nothing or may even made the whole thing less stable.

Anyway, I'm giving up this discussion because I have better things to do then argue over some bad hitch. Feel free to shout me down and crucify me.

[crispyboy]

For those of us who were not physics majors in school could someone explain jimbo17's reference to center of gravity.
I understand center of gravity in a vertical relationship but I it seems that the poster is referring to center of gravity on more of a horizontal plain if that makes sense. Is he referring to the leverage a longer hitch exhibits on the rear of a tow vehicle in a turn?

I personally have felt the Hensley bump. As a matter of fact on our last trip out we were going down a 2 lane country road and an unmarked bend in the road came up. We were going down a steep grade, too fast (probably a 20 mph curve and I was doing 40) - Holy Crap I was thinking - told the wife to hold on, hit the brakes and the trailer swung to the side with the bump. We made it! - trailer probably on two wheels. I reviewed my brake controller and forgot that when I tow the trailer I need to put my Prodigy on boost level #2 - My fault entirely. During normal stops the truck/trailer would stop fine on the low level boost.
For the life of me I can't understand how someone wouldn't have a better towing experience with the Pro Pride or Hensley.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

For those of us who were not physics majors in school could someone explain jimbo17's reference to center of gravity.
I understand center of gravity in a vertical relationship but I it seems that the poster is referring to center of gravity on more of a horizontal plain if that makes sense. Is he referring to the leverage a longer hitch exhibits on the rear of a tow vehicle in a turn?

I think Jimbo17 is talking about the ball placement being farther back with the HAHA or the ProPride, but even if he is, in my opinion it just displayes his lack of understanding of how the hitch functions.

I have experienced a "bump", but only a couple of times, and it was on exceleration out of a turn....more like a whiplash jerk than a bump. I've not experienced it stopping. If I do not excelerate too quickly out of tight turns, I don't get the "whiplash jerk". Just my experinces.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

For those of us who were not physics majors in school could someone explain jimbo17's reference to center of gravity.

I was a physics major in school and still can't figure out exactly what he's trying to say.

The best I can come up with is that he is trying to say that point of application of the down force of the tongue weight moves aft because the ball is farther aft. While true this doesn't consider the torque applied by the weight distribution bars. The weight distribution bars "project" the tongue weight forward, in the same sense that the four-bar linkage "projects" the pivot point forward.

[Sean Woodruff]

Originally Posted by Jimbo17

Sean, please read your posts ask yourself what a potential reader may think about your company. I've simply voiced a different point of view you have attacked me personally from every angle. This is not right.

I understand you don't know me so you may not know that I don't posture and change my thinking for the sake of making a buck. I will respond to nonsense with logical explanations. If you find that to be a personal attack, well, I'm not responsible for what happens in YOUR head. Not to get off on a tangent but we are all responsible for how we read and respond, or react, to any situation.

Originally Posted by Jimbo17

As far as problems with PproPride and Hensley that I can see, it is the design itself. And BTW, adjusting the brakes can help but only if you have a trailer that has adjustable controller. On many trailers this is not easy or not even possible. If someone has one of those trailers then the whole rig is out of control when brakes are even lightly applied. And this is exactly my experience.

If you are on a wet or icy road and you get a violent break "bump" you can move several feet forward or completely lose control of the rig.

Let's take a sample of 15,000 hitches. Each towing and AVERAGE of only 1000 miles. That's 15 MILLION towing miles on this design (it is actually greater but I'm being conservative.) Can you point to ONE accident due to the bump? You don't need to research this because I can tell you there hasn't been one.

By the way, I moved my entire home the day after a 12" snow storm. Towed a fully loaded, 18' utility trailer with a Jeep Wrangler all day long and played with snapping the trailer around corners while the wheels slid to the center line of the combination (not many vehicles on the road due to the storm) I never once came close to losing control and I was doing things I should not have been doing.

Originally Posted by Jimbo17

Also the center of gravity is moved even farther back behind the truck because of the added length of the hitch and stinger connecting it to the truck, and moving the center of gravity further back makes some rigs, like mine, even less stable than a regular hitch.

Again, this isn't grounded in real world results. See example above.

Originally Posted by Jimbo17

As far as refund is concerned after spending countless hours and grief with instaling, ordering, tweaking, calling and trying make it to work it is not just the money that is gone. One's life can't be refunded back.

I understand that. You said earlier you had a bad experience with the ProPride 3P-1400. Tell me who you are and when you had this experience. I have had NO customers with what you describe here.

The sentence about your life being refunded back is the same thought I have about using hitches that do not eliminate trailer sway.

Your argument is with the bump. My argument is about trailer sway. Pick which can cause an accident with LIFE changing results. See my results based example above for the bump.

Originally Posted by Jimbo17

And then on top of that, the personal attacks when describing my experience. This is just not right.

Again, I'm not sure how anyone could think anything I have written is a personal attack. But, I'm not responsible for how you comprehend words on a screen. If you knew me, which would be the case if you were a customer of mine, you'd know that personal attacks are not my style and not my intention. I apologize if anything I have written has hurt your feelings.


-

[2airishuman]

ok, pretending to make some sense from this...

jimbo lists a 16ft bambi and 02 toyota...

these 'T150s' were rated to tow 5-7k and the receiver rated up to 700lbs or so?

so the BIG "bunch of hardware" would cut into the payload and the mass would shift loads some.

that's why we use w/d bars right?

perhaps the rig wasn't dialed in properly in that regard.

so LACK of proper w/d and an inadequate brake controller might make for 'no fun' towing.

this era 'ota also had a recall for RUSTY frame crossmembers and that could further add to poor towing.
__________

however the poster mentions using a '1400 3p' which would be an ODD selection for bambi.

the mysteries of the internet continue...

meanwhile i've got seesaws and teeter tooooters dancing in mebrain...

YouTube - Seesaw flipover

(note the budding engineer in the pink hoodie...

cheers
2air'

[moosetags]

Taking us back to the original point of this thread, I would like to comment on the issue of Hensley vs. ProPride.

We have a Hensley Arrow on Lucy that we purchased new in June of 2006. It Serial Number 8332. We have now towed almost 60,000 miles with our Hensley. We have never experienced the slightest incident of sway or oscillation regardless of any crosswinds or passing trucks. Our towing rig is less affected by crosswinds than is the Suburban by itself.

Regardless of what anyone opines, the Hensley Arrow is an amazing piece of equipment that performs exactly as advertised. The only real problem that I have with my Hensley is the way in which it has weathered. The company's motto should be, "looks like crap; works great".

That being said, I would also like to comment on my impressions of the ProPride. As far as I am concerned, the ProPride is a significant improvement on the HAHA. I understand that the PP performance is comparable to the HAHA. What I really like about the PP is the height-adjustable hitch bar. I also like the fact the the PP hitch bar pivots to make hooking up less of a drama.

I have looked into getting one of the ProPride height-adjustable hitch bars designed to work with a Hensley Arrow. As the price of one of these is $500, I am also considering selling my Hensley, and going to the ProPride.

Hensley needs to work on the hitch bar issue and the finish of their units before they get left behind.

Brian

[Gator113]

LOL... I'll bet that little one thought he managed to make that happen.

[StreamNTyme]

We HAD a Reese, also a 30 Airstream both totalled. Reese could not do the job. We now have a Hensley, which came with the newer Airstream or we would have given Propride a shot...

However, if you value yur life at all, price should not be an issue. If you will spend $$$$ on a trailer and not get the best available hitch, that is just plainly stupid as the hitch is the MOST IMPORTANT piece of equipment to keep you and your family SAFE.

Stop whining about $$$ if you can spend it on the trailer, spend it on the hitch. Enough whining... Hensley or Propride...just do it...or stay off the road...

[boondockdad]

2Air- friends don't let friends drink and teeter-totter...

kmtyme- nailed it. Don't even mention "cost of hitch" in the same sentence as owning an Airstream.

Jimbo- your video shows pretty plainly, your brake system isn't functioning properly.

The rest of your anti-Hensley verbosity is... well, let's just say I'm callin' a BS card

[Rawn77]

It's my second year towing a TT (still, I towed 20k last year); and only 4 weeks into towing my new Airstream (Lovin it!!). My dealer is committed to the HAHA (sorry Sean; think you're great. You gotta work on Andy) so that's what I got. By most of the posters' HO's, my TV (ML320 BluTech) is way too small for my '10 FC 30 (ya'all can comment on another thread) but my diesel pulls so well. The small stature of my TV is a real testament to just how important a good or bad hitch effects your towing experience. Last Sunday I was coming home from Burlington, VT in crazy 50 mph winds. I swear I could feel nothing. It was like the TT wasn't there! These hitches are just unbelievable.
I have friends with regular hitches and no matter what I tell them, I can't make them understand what a difference there is! To me these type of forward PP hitches should be a law.
Folks; if you haven't tried pulling with one; how can you comment?
One other thing, big rigs passing me; you feel NOTHING!!
To all you non-believers, the next time you're at a CG and you see one of us with our too expensive hitches; ask us to take you out for a test drive/pull. We'll be happy to oblige.

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

kmtyme- nailed it.

Unfortunately they speak from experience.

This happened on their way to our house last September.

Now they have a HaHa and peace of mind.

[Sean Woodruff]

Originally Posted by Rawn77

My dealer is committed to the HAHA (sorry Sean; think you're great. You gotta work on Andy) so that's what I got. .

No problem. Thanks.

I don't expect I'll be doing much with Andy since my retail price isn't much above what he pays for a HaHa. If I sold him hitches for what he pays for the HaHa he'd make less than half what he makes on a HaHa. That's just the cold, hard numbers. Although, I still don't understand why some dealers would buy the HaHa when the company will undercut their dealership partner's price on a HaHa direct to the dealer's customers.

[pattimarty]

A few thoughts from a newbie.

We recently purchased a 19' Bambi and after weeks of reading all the threads we could find opted for a ProPride hitch (in spite of so many comments that it was "overkill" for the size trailer and the size/type of tow vehicle we had). The day we drove our new silver baby home was the first time i'd ever towed anything bigger than a bicycle and the only the second time i'd ever been in an RV (the first was the day we made the purchase). You cannot be less experienced than that. In spite of all our wonderful plans to practice driving at the dealer, we ended up with no practice just a good bye wave. So my first moment driving with any type of trailer or RV was that first trip. We drove home in pouring rain and 25 mile per hour winds on open highway. No issues, no problems. While i don't understand any of the mechanics or technical aspects of the ProPride, it sure felt good to have it. And it certainly wasn't my driving skills or experience that helped.

The next time i had to hitch up i had a problem. One of those embarassingly silly newbie kinda problems. In utter frustration i called ProPride and amazingly Sean Woodruff himself answered the phone! He resovled the issue for me in about 1/2 minute. I cannot remember the last time i called a company with an issue and had that kind of response. Amazing.

Some of the comments i found on line (can't recall if it was on airforums) complained about it being difficult to hitch up the Propride. Other than one minor issue one time (which was do only to being a newbie knowing so little) its been a piece of cake to hitch and unhitch (and as above, you cannot find an Airtreamer with less skill and experience than me!). In fact, hitching with the ProPride is so easy i'd be happy to donate my Hitchin Rods to a worthy cause if i could find one.

So, while folks can debate the ProPride with far more technical knowledge than I have, it sure seemed to be a positive factor for us, the service and help are amazing, and we're rather happy for the investment. Yes, it was an investment and incremental cost over the hitch the dealer recommended, but so far we are thrilled we opted for it.

[moosetags]

There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to safety equipment.

Brian

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by Kevin245

Unfortunately they speak from experience.

So do I







That was using a REESE.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

So do I

..................................................


That was using a REESE.

That was especially scary to me...

I had to go look in the driveway to make sure you hadn't borrowed my truck and trailer.

When did that happen?

Regards,

Ken

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

That was using a REESE.

And, that was a 3/4 ton Dodge truck....so, do you think it was too much truck that contributed to it?