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Old 06-28-2006, 06:06 AM   #21
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1989 25' Excella
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
I have had a slight amount of sway with my Equal-i-zer on our first two outings. First was because of uneven load distribution inside the trailer...to much weight on the street side and not enough on the curb side. Redistribution of load corrected 99% of this. Still had some "sway" so I had the alignment checked on the truck. The alignment was right on, but the rear wheels were low in air. After airing up the rear tires, I have noticed an improvement in the solo handling of the truck without the trailer. This week end will be the first opportunity to try with the trailer since the proper inflation of the tires, but I think that should take care of the remaining sway. My tire store did mention that 3/4 ton trucks (at least the Fords) have more play in the sterring than lighter duty trucks so this may account for some of the perceived sway. Long and short of it, tire pressure will definately make a difference, but some may be the natural handling characteristic of your TV under load.
Minnie, not sure what you are experiencing is "sway". Sway is typically defined as severe and uncontrollable side to side motion of your trailer, sounds to me like you are experienceing "wandering" in the front end of your TV, similiar to what I experienced as described when I started this post. I suspect you need to put more of the weigt on your front end.

Max tire pressure is a given when towing; always check both TV and TT tires before heading out. Carry a good quality digital gauge in your glove box also.

I think you will find, like most of us, once you find the proper settings for your hitch, you will not have to fuss with it any longer. But things like tire pressure and bolt torque are regular maintainence items that should be checked every trip.
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:36 PM   #22
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Hello bhayden ,

basically the way you have responded to my wording is correct ,but say your
vehical is level ,then hitch the trailer,rear pulls down ,the front goes up.jack up the trailer jack (still hitched) to get the bars installed .You lower the jack
and your bars have no upward curve and the rear is low and not level .Repeat and sinch up the bars as needed .Lower back down and the vehical is now
level ,the rear looks as it was and the front is now back down level .If your
trailer ,when unhitched and level ,and your tv also level unhitched ,and the tongue and hitch ball are at the correct height each the same height.Why
then when hitched up and the bars tensioned properly could the frame
on the tv be lower in the front more than the rear ?The idea is to have the frames loaded equally as is possible .I have tensioned the bars on my travelall
and all is level and the front end is not lower than it was unhitched ,but if maybe the trailer coupler is higher than the tow vehical hitch ball height and then the bars are tensioned ,that could do it .Any thing is possible if things are not setup quite right .I have seen many tv trailer setups where the tv
and trailer hitch setups are all over the map on the setup ,totally wrong.
The tv and trailer hitch ball and coupler height must first be correct ,when
each are sitting level ,first thing to make sure or any WD install cannot
be right ,the concern needs to be that the rear of the tv comes back up to level as the bars are tensioned ,this 1" lower/higher business is a baseline
really to get you close ,and some have found out that level works the best.

Scott
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:44 PM   #23
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I forgot to mention about the considerably more sag in the rear makes it handle better idea .Bars being too rigid high# than needed ,or light tongue
weight can be a factor as reese is saying that they don't want the rear too
"light" so sag it a little ,somthing is not right if you need to drag the rear
a little instead of a level setup ,unless the bars are ! a too high a # say
1000# than 550# .People always think the heaviest bars are the best .
Not true ,the correct rated bars are the best.

Scott
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Old 06-29-2006, 07:05 AM   #24
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As you discovered, changing the head angle of the Equal-i-zer brand hitch from 4-6 degrees to zero degrees is not a "minor adjustment". Essentially this removes all, or nearly all, tension from the bars... effectivly disabling the weight distribution and friction anti-sway elements of the hitch.

The head angle and/or L-brackets may need some adjustment to achieve the proper weight distribution, which is discussed in steps 1 and 12 of the instructions.

To resolve your shank height issue, you can either you can have a machine shop cut off the excess length or purchase another shank of proper length. Note that the shank is tough metal (I had one cut off for my previous tow vehicle), so purchasing a new shank is the easiest route.
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Old 06-29-2006, 07:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac
As you discovered, changing the head angle of the Equal-i-zer brand hitch from 4-6 degrees to zero degrees is not a "minor adjustment". Essentially this removes all, or nearly all, tension from the bars... effectivly disabling the weight distribution and friction anti-sway elements of the hitch.

The head angle and/or L-brackets may need some adjustment to achieve the proper weight distribution, which is discussed in steps 1 and 12 of the instructions.
dmac-that is absolutely right. Pretty sacry ride for about 1/2 mile, untill I figured it out...
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:22 PM   #26
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no more sway, now

I use the Eqal-I-zer W/D hitch an now love it. I didn't before playing with it and felt like it added very little to provide sway reduction. It always provided a noticable W/D effect with 1200# bars (although with my old-style Dodge diesel and war surplus springs, it didn't need help with load carrying), in fact makes the truck drive like a late model truck. By playing with I mean that I had to modify how it is connected, specifically the bars and how they interact with the brackets (on the tongue). I noticed that whenever I would go about hooking things up, the L-brackets would always rock back and forth within the pockets they are clamped in. Even torquing the square bolt to the manuf specs, it still rocked. Supposedly, the manuf states that the friction area between the bars and brackets serves as a "secondary sway control system". I guess I couldn't figure out how this much slop in the bracket provided any amount of sway control???
Having the correct height adjustment set up, I noticed that the bottom hole in the height adjustment L-bracket lined up pretty close to the bolt used to clamp the bracket to the tongue. If I reversed the bottom bolt (from the manuf install) and put a jambnut (a slimmer nut) to tighten the clamp mechanism to the tongue, there was enough thread left to go through the L-bracket and firmly clamp the L-bracket to the tongue. Then I torqued the square bolt to spec. Not a lick of movement anywhere. Considering that while driving, the amount of translation imparted to the load bars (fore/aft) from the angular movement of the hitch versus TV was very small based on small sway movements (I calculated this all out on paper some months ago after gathering some on-road data), any amount of slop would eliminate the benefit of this "secondary sway control system". After running with this setup now for about 4000 miles, the sway is very much held in check and I can feel a difference when recovering from a passing semi. While there is, and always will be, an initial sway because of the massive amount of the semi's bow wave, the recovery is nearly instantaneous versus before where it seemed to dampen over a period of a few (sometimes scary) seconds.
I mentioned this to the manuf and they never got back to me...
I'm a mechanical engineer by trade so things like this entrigue me, hence the "playing with" mentality. Anybody else found those L-brackets oddly loose?
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B25guy
After running with this setup now for about 4000 miles, the sway is very much held in check and I can feel a difference when recovering from a passing semi. While there is, and always will be, an initial sway because of the massive amount of the semi's bow wave, the recovery is nearly instantaneous versus before where it seemed to dampen over a period of a few (sometimes scary) seconds.
Anybody else found those L-brackets oddly loose?
Two things from our experience. We too have a 25-foot Safari and an Equal-i-zer. Our brackets are loose as you call it, but that is the way it was set up by our dealer and doesn't seem to cause any adverse effect. As to sway caused by semis/buses/etc., we experience absolutely, absolutely zero, zero. I know that people are disbelieving of this statement, but I swear that it is true.

So, perhaps you might want to do a little more tweaking to see if you too can reduce the giant sucking to zero. One thing that I notice from your account that differs from our setup is that your bars are rated at 1,200 pounds while ours are 1,000 pounds. Perhaps ours are more supple at the margin.

Oh, there's another difference in wheelbase that might have some effect although this is another case where the learned opinion on the Forum suggests that my SUV is deficient in this regard.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:37 PM   #28
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Mike/Rosemary,

Your TV has a much shorter distance between rear wheels and hitch versus my LWB, 4x4 on aging leaf spring bushings. This shorter distance has a very positive inflluence in sway as has been noted throughout the Forum. It doesn't surprise me that you don't experience sway and I believe it is because of your softer bars and shorter hitch/axle distance. I'm certain my remaining sway, albeit very minor, is due to my TV: aging bushings, leaf spring front axle (with well known inherent steering play) and axle to spring height due to factory installed blocks. My primary concern was to maximize the sway control, both primary and secondary, provided in the Equal-I-zer. I still don't think anybody is getting any/much benefit from these loose brackets while the manuf claims is "...secondary control". No doubt most if not all are experiencing adequate primary sway control from the friction in the hitch head (both ball and bar sockets).
I don't know that I'd necessarily agree that your TV is not adequate for a 25' Safari but my personal preference is definitely 3/4 ton. I feel very much in control and spent considerable time on mountainous roads between Utah and Montana. I've also towed on solid snow/ice in Virginia last winter with little to no discomfort (that's me at a rest area in VA in my avatar...must have had 500lbs of ice on the coach when I stopped there).
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Old 07-19-2006, 03:38 PM   #29
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B25guy - I also have noticed the looseness in the L brackets of the Equal-i-zer, but hadn't mentally connected it with a sway dampening degradation like you have mentioned. I think your idea has merit - could you post a photo of your solution?
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:59 PM   #30
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Equal-i-zer Hitch

Hi, In answer to some of you and from my experiences with useing the Equal-i-zer Hitch. First, I bought an angle guage to set up my hitch angle. Since the receiver has play in it, I set mine at ten degrees down. Under load, it pulls its self up to six degrees down. Second, my set up requires the ball bracket to point downward makeing it drag. [too close to the ground] I cut mine off at the bottom of the gusset. Or cut to remove one adjusting hole. Third, as for the "L" brackets coming loose, only the left one came loose on mine and it was caused by the angle of the "L" bracket when you tighten it with the set bolt. Notice when you tighten the right "L" bracket the set bolt pushes the bracket to the rear of your trailer; therefore any movement of the spring bars will push the "L" bracket and set bolt in the tighten direction. On the left side when you tighten the "L" bracket set bolt, it pushes the "L" bracket to the front of the trailer. Therefore, the spring bar pushes against the "L" bracket in the direction to loosen the set bolt. My cure was to hold the left "L" bracket in the rearward direction, use red locktite, and super torque the set bolts. No more loose "L" brackets.
Theoretically, Your tow vehicle is supposed to be either level or preferably equally down in both front and rear. Mine won't go down in the rear because I have self leveling rear air suspension. As for the statement, larger trucks haveing more play in the steering; My answer to that is, Now days, smaller vehicles use rack and pinion steering versus larger trucks use recirculating ball gear boxes. Gear boxes are looser by design and have more play in the control valve / worm gear.

Bob
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Old 07-20-2006, 06:50 AM   #31
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Dan

Thinking I had opened a can of worms regarding the Equal-I-zer, I snapped a couple of pictures last night...I'll post them ASAP.
BTW, when I mentioned this issue with the manuf in late '04, they said it was normal and the way they designed it??

Marc
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Old 07-20-2006, 07:04 AM   #32
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I suspect that most sway is very small, in terms of degrees of rotation. This suggests that any slop in the system will render anti-sway ineffective. I'm thinking that even the play in the hitch receiver/drawbar interface may be a problem!

I have owned my Equal-i-zer for 3-1/2 years, and I have no idea if it actually does anything to reduce sway. I have not had sway problems - just a wiggle when semi's pass by. But that does not mean that the hitch is working, it may only mean that the trailer is towing well due to proper loading, etc. Frankly, I wonder if the Equal-i-zer does much to reduce sway... it's design and construction are very crude. Tension on the bars makes their pivot points bind, causing friction (and rapid wear). The small amount of movement at those points during a sway event, combined with the large mass and inertia of the trailer, makes me wonder if the setup does anything useful.
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Old 07-20-2006, 07:21 AM   #33
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Dan,

My thoughts exactly. When I actually positioned the entire rig in realistic angles, what I measured was extremely small angles (it certainly feels like much more when driving) and yes, if memory serves, it took nearly 10deg of offset to produce 5/8" of linear motion in the bars...this is what the bottom of my L-bracked's slop measured. Conclusion at that time was that I wasn't getting "secondary sway" benefit with under 10deg of sway???
I have almost come to the conclusion that because I'm towing with a nearly 7000lb truck and the trailer tows sooooo much better than SOB's, the hitch is cosmetic. Like I said before, I do get a couple of hundred pounds of weight on my front axle due to the W/D properties, which makes a huge difference in my kidney's comfort (people who have owned this kind of truck know what I'm talking about). But I had always been suspect of the anti-sway properties it touted, but only because of the L-bracket slop. Now in fariness, for smaller TV's, it might make all the difference in the world, I don't have that experience to compare. Anybody who's moved from a smallish to largish or vice versa TV can opine?
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Old 07-20-2006, 09:25 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac
Frankly, I wonder if the Equal-i-zer does much to reduce sway... it's design and construction are very crude. Tension on the bars makes their pivot points bind, causing friction (and rapid wear). The small amount of movement at those points during a sway event, combined with the large mass and inertia of the trailer, makes me wonder if the setup does anything useful.
Simple way to answer your question. Next time you go out on a trip, don't install the spring bars. You will know if it does anything or not. I'm not saying it does, just that you can answer the question easily enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B25guy
I have almost come to the conclusion that because I'm towing with a nearly 7000lb truck and the trailer tows sooooo much better than SOB's, the hitch is cosmetic.
Your setup should be easy to confirm whether there are sway control or not as well. Your truck should be adequate to control sway if anybody's is. Let us know what your results are.

I would like to know if the issues I have might be with the hitch or with the trailer. My Airstream is currently at Jackson Center having some body work done as a result of being introduced to a now deceased deer at 50 mph a few weeks ago and I have asked that they check the alignment while it is there being repaired. Since my problems seem to be speed specific, I think it might be alignment not hitch related. I am open to any opinions or suggestions on this from fellow forum members.
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Old 07-20-2006, 09:36 AM   #35
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Minnie - If I were to test by not installing the spring bars I would be disabling two items: 1) weight distribution and 2) friction sway control. If I noticed a towing difference I would not know which function made the difference.

I would like to try B25's idea to see if the added friction from tighted L-brackets provides a noticable improvement, ie; when trucks pass.
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Old 07-20-2006, 09:54 AM   #36
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Hey guys.

I would think the way to test this would be to use just a plain ball mount adjusted to the right height.

I wouldn't just use the EQ hitch/ball thing because I think it sticks out further than just a ball mount.

I read somewhere that it's better to have rear axle of TV closer to trailer axle. (Is this correct????) That EQ set up does stick out a bit, and I have the bruises on my legs to prove that.

It would be interesting to test that theory.

Jonathan
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Old 07-20-2006, 10:00 AM   #37
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Like I said, "almost come to the conclusion", the jury's still out.
For completeness, when I did the very first pull of the A/S from the dealer, like some, I just went on a little 40mi jaunt up Parley canyon in Utah and thoroughly enjoyed the towing experience. I remember thinking that these A/S's do tow like they say! When I got home and after going over the whole trailer with amazement on my recent purchase I noticed that there was very little if any weight on the bars...in fact when I pulled the pin and removed the keeper, the bars just swung away with little effort. After reading the manual and looking over what the dealer had set up, I quickley realized they hadn't set up anything at all. I set up the recommended number of washers giving me a good tilt down and adjusted the L-brackets to achieve noticable pre-load on the bars. Since that time, I noticed much improved ride in the truck (specifically front axle) but no real change in sway. I've towed lots of trailers over the years so I wasn't just ignoring obvious traits or imagining a dream-like ride. All this said, I like the W/D, put up with a little annoying sway for the first year and now feel like the hitch truly joins the two together-Firmly with my L-brackets "welded". Simple physics leads me to believe that size/mass of TV will make a positive influence with sway or whatever we choose to call it. From an aerodynamics (like with airplanes) standpoint (and we're not too far off with the A/S shape), speed will have other really heady influences but save that for a few beers at the next campground.
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Old 07-20-2006, 10:43 AM   #38
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Jonathan,

I think you mean to say having the TV axle close to the hitch point. You can imagine the side-to-side leverage advantange of having a really short distance when the trailer wants to go one direction and the TV's rear wheels want to go another. With the ultimate towing setup (sway issues only) being the 5th wheel, the closer you get to that effetively zero distance is best. I fully recognize that my LWB with gobs of overhang back there and adding the additional length of the Equal-I-zer, will allow some instability. By watching my speed and steering input, I feel as if it is well within my limits as well as the TV...I'm still ~13k lbs of rolling load. Common sense tells me that the various points of friction; ball, bar sockets and now solid L-brackets contribute some degree of control...just not as much as some people may believe. Looks like another engineering/whiteboard lunch today! Friction, what was that about Mu?
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Old 07-20-2006, 11:01 AM   #39
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marc.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Jonathan
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Old 07-20-2006, 01:53 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac
Minnie - If I were to test by not installing the spring bars I would be disabling two items: 1) weight distribution and 2) friction sway control. If I noticed a towing difference I would not know which function made the difference.

I would like to try B25's idea to see if the added friction from tighted L-brackets provides a noticable improvement, ie; when trucks pass.
I agree that you would elliminate the W/D aspect of the hitch and that would have a tremendous affect on handling, but that would be stering mostly since you would be reducing the contact force of the front tires on the road.

I have tried many solutions to the sway I have encountered with my trailer. The two that have had the most affect were equal and maximum tire pressure in the rear tires, and the other was torquing the socket lugs. I called Equal-i-zer and they recommended 45-60 ft.-lbs. I torqued them to 60 and just a little more. I put 76 lbs of tire pressure in each of the rear tires and 58 in the front. I had virtually no sway. Was it the tire pressure or the torque on the lugs? I'm not sure. I think it was some of both. I had just had the alignment in my truck checked and the tire shop said it was spot on. So I think it is comming from the trailer side of receiver.

My truck shifts into its final gear at about 65 mph. It is at that speed that I begin to experience sway. It continues until I reach about 75 mph. I know that is not the "safest" speed to tow at, but I feel there is less loss of control at that speed so I have been towing at that speed on the interstate. It also allows me to not be resigned to the right lane which is always beat pretty rough by the semis. Therefore, the ride is smoother and again I feel more in control than if I were getting beat to death by rough asphalt/concrete. My coach is an '06 so I feel ok for now at that speed with the tires. I know if I continue with that speed of towing I will replace the tires after three years instead of after 4-5 as most people recommend. When I travel on two lane roads, I keep the speed down to around 55. BTW, my RPMs are the same at 75 as they are at 55 because of the shift points in the tow/haul mode.

When I suggested not installing the spring bars, I suggested this mainly thinking in terms of the heavy duty 3/4 ton or higher tow vehicle. If yours is a 1/2 ton, it certainly wouldn't be an option. I'm not sure if my F-250 would set down too much in the rear without the weight distribution to handle well enough to tell if there was any sway or not. Just a suggestion though. All I know is that when I torqued the lug nuts tighter, the swaying seemed to reduce. The factory rep told me that when new, they would wear very quickly at first and that would reduce their friction in the sockets and reduce their sway control.

If you haven't torqued your lug nuts since the hitch was installed, or if you haven't this season, this may be part of your experience with slight sway. Mine went away for a 900+ mile trip, but returned on the next trip. Go figure?
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