Equal-I-zer losing WD contribution over time?

[Ray Eklund]

I had a 25 foot International and pulled it with a 2012 Tundra.

Any more than 5 washers and moving the L's on the trailer create so much tension... no wonder you may have bent your bars. I had 1,000# bars. To swing the bars over you needed to lift the trailer higher... which is the first sign this was not going to work. This may be the 'bending' issue of the bars.

My leaf springs were FLAT due to the borderline suspension towing a 25 foot. Towing a 23 foot was fine with a 5.7L Tundra. Towing the 23 foot with the smaller 4.7L Tundra was borderline. There is a 'sweet spot', but you have to find it. Since I sold our trailer, I would have liked to photograph the hardware attached as a better visual, but it is long gone.

People take what they think is a heavy duty work truck, less so without 4x4 in my opinion, load the trailer and the pickup bed to the brim and wonder why they have issues. The dealer used ONE washer and the ride... was up and down in the front end, but never any sway.

At least with 14" Marathon C Rated tires... there was agreement the tires were poor.

This is another example of having too little information, too little direct knowledge of loads being hauled and how competent the driver may be. I never had sway. I never had the trailer and tow vehicle pivot at the ball when going over dips.

I just do not get it. It cannot be the hardware being used... It is misusing the hardware and tow vehicle.

What bars from Equalizer are you using? Take your trailer loaded and weigh it. Your Tundra will be dragging. The Tundra is a fine vehicle. Never had a problem or needed warranty work. But for towing anything over 23 feet... you had better know what your are doing.

I went to a F350 as it cost me no more than a F250 at the dealership, although a F250 would also been fine... with not one problem getting it to tow level and firm. No sway at any speed, cross wind, road waving...

I have watched trailers being pulled down the highways. You would be amazed at the poor setups moving every day.

It may not be the Equalizer. It could be whomever set it up. If set up at the Airstream Dealer in Denver... you might want someone else to check it out. I learned by trial and error. Maybe I had the one of two hitches that worked and the rest are faulty????

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Hi, I'm one of the people whose hitch head recently cracked.

The replacement hitch head equalizer sent out under warranty .

Kscherzi,

For grins could you check one more area for the new hitch head.

Look for a gap between the hitch head and shank. Head completely compressed against shank or a gap between head and shank. This is where the two big bolts clamp the head to shank.

Visual insp and consider slipping a business card or dollar bill in between head and shank or feeler gage if in your tool box.

Gary

[out of sight]

Small tow vehicles are a never ending problem. First, you realize that the tongue weight of the trailer causes the rear axle to overload beyond its capacity. Then the front end becomes underloaded and the steering is no longer safe, and your headlights are out of alignment. You are told you can fix this if you buy a weight distribution hitch, but when you install it you are taking weight off the rear wheels that is needed there to keep your trailer from pushing your tow vehicle around. Now you need to install sway devices in addition to the weight distribution devices. Then you take your rig out and find out it is porpoising down the road because of the weight distribution springs, possibly causing your hitch shank to bottom out and destroy the hitch and the attachment to the vehicle. Also, the hitch transfers load back to the flimsy trailer axles and tires where you don't really want it. And god forbid your trailer brakes stop working as they often do. Your undersized vehicle won't be able to stop you.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Yes there is, its called profit. And more power to them that is what it is all about being in business.
We bought our first As an 2012 28' International in 2012.
Shortly thereafter I got sucked into the never ending Hitch Drama in the AS Life and this site. Having spent my entire life in construction pulling all sorts of equipment with every imaginable trailer I never heard of anti sway hitches. In my world anti sway prevention was the driver. Had someone told us to spend 3 gs on a hitch we would have laughed at them.
After reading an article by CANAM promoting towing with a minivan I sent of an inquiry about what kind of modification do they perform to increase Payload to make a minivan functional in real life towing and camping.
As of today I haven't received a response.
I have stated in previous posts anyone believing and trusting in a hitch to save their bacon while towing with a marginal TV is in for a rude awakening when the proverbial sht hits the fan.

Originally Posted by out of sight

I'll second that. A weight distribution hitch is used mainly as a crutch to enable you to tow a trailer with a tow vehicle that is too small to tow it. The safest and best solution is to get a proper sized tow vehicle.

Wow is all I can say. There's no telling how people will perceive the world through their own colored glasses.

Nevermind the threads on this very forum where people with big trucks...let me clarify - 3/4 ton brand new HD trucks - the newest biggest and baddest, are reaching for exotic PPP hitches AND utilizing 100% FALR in order to achieve stability. This is after multiple tries and failures with any number of standard hitches.

Perhaps there's more than meets the eye in what makes a stable vehicle. Because big bad HD trucks surely isn't it, when one has the rest of the recipe wrong.

At least between us, we may agree that PPP is sometimes used as a crutch. Perhaps to compensate for inadequacies elsewhere. Or perhaps sometimes people just want what they perceive as the best. Like a big bad truck?

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by pteck

Wow is all I can say. There's no telling how people will perceive the world through their own colored glasses.

Nevermind the threads on this very forum where people with big trucks...let me clarify - 3/4 ton brand new HD trucks - the newest biggest and baddest, are reaching for exotic PPP hitches AND utilizing 100% FALR in order to achieve stability. This is after multiple tries and failures with any number of standard hitches.

Perhaps there's more than meets the eye in what makes a stable vehicle. Because big bad HD trucks surely isn't it, when one has the rest of the recipe wrong.

At least between us, we may agree that PPP is sometimes used as a crutch. Perhaps to compensate for inadequacies elsewhere. Or perhaps sometimes people just want what they perceive as the best. Like a big bad truck?

I have a big good truck. Actually its not that big. Some of the trailers on the road these days should really be pulled with Freightliners, not pickups.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, the factory Equal-i-zer brand hitch washers are quite thick. I found a thin washer in my cans of nuts, bolts, and washers. You can buy a thin washer at any hardware store.

Just a note that the washers are used in a high stress/pressure manner. There have been reports of individuals using basic hardware store washers, only to find the washers "flattened" (flat washers ) after a period. Hardened washers work best. Or ones that have sufficient surface area to distribute and support the high loads its subject to.

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Any more than 5 washers and moving the L's on the trailer create so much tension... no wonder you may have bent your bars.

Not true. Equalizer manual allows for 4-8 washers.

It depends where the L-brackets are set. It also greatly depends on the attitude (levelness) of the tow vehicle. And to a lesser extent the trailer attitude.

In your case, your TV was squatting so much that its own attitude/posture was lending additional down angle.

My vehicle has full hydraulic leveling, so it is always neutral in posture irrespective of load. I use 7 washers in my setup to achieve ~50% FALR.

[Ray Eklund]

pteck that is good information.

My dealer in Denver had ONE 'hardened steel' washer when they set me up, leaving the lot. The 'experts', I assume. Take one washer into the hardware store and they know exactly what they are for! My... 'dealer'... did not even include any additional washers that may have come with my Equalizer.

The washer that is hardened is a different color.

That is fair game if someone needs more washers. That sure is getting close to the end of the pin that holds them all. The Dealer I had, did not tighten the threaded screw to keep the head from moving further from the washer pin.

I had a friend towing a 25 foot Arctic Fox towed by his 2000 Tundra. In Wyoming his front end would almost leave the pavement and his steering was minimal over these asphalt dips in the State Highway. He purchased a 5.7L Tundra 4x4 in 2010. Solved his problem.

I tried extra washers, over the five. Looking for trouble there, and I must have given them to the new owner.

With the F350 1 ton 4x4 the shank was 2 1/2 inches and needed to replace the 2" shank used in the Tundra. It still needed a top shim as it fit sloppy. That is a thread somewhere on the Forum.

We still drive one of our two 2008 Land Cruisers 5.7L. His and Hers, you know. Never would consider towing anything with them. They are tanks on wheels and towing a trailer would put a pinch on the 5.7L and you would need to jack up the back suspension. I am not sure if it is good for the all wheel drive, but it sure was great in the snow.

A new Land Cruiser/LX570 costs more than a 3/4 ton 4x4. We test drove the latest one on the lot. The big difference with our 2008 was that if you drifted from the lane a sensor went off. Everything else was as close to 2008 I could imagined for more money. May had been a 2016... sticker price was... well, out of this world. Even the tail lights looked the same.

I now love my F350 diesel. It actually has BRAKES. Engine and disc. The second Cruiser was a no go at that point. The 2012 Tundra 5.7L 4x4... a no go. Great vehicles, Cruisers hold eight passengers, but towing anything over 25 feet, I repeat myself... not me.

The Equalizer Hitch.... worked fine on ALL my vehicles and trailers. Is there something better? Does it really matter? I was satisfied and why try to convince me otherwise?

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, in response to a few comments:

(1.) I only install my spring bars when hitching up my trailer to my tow vehicle and only remove my spring bars when un-hitching my trailer. I have gone up, down, and made very sharp turns while backing up; In 14 years, I have never needed to remove my spring bars for any reason while moving my trailer.

(2.) To smash a steel washer on an Equal-I-zer brand hitch, it would have to be hammered. If the hitch head to shank bolts are loose and the slack bolt is not snugged, you could get some hammering. Otherwise it would take about ten million pounds of direct pressure to smash a steel washer.

(3.) Most common mistake, in my opinion, in setting up the "L" brackets is locating them too close to the ball of the coupler. I have mine set up at the maximum distance allowed by Equal-I-zer. This gives the spring bars more leverage and allows for more flexibility.

(4.) I ordered the Bracket Jackets for my hitch. I changed all four of the main bolts, nuts, and washers to grade eight. Other than those and a different shank, I have, to this day, all original parts on my hitch including the spring clips / hair pin clips. Nothing has worn out or broken yet.

[GOUSC]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, in response to a few comments:

(1.) I only install my spring bars when hitching up my trailer to my tow vehicle and only remove my spring bars when un-hitching my trailer. I have gone up, down, and made very sharp turns while backing up; In 14 years, I have never needed to remove my spring bars for any reason while moving my trailer.

(2.) To smash a steel washer on an Equal-I-zer brand hitch, it would have to be hammered. If the hitch head to shank bolts are loose and the slack bolt is not snugged, you could get some hammering. Otherwise it would take about ten million pounds of direct pressure to smash a steel washer.

(3.) Most common mistake, in my opinion, in setting up the "L" brackets is locating them too close to the ball of the coupler. I have mine set up at the maximum distance allowed by Equal-I-zer. This gives the spring bars more leverage and allows for more flexibility.

(4.) I ordered the Bracket Jackets for my hitch. I changed all four of the main bolts, nuts, and washers to grade eight. Other than those and a different shank, I have, to this day, all original parts on my hitch including the spring clips / hair pin clips. Nothing has worn out or broken yet.

I agree with all the above, (except that I have no knowledge in the area of #2), and have the same results after 15,000 miles of towing with the Equalizer on our first Airstream. The other comments I would make are;

1. Our dealer installed the Equalizer on purchase. A few months down the road after reading on this forum I measured the distance of the L brackets from the center of the hitch. They were in the 27" range. I moved them as far back as I could which was 30.5". I couldn't go to 32" due to the propane line connection bracket on the frame.
2. My dealer installed 4 washers and did not give me the extra ones or the installation manual. I would encourage everyone to look at the installation manual if someone else installed their hitch and verify L bracket distance / lug nut torques / etc. I purchased extra hardened washers and have 5 currently installed.
3. I attended a presentation by Andy, of CanAM, at Alumapalooza regarding towing. He made a good argument for removing the WD bars if you have a steep gully / transition from flat to incline since the Equalizer bars don't have the flex that other systems to as it puts a lot of stress on the entire hitch / frame system.
4. I also agree with Ptek that Andy seems to know his stuff and has the data to back up his suggestions. I am happy with my Equalizer and 3/4 ton truck and would not change. However, I realize there are other options out there that can safely tow our Airstreams and each person needs to do their research and make their decision for their own anticipated use.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I'll second that. A weight distribution hitch is used mainly as a crutch to enable you to tow a trailer with a tow vehicle that is too small to tow it. The safest and best solution is to get a proper sized tow vehicle.

Hi

I agree that it is indeed unfortunate that I only have a fully optioned out (tow wise) F-250 to pull my AS with. I guess it's only because it's so grossly undersized for the application that the rig goes down the road much better with the WD engaged .....

Next time I'll have to go with the F-450. What I have already *is* a F350 except for the badge.

Bob

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

I agree that it is indeed unfortunate that I only have a fully optioned out (tow wise) F-250 to pull my AS with. I guess it's only because it's so grossly undersized for the application that the rig goes down the road much better with the WD engaged .....

Next time I'll have to go with the F-450. What I have already *is* a F350 except for the badge.

Bob

I have a Ram 2500 and it doesn't need a w/d hitch. I'd be surprised if your F-250 needs one. Are you sure about that?

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, the factory Equal-i-zer brand hitch washers are quite thick. I found a thin washer in my cans of nuts, bolts, and washers. You can buy a thin washer at any hardware store.

Equalizer specifies that the washers be hardened steel.
I find those easily at my local Lowe's, Grade 8.
Most stamped washers aren't flat, and so get pounded thinner in the hitch. Even the hardened washers give a bit.
You can look down and see if the rivet is touching the shank. If not, tighten the small adjustment bolt. (Which moves the head more vertical.)

If you move the "L" brackets back, make sure in a tight turn the bar doesn't slide off. They move. Forgive me if this is obvious.

[Bill M.]

I do not know if my older Dodge 2500 “needs” my WD hitch or not. And I probably will never find out. It sure tows good with the WD hitch. Having hitched it a thousand times or so hitching goes pretty fast and easily now. I do know that I can stop with the brakes disconnected. It happened more times than it should have before I figured out the problems.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by pteck

Is it as meaningless as you say?

There must not be a good reason for professionals like Andy from CanAmRV to religiously perform this modification. And those who get setup by Andy with basic hitches to rave about his ability to make rigs perform.

Yes it is, they are in business to make a profit and anyone believing otherwise is being naive.
They make changes to marginal vehicles that enable them to carry the additional weight that they weren't designed for.
As it has been repeated many times on can pull a 30' AS with a Fiat 500. I always smile at people noting " It pulls Like a dream" . Stopping it and keeping it upright during a highways speed crash avoidance, is a different matter altogether.

[GammaDog]

Hey! It's the OP here.

Sorry to interrupt the sarcasm, truck shaming, technical competence smearing, and random opinionated bloviating to get back to the original technical questions, but I feel compelled since I promised I would share more info out of respect for the people who offered answers to the challenge that started this thread.

I received a response from Equal-I-zer about the two questions I posed to them. 1. How tight is too tight to snug the vertical bolts through the swing arm receivers to take up slop that develops over time from wear and 2. Can the swing arms on an Equal-I-zer be installed "upside down". Here's their response:

"Yes, the torque value on those vertical bolts is 60-90 ft lbs. Anywhere in that range will be great. You can also invert those bars as well. That will be perfectly fine!"

I'll check my bolt torque before we hit the road tomorrow. I'd be amazed if I topped 90 lb ft to take out the slop in mine. I had been torquing them before each trip, but not to 90. The published spec is 60. I now see that 60 is the minimum.

For those of you who have 12K or 14K models, the offset notches on the spring arms limit the orientation options. I'm not sure if the "upside down" answer applies to you. I'd contact tech support to confirm. They didn't ask me what model hitch I had, so I'm thinking they would say yes to inverting the bars on those larger hitches, too.

Ok... talk amongst yourselves! I'm going back to my trip!

Thanks to all who helped on this one!

[pteck]

Thank you for the report back GammaDog. Always good to hear it from the horses mouth.

I aim for ~65 ft-lbs torque. In my setup, with the swing arm receiver well greased, it can be tight to swing into place. Which is partially the point as each pivot is part of the anti-sway function. I haven't tried 90 ft-lbs but I'd imagine it could be hard to manually swing the bars in place at that point and require manipulating it from the far end of the bar to have sufficient leverage.

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Yes it is, they are in business to make a profit and anyone believing otherwise is being naive.
They make changes to marginal vehicles that enable them to carry the additional weight that they weren't designed for.
As it has been repeated many times on can pull a 30' AS with a Fiat 500. I always smile at people noting " It pulls Like a dream" . Stopping it and keeping it upright during a highways speed crash avoidance, is a different matter altogether.

And I can see you drank the cool aid the big truck "for profit businesses" have served you. Enjoy the (firm) ride.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by pteck

Thank you for the report back GammaDog. Always good to hear it from the horses mouth.

I aim for ~65 ft-lbs torque. In my setup, with the swing arm receiver well greased, it can be tight to swing into place. Which is partially the point as each pivot is part of the anti-sway function. I haven't tried 90 ft-lbs but I'd imagine it could be hard to manually swing the bars in place at that point and require manipulating it from the far end of the bar to have sufficient leverage.




And I can see you drank the cool aid the big truck "for profit businesses" have served you. Enjoy the (firm) ride.

Actually I don't ever drink cool aid, I don't like it.
However the experience I gained with all kinds of towing and trucking of very heavy equipment running my infrastructure construction business over 40 years thought me few things. One of them was not employ a boy to do a mans job.

[JamuJoe]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Wow!
That's a new one I haven't heard.
I always put the bars in the same way because I have the logos outside and right side up. But I don't see any reason they can't be flipped over. Springs are springs.
I store my bars in tubes and I haven't noticed any rocking or bend.
I don't think you should try 8 washers. As I recall, Equalizer mentions 6 or 7 as the max.
I'd make sure the sockets are not worn around the bolt holes. I might try flipping the sockets over also.
I'd call tech support at Equalizer, they're on Eastern time.

My logos disappeared years ago, and I make a practice of rotating the bars regularly. Over 70,000 towing miles and three tow vehicles, with no diminished performance of the Equalizer.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by GammaDog

Hey! It's the OP here.

Sorry to interrupt the sarcasm, truck shaming, technical competence smearing, and random opinionated bloviating to get back to the original technical questions, but I feel compelled since I promised I would share more info out of respect for the people who offered answers to the challenge that started this thread.

I received a response from Equal-I-zer about the two questions I posed to them.
"Yes, the torque value on those vertical bolts is 60-90 ft lbs. Anywhere in that range will be great. You can also invert those bars as well. That will be perfectly fine!"

Yes, threads do seen to take on a life of their own. Especially threads about hitches, tow vehicles, and generators.

I too called Equalizer when I first bought the hitch, and asked about the torque of the vertical bolts. The guy I spoke to said "We torque them to 100 ft/lb here at the factory."
Well, at 100Ft/Lbs I couldn't kick the bars sideways and it made hitching a painful experience. So I let common sense take over, relaxed them to where they were firm but I could move them with some force. I have no sway, and towing is a pleasure. (The 26 has a heavy tongue so that may be a stability factor).
All the adjustability makes it a work in progress, but it's good to understand why one may add a washer and another may move a hole in the shank.
As far as the number of washers, the rivet has a finite length, and you can't add too many or it falls out.
From the manual:

Once the maximum (8) or minimum (4) number of spacer washers has been reached, further adjustments can be made by raising or lowering the L‑brackets. Minor adjustments later for changes in loading can usually be done by moving only the L-brackets.

[majorairhead]

2 or 3 times a year I take those sockets out, clean them inside and out, clean the socket bolts, clean the hitch, clean the bars, clean the ball, clean the ball receiver, of all grease and gunk, then re-grease, reassemble, and re-torque.