Equal-i-zer Hitch Thread.

[Al and Missy]

I picked up my trailer today for an imminent trip and decided to weigh it since I have not validated the setup on the new TV. The numbers were surprising, probably because I don't understand something.

As a preface, I checked the trailer level at the storage facility where they have a nice flat level space. It looked a little tongue high to me so that is the first thing I need to correct.

TV - 2013 Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 CTD with 3.42
TT - 2001 Safari 25

The curious thing about the weights is that very little weight was transferred to the trailer. 200# came off of the rear axle. 180# of it went to the front. That amount put me right at 50% restoration of the weight that lifted off when I hooked up without WD. Only 20# went to the trailer. Is that a function of the stiff suspension of the 3/4T truck? It may be a good thing, because I'm over the TT GVWR, but I was too lazy to put a lot of stuff that normally goes in the TV and was stored in the TT into the TV before going to get weighed, and I think the Gray and Black tanks are close to full with the softener/detergent cleaning solution. I think I'll probably be under the limit when I empty tanks and put the TV stuff in the TV.

Here are the numbers:



The facility I used has only a single long scale. I weighed the TV front, whole TV, and the TT. The TV Rear is calculated. I have checked this scale against a CAT scale and it is very close. The few check numbers I ran, like the GCVWR for both hitched cases, agree to within less than 1%.

Al - Confused Again......

[Al and Missy]

The line in my table called on/off average is mis-named. It should be unhitched/no WD. For the front axle it defines the weight at which half of the weight is restored to the axle.

Al

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

The curious thing about the weights is that very little weight was transferred to the trailer. 200# came off of the rear axle. 180# of it went to the front. That amount put me right at 50% restoration of the weight that lifted off when I hooked up without WD. Only 20# went to the trailer.---

Al, here's the way I would interpret your scales data:

First, I find it easier to make sense of the numbers if the two GCWs (with TT attached) are equal.
Your numbers, 15300" for the second data set and 15340" for the third set, differ by 40# -- which is not uncommon.

Since GCW is made up of TV front and rear axle loads and TT axle loads, errors in any of them could result in unequal GCWs.
For simplicity, I would arbitrarily increase the two TV axle loads from the second set by 10# each, and decrease the two TV axle loads from the third set by 10# each.
This "adjustment" changes the respective values to
4590 + 4870 + 5860 = 15320 and
4750 + 4650 + 5920 = 15320

However, adjusting the data to make the GCWs equal doesn't completely address your correct observation about the indicated small (20# or 60# depending on how calculated) load transfer to the TT axles.
With independently-suspended TT axles, a nose-down attitude will cause the apparent tongue weight (the load transferred to the TV) to be smaller than the actual tongue weight.
Even with a 3/4 ton truck, a 1000# TW, without WD applied, can cause enough rear-end sag to put the TT into a nose-down attitude.
With your data sets, the difference between the indicated TW and actual TW cannot be measured directly, but it can be estimated from the measured values.

Without going into details, your apparent TW appears to be about 40# lower than it should be.
If so, the previously adjusted values from the second data set should be further adjusted to
4575 + 4925 + 5820 = 15320

So, IMO, your data reasonably could be interpreted to yield an actual TW of 1040# with a load of 100# being transferred to the TT's axles.
The load removed from the front axle would be 4960-4575 = 385#, and
the load restored to the front axle would be 4750-4575 = 175#,
giving a FALR of 175/385 = 45%.

Ron

[Al and Missy]

Thanks Ron.
The trailer attitude was tongue high when hooked up and WD on. When I got home this afternoon I lowered the hitch head one hole set. This should, I think, have the dual effect of lowering the front of the trailer and increasing the WD action. If I have time tomorrow I may try to do another weighing.

The scales were at a moving and storage company and I have compared them to a CAT scale in the past. The CAT scale data was less accurate. It took mre a while to figure it out but on one of the three weighings the operator jumped the gun and weighed me with me out of the truck. I had to get out to reach the call button.

I towed with this setup about 2000 miles and it felt fine. It can only get better if i get it level and increase the WD a little.

Thanks again,

Al

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

The trailer attitude was tongue high when hooked up and WD on. When I got home this afternoon I lowered the hitch head one hole set. This should, I think, have the dual effect of lowering the front of the trailer and increasing the WD action. If I have time tomorrow I may try to do another weighing.

Al, if you have time on the next weighing, it would be good to measure how much the tongue drops (relative to level) when the TT is attached with no WD applied.

Also, when the "TV Only" weighing is made, the WDH should be in the receiver and the bars should either be in the hitch head or placed in the far rear of the truck bed.
I note that you subtracted 114# (for "Hitch") from the "Receiver" weight to calculate a "Tongue" weight.
This is the correct thing to do if the WDH and bars were not included in the "TV Only" weight.

However, not having the WDH and bars in place for the first set of weights would mean not enough load (about 42#) was removed from the front axle, and not enough load (about 156#) was added to the rear axle.
Had the WDH & bars been in place, the resulting "TV Only" front axle load would have been about 4960-42 = 4918# and the rear axle load would have been about 3500+156 = 3656.
The load removed from the front axle (using my adjusted values) would be 4918-4575 = 343#.
The FALR then would be 175/343 = 51% versus the 45% which I calculated using your "TV Only" axle loads.

If your objective is to increase the amount of load transfer, each additional pound transferred to the TT's axles will cause about 1.7# to be added to the TV's front axle and about 2.7# to be added to the rear.

Ron

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

If your objective is to increase the amount of load transfer, each additional pound transferred to the TT's axles will cause about 1.7# to be added to the TV's front axle and about 2.7# to be added to the rear.

Please note the "added to" in my previous post is incorrect.

The sentence should read:

If your objective is to increase the amount of load transfer, each additional pound transferred to the TT's axles will cause about 1.7# to be added to the TV's front axle and about 2.7# to be removed from the rear.

Ron

[mefly2]

When the Rock Tamers are attached to the shank, I just straddle the hitch, lift by the RT tubes and duck walk it to the TV. However, when the RT are not on the hitch, I have an "S" hook attached to some heavy sailing line that provide a very nice handhold for maneuvering the hitch into storage or installation on the TV...

There will be, however, a roll around / caster unit built in the near future as my back is aging! The biggest issue for me is storing the RT equipped hitch when not on the TV ...

[KJRitchie]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Never mind. Found your picture up thread. Make the top floor about an inch lower than the distance from the ground to the bottom of your eq head. Mock up a block fixture to hold the assembly upright.

I'm wondering if I could attach a scissors jack to a rolling base then a platform on top of the scissor pad then I could crank up the platform to the desired height.

Something like this but on a smaller scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKUVgv_iLtM

Kelvin

[sheriff1]

http://m.harborfreight.com/1000-lbs-...art-69148.html
One of the handiest things I have in the shop. Lifts generators into trucks, removes evap coolers from windows, etc.


2015 F350 CC 4X4 6.7 Diesel
2010 27FB Silver Cloud "The Silver Spoon"

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

Al, if you have time on the next weighing, it would be good to measure how much the tongue drops (relative to level) when the TT is attached with no WD applied.

Also, when the "TV Only" weighing is made, the WDH should be in the receiver and the bars should either be in the hitch head or placed in the far rear of the truck bed.
I note that you subtracted 114# (for "Hitch") from the "Receiver" weight to calculate a "Tongue" weight.
This is the correct thing to do if the WDH and bars were not included in the "TV Only" weight.

However, not having the WDH and bars in place for the first set of weights would mean not enough load (about 42#) was removed from the front axle, and not enough load (about 156#) was added to the rear axle.
Had the WDH & bars been in place, the resulting "TV Only" front axle load would have been about 4960-42 = 4918# and the rear axle load would have been about 3500+156 = 3656.
The load removed from the front axle (using my adjusted values) would be 4918-4575 = 343#.
The FALR then would be 175/343 = 51% versus the 45% which I calculated using your "TV Only" axle loads.

If your objective is to increase the amount of load transfer, each additional pound transferred to the TT's axles will cause about 1.7# to be added to the TV's front axle and about 2.7# to be added to the rear.

Ron

Ron,

Thanks for the continuing review. The hitch head and bars were not on the truck when I weighed the truck only. They were both times when I weighed the combination.

While I understand your comment about the weight transfer and whether the hitch and bars were on the truck for the truck only weighing, for maintenance of steering control, wouldn't we want to be trying to preserve the front axle load of the truck alone, not with the extra weight of the hitch and bars on the back?

I was going to comment on the math in your last sentence, but I see you caught it. I'm going to try to get a weighing in on the way out of town tomorrow. Not going to have time today.

Al

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

I picked up my trailer today for an imminent trip and decided to weigh it since I have not validated the setup on the new TV. The numbers were surprising, probably because I don't understand something.

As a preface, I checked the trailer level at the storage facility where they have a nice flat level space. It looked a little tongue high to me so that is the first thing I need to correct.

TV - 2013 Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 CTD with 3.42
TT - 2001 Safari 25

The curious thing about the weights is that very little weight was transferred to the trailer. 200# came off of the rear axle. 180# of it went to the front. That amount put me right at 50% restoration of the weight that lifted off when I hooked up without WD. Only 20# went to the trailer. Is that a function of the stiff suspension of the 3/4T truck? It may be a good thing, because I'm over the TT GVWR, but I was too lazy to put a lot of stuff that normally goes in the TV and was stored in the TT into the TV before going to get weighed, and I think the Gray and Black tanks are close to full with the softener/detergent cleaning solution. I think I'll probably be under the limit when I empty tanks and put the TV stuff in the TV.

Here are the numbers:



The facility I used has only a single long scale. I weighed the TV front, whole TV, and the TT. The TV Rear is calculated. I have checked this scale against a CAT scale and it is very close. The few check numbers I ran, like the GCVWR for both hitched cases, agree to within less than 1%.

Al - Confused Again......

Your rigging is within 100 pounds of being PERFECT

Find something else to worry about.

Andy

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

While I understand your comment about the weight transfer and whether the hitch and bars were on the truck for the truck only weighing, for maintenance of steering control, wouldn't we want to be trying to preserve the front axle load of the truck alone, not with the extra weight of the hitch and bars on the back?

Al,

The WDH and bars, in effect, become part of the truck.
They add to the mass of the truck and cause the center of mass to move slightly rearward.

The WDH and bars do cause a slight reduction in load on the front axle and a slight increase in load on the rear.
However, since the CM has moved slightly rearward, the effect of decreased load on the front multiplied by increased distance to CM tends to be balanced by the effect of increased load on the rear multiplied by decreased distance to the CM.

In short, it is neither necessary nor desirable to restore/remove the axle loads which are subtracted/added by the weight of the WDH and bars.
The added mass of the WDH and bars automatically compensates by moving the center of mass of truck and cargo rearward.

The "TV Only" weight should include everything which is going to be in/on the TV while towing.
The WDH and bars are part of the TV's cargo.

Ron

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

Al,

The WDH and bars, in effect, become part of the truck.
They add to the mass of the truck and cause the center of mass to move slightly rearward.

The WDH and bars do cause a slight reduction in load on the front axle and a slight increase in load on the rear.
However, since the CM has moved slightly rearward, the effect of decreased load on the front multiplied by increased distance to CM tends to be balanced by the effect of increased load on the rear multiplied by decreased distance to the CM.

In short, it is neither necessary nor desirable to restore/remove the axle loads which are subtracted/added by the weight of the WDH and bars.
The added mass of the WDH and bars automatically compensates by moving the center of mass of truck and cargo rearward.

The "TV Only" weight should include everything which is going to be in/on the TV while towing.
The WDH and bars are part of the TV's cargo.

Ron

Over 45 years ago, it was determined by various tests that the following is the best way for utilizing a travel trailer with a load equalizing hitch,

For example, assume a 900 pound tongue weight.

600 pounds should be transfered to the tow vehicle and 300 pounds should go back to the trailer. Further, the 600 pounds going to the tow vehicle should be equally divided to the 4 wheels, or 150 pounds to each wheel.

If there is an adequate trunk or rear end load placed in the tow vehicle, then some of it's weight can also be transfered to the front tow vehicle axle.

To remove weight from the front axle, will deem the steering wheel to become progressively useless, which in turn simply means your asking for a loss of control.

Andy

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

To remove weight from the front axle, will deem the steering wheel to become progressively useless, which in turn simply means your asking for a loss of control.

As I attempted to explain in response to Al's question about the weight of the WDH and bars:

Any mass added to a TV behind the rear axle will cause load to be removed from the front axle.
The added mass also will cause the TV's center of mass to move rearward.

The load on the front tires is reduced, but the distance from the front tires to the CM is increased.
Since the length of the moment arm (distance from axle to CM) is increased, the front tires can cause the same amount of steering torque.

The steering ability of the front tires does not become progressively worthless, because the tires are exerting their force over a longer moment arm.

Now, if you're talking about load removed from the TV's front axle due to the downward force on the ball resulting from "tongue weight" -- you're talking about a completely different situation.
The reason it's different is because the "tongue weight" removes load from the TV's front axle, but doesn't cause a rearward movement of the TV's center of mass.

Ron

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Over 45 years ago, it was determined by various tests that the following is the best way for utilizing a travel trailer with a load equalizing hitch,

For example, assume a 900 pound tongue weight.

600 pounds should be transfered to the tow vehicle and 300 pounds should go back to the trailer. Further, the 600 pounds going to the tow vehicle should be equally divided to the 4 wheels, or 150 pounds to each wheel.

Andy,

Someday I would like to see some documentation of the "various tests".

Perhaps that would help me understand why your conclusions are in disagreement with results of a scientific study conducted for DOT-NHTSA.

Results of the DOT-NHTSA study are discussed in Post #3 of http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ml#post1524036.

Ron

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Your rigging is within 100 pounds of being PERFECT

Find something else to worry about.

Andy,

Are you referring to the front and rear values for "WD On" -- (4760# versus 4660#)?
Are you implying that a "PERFECT" WDH adjustment would cause those values to be equal?

Al's scale numbers indicate the front axle LOST 200# (4760-4960) while the rear axle GAINED 1160# (4660-3500), giving a TV gain of 960#.
So, the distribution of the 960# added to the TV was:
Front axle = -20.8%
Rear axle = 120.8%.

In another post you stated the best way to utilize an equalizing hitch was to adjust it so the load added to the TV's front axle was equal to the load added to the TV's rear axle.

Clearly, -200# is not equal to +1160#.

There seems to be a significant disagreement between
1) "PERFECT" rigging in one post, and
2) the "best way for utilizing a travel trailer with a load equalizing hitch" in another post.

Ron

[Rocinante]

Say, what size socket does one need to tighten the bolts in the EQ hitch head to 45 ft lbs? Can we achieve that with just a torque wrench, or do we need another wrench on the other side to hold everything in place while tightening?

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Say, what size socket does one need to tighten the bolts in the EQ hitch head to 45 ft lbs? Can we achieve that with just a torque wrench, or do we need another wrench on the other side to hold everything in place while tightening?

Hi, on my eleven year old Equal-I-zer the socket bolts enter from the bottom of the hitch head. There is a hex built into the hitch head which holds the head of the bolts from turning while torqueing the nuts. I believe that the newer ones work the same way, but the bolts enter through the top and the nuts are on the bottom. Mine uses a 15/16" socket for the nuts.

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

...

Now, if you're talking about load removed from the TV's front axle due to the downward force on the ball resulting from "tongue weight" -- you're talking about a completely different situation.
The reason it's different is because the "tongue weight" removes load from the TV's front axle, but doesn't cause a rearward movement of the TV's center of mass.

Ron

And this is the part i dont understand. Why is 900# of tongue weight any different from a 900# weight sitting on the hitch?

Taken to the limit, no matter how far aft the weight is, if it lifts the front tires off the ground, they won't provide any steering force. Not trying to be argumentative, just want to understand.

Al

[paiceman]

After 10,000 miles on this hitch, used Reese for 45 years, the ball has wear on the back side, ie the side facing the trailer? It took me a while to get used to his hitch, finally while out I downloaded a dealer video and worked it all out as far as hitching and unhitching. Still not sure I like this hitch enough to keep it. Bolts holding bars to the heads have loosened so I'll tighten them to the 45# as recommended. But now looking at anderson. I DO like the fact I can back into any location without taking bars off of the Equalizer