Do I need an anti sway hitch?

[Downhill502]

I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion and all that have contributed. One question that has always peaked my interest is how is it that every Airstream over a certain length is delivered all over the country by means of “freeballing”? Thanks to this forum for this new term btw lol. Just curious on thoughts about all of these units being transported with no WD or sway control? There are numerous threads like this that suggest that if you are not using WD, sway control, or a vpp hitch you are risking your life as well as everyone else on the road? Is there a point where if a tv is of appropriate weight/size that these additional items are unnecessary or are transport companies limited to a set max speed, ie 55mph? Thanks for any input.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Downhill502

I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion and all that have contributed. One question that has always peaked my interest is how is it that every Airstream over a certain length is delivered all over the country by means of “freeballing”? Thanks to this forum for this new term btw lol. Just curious on thoughts about all of these units being transported with no WD or sway control? There are numerous threads like this that suggest that if you are not using WD, sway control, or a vpp hitch you are risking your life as well as everyone else on the road? Is there a point where if a tv is of appropriate weight/size that these additional items are unnecessary or are transport companies limited to a set max speed, ie 55mph? Thanks for any input.

Well as I’ve said before - I can drive 100,000 miles without using my seatbelt and assume I don’t need one. Until I do. That argument has been used by someone claiming 12,000 miles “on the ball” is all the science needed to confirm nothing else is needed. Uhm...ok, sure.... [emoji20]

I can tell you the last time I was at the factory I saw a mangled Pendleton edition on the lot. It had been in an accident on its way to the dealer. I don’t know how it happened or whether they were “freeballing” in the delivery. Doesn’t matter - the point is - it’s a system. There are things in our control - like how we load the trailer, maintain tire pressure, don’t drive extended hours without breaks, keep the speed reasonable, etc., and there’s stuff out of our control like weather, inattentive drivers, deer running in front of you from out of nowhere, etc.

Can you “freeball”? Sure. Is it the safest way to tow? Absolutely not.

Read and follow your manuals. Take the rig to the scales. Depending on configuration, WD may or may not be needed. Some form of sway control is always smart. There’s 100 other things to pay attention to as well. These are some basics that really aren’t worth arguing though some enjoy the sport of trolling - sadly, common sense isn’t that common anymore...

[SailorSam205]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

I don't claim to be a physicist, and I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but as best I remember, moving weight farther out on a lever INCREASES the force exerted by that weight. That is why, when you need to lift something with a lever, getting a longer lever lets you use less force.

Assuming the TW of the trailer is a constant, moving that TW a foot farther out from the tow vehicle's receiver increases the apparent weight on the receiver rather then decreasing it.

That is why torque wrenches are calibrated in foot-pounds. The weight (pounds) at the distance (in feet). One pound on a one foot lever is one foot pound. One pound on a two foot lever is two foot pounds.

I read the follow-ups on this. I want to expand on a couple of things.
1. For the most part, the weight that causes TW is located between the trailer axle(s) and the end of the tongue. So the added length does work to reduce the measured force generally called tongue weight.
2. Because of the Hensley design, the tongue weight is applied on the TV closer to the TV axle. I'll leave it to the engineers to explain, but it is my opinion that this improves the ability of the TV to control the trailer.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by Hittenstiehl

Airforums has an option to ignore a poster (member) of information.

All future posts from that poster will just show as a message that says ignored post.

You can choose to open the ignored post or just skip over it.

When someone is spreading dangerously wrong information, I don't want to ignore him. If I do, then his incorrect pronouncements stand without contradiction and appear to novices to be correct. I feel it is imperative to respond with correct information so a new user who finds this thread in the future will at least know there is controversy about the subject and, hopefully, will do his own investigations. When I respond to people like this, I am not trying to convince them. You can't logic people out of opinions they have not been logic'ed (term trademarked ) into. I am warning future readers not to take what they read here too seriously without their own verification.

[Hittenstiehl]

Bobbi, I agree. There is a obligation to get the good info out for new readers/owners.

224 posts here and Lord knows how many different threads its been repeated.

Unsubscribed

[Profxd]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Please...

What made it hard to comprehend?

I think most comprehend the facts pretty well. You and your partner OOS have wasted hundreds of comments preaching things like the ONLY thing you need is to load correctly and freeball, 10% tongue is all you need, have a truck 2X the weight of your trailer, apply UHaul utility trailer advice to your completely different Airstream travel trailer - etc etc. you’ve completely obfuscated the obvious and now pretend you weren’t saying what you were saying.

That’s gaslighting.

That’s trolling.

That’s easy to understand.

Also easy to understand are some basics on safe towing. You and OOS offer something different. That’s easy to understand too.

What I stated above is all I ever promoted on this forum. Someone actually called me irresponsible for doing so. Being able to use the Hensley design with minimal or no WD is probably the ultimate setup. I check my local Craigslist regularly for a used one at a reasonable cost. Many hitch manufacturers don’t like the TV manufacturers putting tension limits on the WDH because it limits the effectiveness of their designs. Less tension reduces lateral stiffness. The WDH with sway control should be used as an added measure to give a greater margin of safety that already exists.

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by Profxd

What I stated above is all I ever promoted on this forum. Someone actually called me irresponsible for doing so. Being able to use the Hensley design with minimal or no WD is probably the ultimate setup. I check my local Craigslist regularly for a used one at a reasonable cost. Many hitch manufacturers don’t like the TV manufacturers putting tension limits on the WDH because it limits the effectiveness of their designs. Less tension reduces lateral stiffness. The WDH with sway control should be used as an added measure to give a greater margin of safety that already exists.

Hello, if you really want to know or need a refresher I recommend the Podcast I posted in #212 of this thread, it’s informative and you won’t be left with any misconceptions of how the Hensley works. Not sure what you are saying that it will limit lateral movement by not tightening WD, “reduced lateral stiffness” ‘lateral’ in the context you used it is ‘sway’. Tightening WD on the Hensley has nothing to do with ‘sway’ Listen to the Podcast.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Having towed our '63 Safari for 18 Seasons I figured I had WD & sway control figured out pretty well.

Why should any thing change with the new Classic. Well it did after the Second Season of Streaming we were considering an upgrade...but what?

I finally rationalized that we had spent a goodly amount on a new AS, maybe spending more on what some other folks were saying was the best would be worthwhile.
Even though all of those folks were having a very hard time explaining why and how it was the best.

We bit the bullet, got a new Hensley Arrow, 15 Seasons no looking back, no regrets.👍

BTW.... amortized $186.666666/yr

Bob
🇺🇸

Just do what the commercial 'sez.....🤔

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgB25WBeBxA

[Profxd]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

Hello, if you really want to know or need a refresher I recommend the Podcast I posted in #212 of this thread, it’s informative and you won’t be left with any misconceptions of how the Hensley works. Not sure what you are saying that it will limit lateral movement by not tightening WD, “reduced lateral stiffness” ‘lateral’ in the context you used it is ‘sway’. Tightening WD on the Hensley has nothing to do with ‘sway’ Listen to the Podcast.

I’m not questioning the Hensley in any way. It’s the other type hitches I’m referring to about tension.

[out of sight]

I can't see getting a Hensley hitch. To me it seems dangerous as it is more prone to making your rig jackknife than any other hitch on the market. There are several reasons for this: it extends the distance from the tow vehicle axle to the hitch point by over a foot, it adds 200 lbs of mass directly onto the hitch point and the linkage can in certain cases create a lateral shock on the system (the Hensley bump). Combine these with weight distribution and you have a recipe for disaster. Note that jackknife has nothing to do with trailer sway. The hitch may prevent sway but it promotes the more dangerous jackknifing.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I can't see getting a Hensley hitch.

And luckily I will never see you on the road...OOSOOM.

Bob
🇺🇸

[r carl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

The most important point is not even mentioned, i.e., the reaction of the driver to trailer sway. Trailer sway itself is not a problem (as long as you don't get close to critical speed). The problem comes in when the driver overreacts to trailer sway and tries to correct it. This can amplify the sway oscillations and throw your tow vehicle into a jackknife accident.

A professional driver does not use a sway control hitch because he knows that the sway will dampen by itself. He keeps the wheel straight and does not try to correct sway. A novice, on the other hand, might benefit from a friction sway bar if it keeps him from panicking.

What you wrote here is correct!

[Silvr_Bullet]

some are content to remain blind, oh well. forward and onward to other topics.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by Downhill502

I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion and all that have contributed. One question that has always peaked my interest is how is it that every Airstream over a certain length is delivered all over the country by means of “freeballing”? Thanks to this forum for this new term btw lol. Just curious on thoughts about all of these units being transported with no WD or sway control? There are numerous threads like this that suggest that if you are not using WD, sway control, or a vpp hitch you are risking your life as well as everyone else on the road? Is there a point where if a tv is of appropriate weight/size that these additional items are unnecessary or are transport companies limited to a set max speed, ie 55mph? Thanks for any input.

The suspension, steering, handling and braking systems are all made up of feedback control systems and can be very accurately modeled as such. If you understand the system and stability characteristics and avoid situations where stability is compromised, you can safely tow a rated load on a qualified vehicle by carefully following the vehicle manual, since these are based on real life testing, and then by further adjusting driving habits to ensure stability in all situations. You rely on liability insurance to cover any situations outside of the drivers control.

Ok, so some detail. Handling stability is a function of many variables including weather and road conditions and speed. If you understand your vehicle configuration, and your load, you can go from one point to another safely by simply adjusting speed so long as you avoid high traffic and congestion. All vehicles combinations are inherently stable at 0-5 mph. Then as you increase speed you begin to approach situations where various handling characteristics degrade. Vehicles close to the haul weight limits degrade much faster and therefore drivers much watch speed closer than those with a lot of extra capacity.

Trailer manufactures need to sell trailers as new so they don't want to strap hitches on the frames. They would rather hire skilled drivers with big tow vehicles who monitor speed or often flat bed them. It's a risk they are willing to take.

So the haulers use the right tow vehicle, understand stability concepts, choose a planned routes, have a journey plan, and watch their speed. Would these drivers prefer even more stability? Of course they would, but they also want to get paid to do their job so....

Can you do the same? Sure, this is what out of sight keeps advocating although he does not understand suspension, steering, braking, handling and control systems so his technical advice is also all wrong. But sure if you are a skilled driver, you carefully plan routes so you can safely choose your desired speed without becoming a hazard to others by creating traffic congestion and raising tempers, and you stick to your plan, you can do the same.

The more sensible among us realize that we may not be professional drivers, we are leisurely traveling not on a firmly fixed schedule, without a rigid plan and without a firm understanding of road and weather conditions ahead of us or the limits of our vehicles. So we buy some extra protection from sway and we redistribute load to take advantage of the vehicles preferred steering geometry. Everybody has to pick their poison, there is no free lunch.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I can't see getting a Hensley hitch. To me it seems dangerous as it is more prone to making your rig jackknife than any other hitch on the market.

It is inappropriate and alarmist to describe Hensley and Pro Pride hitches as "dangerous" and more prone to [over steer] than any other hitch.

(full disclosure, I do not own a Hensley or Pro Pride hitch but I find them to be a very clever in design)

Originally Posted by out of sight

There are several reasons for this: it extends the distance from the tow vehicle axle to the hitch point by over a foot,

The relevant lever is not to the rear axle, it is to the TV Center of Gravity so for typical vehicles that is an additional 4-8% Yaw torque. It is equivalent to towing with a single full verses empty water tank. Would you describe driving with a full black tank as "dangerous"?

Originally Posted by out of sight

it adds 200 lbs of mass directly onto the hitch point and the linkage can in certain cases create a lateral shock on the system (the Hensley bump).

Similar to adding a typical load of firewood to your tow vehicle or another half tank of water to your trailer. Should we now declare someone with a tank a water and a bit of firewood on board as being dangerous? NO! We should note that this person has made a trade off.

Originally Posted by out of sight

Combine these with weight distribution and you have a recipe for disaster. Note that jackknife has nothing to do with trailer sway. The hitch may prevent sway but it promotes the more dangerous jackknifing.

It is not a recipe for disaster, it is a sensible trade off. This person has chosen to eliminate sway at the cost of a bit of under steer tendency. On a vehicle like mine, that is not a bad trade either because under steer is so severe with my truck by design. If you drive a 1966 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser towing a 8000 lb trailer, only then you may have a point.

[SteveSueMac]

Given the source, I expect sales of Hensleys and ProPrides to sky rocket! [emoji23]

[r carl]

Here is a simple anti sway hitch for a trailer that is not in need of major anti sway protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FhIEc62mKA

[ROBERT CROSS]

🤓 Andersen...don't bother.

Bob
🇺🇸

[BayouBiker]

Hey Bob, I know you, me and many others are not a fan of Andersen's founder after he or his family defaced a rock formation at Arches National Park.

The product is an interesting and effective approach to WD and sway damping. It is a technically competent design that is simple to use and is less likely to induce damage in reverse situations and over rough terrain, but its friction and tension components are neoprene springs, they wear out and require replacement over time.

It also had some minor issues with the now discontinued attwood/marvel coupler when the ball fit is loose due to manufacturing clearance variations, so careful with that. Because of the sway damping design, the ball must fit tight with very little slop or the tension arms will get out of alignment when making slow hard turns. When I looked at the Andersen, they were not recommending them for the marvel style couplers, it is possible they still are not.

[moosetags]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I can't see getting a Hensley hitch. To me it seems dangerous as it is more prone to making your rig jackknife than any other hitch on the market. There are several reasons for this: it extends the distance from the tow vehicle axle to the hitch point by over a foot, it adds 200 lbs of mass directly onto the hitch point and the linkage can in certain cases create a lateral shock on the system (the Hensley bump). Combine these with weight distribution and you have a recipe for disaster. Note that jackknife has nothing to do with trailer sway. The hitch may prevent sway but it promotes the more dangerous jackknifing.

I am at least as experienced as this this guy, and I believe him to be grossly incorrect. I have been towing Airstreams for fifteen years, and have over 2,000 nights of Airstream camping all over the United States, including Alaska, and Canada. I have chalked up almost 200,000 miles of actually towing an Airstream travel trailer.

I have been using the same Hensley Arrow hitch system since the beginning. I have never had the slightest sway problem, even in high crosswinds. The trailer and tow vehicle does not budge when passed by a semi in either direction. I have never jackknifed the trailer, not even once.

Brian