Dealer recommends Equalizer as a more 'user friendly' than ProPride?

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I've never used a gun in a crime, but I think I'd be qualified to sit on a jury.
Some folks feel the need to "win" way too seriously.

Well, ok - but you wouldn't be asked to testify.

Not trying to "win" anything here - just tired of uninformed bashing. It is what it is. Carry on and have fun camping - that's about all that really matters....

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

I beg to disagree. When I got into this and was evaluating hitches, I went with the ProPride because I concluded it was the safest possible hitch. None of the other factors carried any weight. No pros or cons, nothing, just safety. Priceless.
Larry

I believed that at one time, but since then I have concluded that the safety picture is less clear.

Both of the 4-bar hitch manufacturers sell in low volumes. As far as I have been able to determine, neither of them owns a manufacturing facility. They contract out the manufacturing and assembly of the hitch components. This is common for low-volume products.

There has been one well-known and well-documented weld failure of a 4-bar hitch that led to loss of the connection between the tow vehicle and the trailer. The failure involved a welded joint on the stinger. Fortunately, it occurred at walking speed and no one was hurt. Consensus at the time was that the welds were improperly made and did not penetrate far enough. The manufacturer replaced the hitch under warranty, and reportedly made some production changes at some point. There has been no recall, and the manufacturer has been evasive when asked about the number of other failures in the field, the number of units believed to have been shipped with bad welds, the specifics of any production change, and how the QA process failed to detect the problem before units were shipped.

I do not believe that the major high-volume hitch manufacturers have structural problems with their hitches, because they sell 100x or 1000x as many of them a year, and if there were problems in the field they would have attracted regulatory notice. While I do not know the specifics of Cequent etc.'s manufacturing and quality practices, I will note that it is far more cost effective to perform quality monitoring -- both through process control and testing -- in these quantities than when ordering custom welded products 20 or 100 at a time.

Trailer sway accidents rarely result in fatalities.

Most fatalities involving trailers (of all kinds; statistics aren't broken out by hitch type or rv vs. other trailer types) result from the trailer detaching from the tow vehicle. Most frequently this is because the ball size does not match the hitch size, because the hitch is not properly and securely latched, or because of a structural failure of the attachment between the ball and the frame of the tow vehicle. The usual accident scenario is separation of the trailer and tow vehicle, followed by the trailer entering an oncoming lane of traffic or hitting a pedestrian.

I am unconvinced that the sway-control benefit of the 4-bar hitches poses a life safety improvement sufficient to overcome the life safety deficiency posed by greater risk of structural failure.

Now, if your concern is preservation of aluminum, or you want to go fast in a crosswind, sure, the 4-bar hitches are for you.

[bono]

Some people logic – only trucks can tow larger trailers and we do not need ProPride, because we have oversized tow vehicles and we have never experienced sway.

Other people logic – SUV can tow larger trailers and we do need ProPride to eliminate any possibility of sway.

By the way, I do not think that ProPride adds that much to the TW vs. regular WDH. PP is longer, so the longer lever arm results in less TW. Maybe it was mentioned before, but I did not go through all posts.

Happy camping!

[wolf146]

Originally Posted by bono

By the way, I do not think that ProPride adds that much to the TW vs. regular WDH. PP is longer, so the longer lever arm results in less TW. Maybe it was mentioned before, but I did not go through all posts.

Ok After having read much of this thread and following all the arguments. I have been entertained.

But the above statement doesn't make sense to me. Let me understand " PP is longer, so the lever arm results in less TW ( trailer weight)?
Could you clarify the physics behind that statement?
The PP does add quite a bit of weight to the tow vehicle.
Wolf146

[gandttimes]

Where is Ralph Nader when you need him.
He would have to declare that an Airstream is unsafe at any speed unless towed using a Pro Pride or a Hensley.
Then of course Airstream would be forced to comply by making it a mandatory option.

I choose to believe that we are all capable of making our own choices regarding hitches and there is no one size fits all.

[xrvr]

Unfortunately nader is a live and well and still spewing out lies.

[gandttimes]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Unfortunately nader is a live and well and still spewing out lies.

Exactly!

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by bono

Other people logic – SUV can tow larger trailers and we do need ProPride to eliminate any possibility of sway.

My logic:
Before I plop down $3000 for a hitch, let me see if the $500 one works for me.

[bono]

Since I am not an engineer, I will use a snapshot found on another forum, which shows how the weight changes based on the on measurement location.

My understanding is that the longer the arm, the lower the tongue weight. If I misunderstood this, apologies. Definitely, there is 200 lbs weight difference between the weight under my jack and at the end of the stinger.

Originally Posted by wolf146

Ok After having read much of this thread and following all the arguments. I have been entertained.

But the above statement doesn't make sense to me. Let me understand " PP is longer, so the lever arm results in less TW ( trailer weight)?
Could you clarify the physics behind that statement?
The PP does add quite a bit of weight to the tow vehicle.
Wolf146

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by wolf146

Ok After having read much of this thread and following all the arguments. I have been entertained.

But the above statement doesn't make sense to me. Let me understand " PP is longer, so the lever arm results in less TW ( trailer weight)?
Could you clarify the physics behind that statement?
The PP does add quite a bit of weight to the tow vehicle.
Wolf146

Several members have weighed the Hensley/ProPride installed, at different positions along the length of the tongue and receiver. It weighs less at the tow vehicle receiver. Not all combinations will have the exact results because of different factors, such as distance from the trailer's coupler to its axles.

As Bono mentioned the lighter weight of his ProPride-installed trailer tongue when weighed at the receiver position compared to further back on the tongue, I'll reference his earlier experiment, post and photo.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ml#post1924420

[PKI]

Reference posts 157 and 158. The analysis is more complicated than what is represented with the free body diagram. Forces increase when the coach is towed because that movement adds acceleration when the TV and trailer react to inconsistencies in the road surface. Acceleration amplifies force. Shock loads can be significant.

The vehicle suspensions will dampen these forces. Acceleration is absorbed and reversed with limited shock, unless the suspension is overwhelmed as in a chuck hole event. If the structures are robust the extra weight is not problematic. For TVs with a borderline tongue weight capacity, take care not to assume your problem is solved with a longer shank. Pat

[bono]

Pat, I think we are referring to two different issues. All my comments refer to static loads - let's compare apple to apples. A trailer with longer tongue should have lower TW than a trailer with a shorter tongue.

When in motion, I agree that the forces will be different (for both trailers - shorter and longer tongue), but you will have lower TW to start with for the trailer with a longer tongue.

[aftermath]

Here we are, 172 posts later and the argument continues as scripted. The PP/HA folks will go to any length to convince everyone that they are the best hitches.....ever and will use the tired phrases from the advertising literature combined with volumes of techno physics talk.

OK, I am going to give in and agree that these are the best for all the reasons you state. My issue is why can't you let others use other choices without have to disparage them. I had an Equalizer on a previous trailer and now have one on the used Airstream I purchased. I read all the warnings about Equalizers and thought that I was going to tear up my aluminum because it was so "stiffly connected" to the trailer. I was going to experienced white knuckle driving with such an inferior hitch. Well, I made sure it was set up properly and watched closely for cracks in the panels, popped rivets and that ever ominous sway I was going to have when passing trucks went by. Guess what, none of this has ever happened.

I have towed 40K miles in mountains, on the flats, on two lane roads and freeways. I have experienced high winds and heavy rain and, on one occasion, a snow storm. NEVER had any issues with sway.

So, while the PP is far superior, my lowly Equalizer has served me well and I frankly see no need to change. I am sure that others are in the same boat but we will continue to tolerate the barrage of criticism from those who know better. If I had a trailer and hitch combo that caused me grief, I am sure that I would be looking at the holy grail of hitches. Mine doesn't, so I am not. Best wishes to all of you for whatever choice you make.

Oh, speaking of data. I would like to know if there are any statistics about serious accidents caused by sway and what hitches were being used. I am guessing that the PP crowd would fare better here but, by how much? I would like to see some data, not theoretical ideas.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by aftermath

Here we are, 172 posts later and the argument continues as scripted. The PP/HA folks will go to any length to convince everyone that they are the best hitches.....ever and will use the tired phrases from the advertising literature combined with volumes of techno physics talk.

OK, I am going to give in and agree that these are the best for all the reasons you state. My issue is why can't you let others use other choices without have to disparage them. I had an Equalizer on a previous trailer and now have one on the used Airstream I purchased. I read all the warnings about Equalizers and thought that I was going to tear up my aluminum because it was so "stiffly connected" to the trailer. I was going to experienced white knuckle driving with such an inferior hitch. Well, I made sure it was set up properly and watched closely for cracks in the panels, popped rivets and that ever ominous sway I was going to have when passing trucks went by. Guess what, none of this has ever happened.

I have towed 40K miles in mountains, on the flats, on two lane roads and freeways. I have experienced high winds and heavy rain and, on one occasion, a snow storm. NEVER had any issues with sway.

So, while the PP is far superior, my lowly Equalizer has served me well and I frankly see no need to change. I am sure that others are in the same boat but we will continue to tolerate the barrage of criticism from those who know better. If I had a trailer and hitch combo that caused me grief, I am sure that I would be looking at the holy grail of hitches. Mine doesn't, so I am not. Best wishes to all of you for whatever choice you make.

Oh, speaking of data. I would like to know if there are any statistics about serious accidents caused by sway and what hitches were being used. I am guessing that the PP crowd would fare better here but, by how much? I would like to see some data, not theoretical ideas.

I just don't get it. Where does this perception of VPP hitch owners as snobs come from? Serious question - is there something in my posts that gives you this opinion? I honestly want to know because I think I've been very clear - consistently - in saying pretty much any major brand will do a good job and that the aerodynamic shape of the AS works in our favor to begin with. I've also consistently talked about how important it is for everyone to know WHY they are trying to accomplish WHAT they're trying to accomplish since every decision has trade offs. I have consistently pointed out the negatives of the VPP kind of hitch (including cost & weight). If I'm saying something differently than I think I am - I truly want to know so I can be a more effective communicator.

What bothers me is I honestly think I go out of my way not to be an %$$4073 when talking about any choice (hitch, tires, coffee maker...) - especially since I see the world as loaded with options and very few right/wrong choices - and yet the vast majority of comments I see from non-VPP users suggest we VPP users are snobby %$$40735.

Look - Apples are fruit. Tomatoes are fruit. Both fruit. Can we agree they serve different purposes even though they're both classified as fruit? Can we further agree that if you prefer one and I prefer another- all we've discovered is a preference for two different fruits? Can we further agree that making an apple pie with tomatoes would be a bad idea and making tomato soup out of apples would be a bad idea - that they are both fruits and just happen to go about their fruithood in different manners? Can we also agree that those differences don't make apples bad, tomatoes good or vice versa - just makes them similar things (fruits) that work differently....?

I'm going to bed now dagnabbit - and stay off my lawn! [emoji23]

[aftermath]

SteveSueMack,

I hope you slept well. It was quite late when you signed off. OK, I did do a bit of painting with a broad brush on this one. I still hold to my premise. Most (some?) owners insult those of us who use a lesser hitch.

Here are but a few examples that I felt were insulting, disparaging and or down right nasty.

Post 77 "The PP is probably not a hitch for someone who does not or cannot understand how mechanical things work."

Post 80 "You're right. Skill acquisition is a terrible thing."

Post 90 "What do you not understand about "Best Performance?""

Post 96 "Price is a non starter. It's so low as a percentage of the vale of the combined TV & TT that it's price is then nearly indistinguishable from other types." Really? I might not be as smart as you but I can tell the difference between $2700 and $550.

Post 106 "But the insinuation that inferior is equal to superior is why these threads drag on."

Post 123 "As usual you neither read nor listen.....You got what you wanted Be happy. And maybe you'll leave alone the subjects you refuse to understand." Thank you master. I should have never questioned you.

There were a few interesting posts in this long thread. Some have actually changed back from using a PPP hitch. Done for ease of hooking up as I recall. Again, to each his own. I am perfectly at ease when I hear that someone has a PPP hitch. I only wish that they can do the same when they hear that others have something else. It is not the end of the world, just like those of us who run with our fridges running. We are not going to kill our families or harm anyone we meet on the highways.

[ijoe13]

We should transition this topic into PC vs. Mac or iOS vs. Android. Also, I want some Apple pie! [emoji519]

[bono]

Life is not perfect... I wish that truck owners accept that not only trucks can tow...

Personally, I could not care less, if somebody is using a hitch other than PP.

Originally Posted by aftermath

(...) I only wish that they can do the same when they hear that others have something else. It is not the end of the world, just like those of us who run with our fridges running. We are not going to kill our families or harm anyone we meet on the highways.

[sheriff1]

Very easy, if you WANT a PP or Hensley, great! If you NEED one, you don't have enough vehicle for your trailer.

[rmkrum]

Interesting thought, but here's another data point. My AS is well within the tow and weight ratings of my TV. Based on that, a decent WD hitch setup should be sufficient. Note that there is no good way to determine overall handling characteristics from the published numbers for either vehicle.

On real-world examination of the handling characteristics of the rig, I discovered that the handling was "twitchy" at best, and seemed to be on the verge of sway all the time, to the point that I needed to manually apply AS brakes to settle it down on the downhill of the course I was testing over. (Cajon pass between Corona, CA and Victorville, CA to be exact)

I determined that the instability was not acceptable. (Gross understatement) That lead to an engineering examination of sway control options, and purchase and installation of a Hensley design hitch (ProPride w/1000 pound WD bars)

A return to the exact same course under similar wind and weather conditions verified the decision. So, real-world testing leads me to the conclusion that the current ProPride setup is what meets my needs. I'll believe a real time full-scale test over the opinions of experts any day. (Yes, I worked for Boeing...)

Note that even if we do our planned upgrade to a Toyota Tacoma, I don't plan to change out the hitch. All it can do, because of it's design, is to improve sway prevention under the circumstances I will use it. I have no doubt a bit of fine-tuning and real-world testing will be required when we get a new vehicle.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by sheriff1

Very easy, if you WANT a PP or Hensley, great! If you NEED one, you don't have enough vehicle for your trailer.

Makes sense. Why spend $2500 on a PP or Hensley to eliminate trailer sway when you can spend $65000 to mask it.