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09-24-2011, 12:21 PM
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#21
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Rivet Master
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,118
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I have no idea what caused this. Following with interest. On our first caravan 3 years ago the leaders had someone inspect the welds on the hitches. One was found to have cracks and was repaired on the trip. We were told that there had been incidents of factory hitches with bad welds. This year we went on a caravan and the one of the trailers lost the hitch plate (broken welds) from the tow vechile and lost the trailer. on the way to the caravan. no damage. low speed. breakway switch worked.
Whatever happened in this wreck probably put a lot of extra load on the hitch. Or maybe the hitch failure cause it. I pull over a lot to let people by. Will think about this incident when I do that now. You feel preety safe at 45 mph. but obviously thinks can happen. The only time I have felt my trailer start to sway was in a construction lane that had a really bad hump and twist at about 45, so I know it can happen.
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09-24-2011, 12:57 PM
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#22
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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The link to the Titan forum is about a hitch receiver with constantly breaking welds that was said to be a 2010 modification by Nissan. The OP says it was a new Titan and the photo may indicate the welds are broken in the same place. The photos are not easy to read if you don't know the particular model yourself and I don't.
This doesn't prove cause and effect, but if Nissan weakened the hitch receiver in 2010, it increases the possibility that the receiver broke loose as the driver moved over to the right. There was talk on the Titan forum that the bumper and hitch receiver are integral.
There isn't a lot of room on that shoulder and I wonder if he nicked the guard rail starting the sway event and then the receiver let go. Or, the sway was caused by the failure of the receiver, possibly because of too fast a move onto the shoulder, and the guard rail caught one or both vehicles. The hitch receiver may have been ready to go and just needed a little more stress than usual. He had to be going pretty fast to flip his Titan over the guardrail.
I think I'll go look at my hitch receiver.
Gene
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09-24-2011, 01:37 PM
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#23
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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I never trusted the "round bar" receivers on the GM's and would feel the same on other makes.
While working at the Chevy store we replaced an awful lot for weld failure and cracks, the receiver head design was not very inspiring either.
This is what I took off our 06 Burb, and what I replaced it with.
Just looking at the difference should explain why.
Something we don't pay enough attention too.....inspect often!!!!
Looks to me like the receiver failed.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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09-24-2011, 01:51 PM
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#24
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
.
, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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I don't see the bolts, or the spots the bolts were torn out of, the bumper area. I see nice, round bolt holes. With nothing in them.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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09-24-2011, 01:53 PM
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#25
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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IMHO you all have missed two of the knowns that I list that, to me at least, says that the hitch receiver failure is a result and not a cause of the accident. The trailer rolled over 1/4 turn, the truck 3/4 turn.
The resulting twisting between to two, simple tore the receiver hitch apart. I believe ANY receiver would have failed in the same situation.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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09-24-2011, 02:08 PM
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#26
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Steve,
Granted it is a bit of a mystery...
2. The driver stated the trailer came loose from the TV.
If in fact #2 happened before the roll-over isn't it possible that receiver/head failure may be the cause?
Toyota like GM and others have had the problem.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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09-24-2011, 02:26 PM
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#27
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Steve, could be. But I want to know how the truck jumped over the guard rail if they were connected until the receiver came apart. Did the truck turn one quarter turn with trailer attached, keep turning, jump, twist off the receiver, land on the right side of the rail and roll another 1/2 turn?
It is curious how the trailer has rotated from being parallel to the rail to perpendicular, just like the truck.
Did the whole rig, swaying wildly (?), turn 90˚ from parallel to the rail, the truck drove over the rail and as the truck is lifted, the hitch comes apart from the stresses (perhaps already weak as Nissan's may be) and everything rolls. But the trailer is rolled on the wrong side if there was any forward momentum. Everything rotated clockwise and that must mean something, but what? If the truck hadn't be airborne it probably wouldn't have rolled as much.
Or (lots of guessing going on), if the hitch came apart because of the accident, wouldn't the parts welded to the side of the receiver be twisted? When I looked at the photos, they may be, but it is hard to tell.
I agree any receiver probably would have failed, but did it fail before the accident, or did it fail because it was weak to start with but that wasn't the cause, or did it fail during the gyrations? I have no idea how strong the strongest production receiver is or what kind of stresses they can withstand but knowledge of that may help to explain cause.
This is all speculation, of course.
Gene
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09-24-2011, 02:29 PM
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#28
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
Steve,
Granted it is a bit of a mystery...
2. The driver stated the trailer came loose from the TV.
Toyota like GM and others have had the problem.
Bob
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The driver's statement is a conclusion based on a feeling in the midst of a very stressful situation, and may not be true.
Toyota? Yikes!
Gene
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09-24-2011, 03:04 PM
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#29
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Site Team
2002 25' Safari
Dewey
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,617
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Based on the pictures, I would say that the TV and trailer crossed over the road and then impacted the guard rail. That would explain why the trailer landed on the side that it did. The guard rail is not damaged in the front of the pictures, but has several impact points past the wreck.
Everything at this point is purely speculation. Often an accident like this is the combination of several factors. The pictures are a graphic reminder to all of us that things can go terribly wrong when towing.
Please be careful out there...
__________________
Richard
Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
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09-24-2011, 03:40 PM
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#30
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2 Rivet Member
1966 17' Caravel
Metairie
, Louisiana
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
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Has anyone ruled out a failure of something on the trailer happening first causing the trailer to flip and whipping the TV with it? Axle failure? Blowout(s)?
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09-24-2011, 04:08 PM
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#31
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Islander
2005 28' International CCD
Deer Harbor
, ORCAS ISLAND WA
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 981
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hitch receiver failure
i think about it every minute...since june when backing into a camping spot the receiver on my GMC....just fell off....i think what if i had been going down the highway at 60 or so and that sucker had....after many miles of stress ...just decided it had had enough and came unglued.....
to me if that happens...then the receiver and hitch plows down into the pavement and the trailer just starts flipping and the truck...hopefully out runs it......
__________________
Kingfisher24
and the Four P's(Paula, Phoenix and Peabody II and Pearl)…Peabody is here…..
2013 GMC sierra denali
WBCCI 2541
4CU
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09-24-2011, 05:28 PM
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#32
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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King', it is the early '00's GM trucks that had the bad receivers and you got one, and Bob too. The tongue and whatever is attached to it may plow the road, but if the safety chains are attached to something that stays on the truck, it will follow you.
Richard, I thought about him crossing from the other side to hit the guard rail straight on, but he pulled over to the right to let people pass, so it must have been a 2 lane road. After the dust settled, the Airstream must have blocked the road.
Gene
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09-24-2011, 05:31 PM
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#33
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Rivet Master
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
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Very glad to hear nobody was seriously injured.
Appears the Staties are there. If they conduct an investigation, it may provide more insight (traffic accident investigations are public record). From the pix, there's no GPS on the EXIF data. Anybody know the location/county?
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09-24-2011, 05:36 PM
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#34
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2 Rivet Member
2001 30' Classic S/O
2001 36' Land Yacht XC Diesel 300 hp w/slide
Helotes
, Texas
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 91
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Between Pipe Creek, TX and Bandera, TX. Bandera county Texas
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09-24-2011, 05:36 PM
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#35
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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....it was and still is a weak point with GM.
IMHO....If it looks like this, replace it.
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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09-24-2011, 05:43 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
1964 22' Safari
modesto
, California
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,097
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Wow. Glad no one was injured. There are certainly a few scenarios that could have played into this crash. From the description of out of control swaying just prior to loosing it. I might suspect improper trailer load distribution as the initial cause of the control issue. Regardless of the type of hitch, if you load you trailer to heavey in the rear you will loose control at speed with maneuvers. That being said. I have inspected my GMC factory hitch. Looks fine to me. However it is the stock tube type. I am going to replace my factory hitch with a Reese class v receiver #41930 on Monday. DIY 30 minute job. Cheep insurance after seeing what could happen. Thanks to every one for this wake up call.
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09-24-2011, 06:09 PM
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#37
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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I think we may never know what was the cause, and what was the result. We do know the rig was west bound, began to sway, crossed over to the eastbound side, hit the guard rail, the truck going over the rail, and as I said before, the trailer turned onto the curb side, the truck ended on the other side of the railing, and on the drivers side.
It is possible the truck rolled 1/4 turn to the Left, but the trailer most definately rolled 1/4 turn to the right. No matter if the truck rolled to the left, or right, it rolled either 1/2 turn farther than the trailer, or 1/2 turn the other direction.
There were no tire failures, and no axle failures.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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09-24-2011, 06:40 PM
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#38
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2 Rivet Member
2007 23' Safari SE
Matawan
, New Jersey
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 46
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Hoo Boy! Sobering stuff for newbies like us. Thank heaven no one was seriously hurt.
Certainly plan to check and double check everything on a regular basis. Worried that we may not recognize a problem since we have so little experience. Paid very close attention today as they explained the hitch, sway bars etc. when we picked up the trailer from the dealership. Asked lots of questions.
Trying to educate ourselves as much as we can here on the forums and safety is our #1 priority.
Thanks for the information, folks. Forewarned is forearmed.
__________________
Claude & Marianne
2007 23' Safari SE Lounge (IdaJune)
'05 Toyota 4Runner LE 4.7 V8 4WD w/ tow package
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
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09-24-2011, 07:36 PM
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#39
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3 Rivet Member
2000 27' Safari
Berkeley
, California
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 135
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Huge torque involved here to shear off the hitch receiver/compress the tubing and deflect the frame mounting plates, which indicates the trailer/TV were still connected at failure.
I must admit my limited flight training has brought me to the point of full inspection of my trailer rig prior to departure. I do the walk around...That means checking tire inflation, torque on wheel and shear bolts of hitch assembly,lubing WD bar sockets, and making sure ball socket connection is sound. As further evidence of "weird" behavior, I have "Remove Prior to Flight" flags attached to all my stabilizer jack pads deployed when I camp.
I am truly happy our fellow traveller survived this ordeal. Drive safe and sensible and enjoy the journey.
I think Andy could repair the damage...
__________________
'00 Safari 27' Rear Twin
'03 Ford F-250 7.3TD/CC/LB 4x2 Bio-Diesel
"Hmmm... Smells like French Fries!"
Prodigy/Enkay/Hensley/Solar/LED lighting
AIR 4598 / WBCCI FCU 8579/
EAA 872814
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09-24-2011, 07:44 PM
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#40
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Rivet Master
1978 28' Ambassador
Morada
, California
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,584
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Also being no expert...I'm in SteveH's camp here...
From the pics, it seems...
1. the sway started
2. it got to the point that the trailer whipped far enough 'out' to lay over on its side
3. the TV was then just along for the 'ride', and as the trailer 'twisted' onto it's side, this 'twisting' motion rotated the tubular member on the trucks hitch, breaking away the welds, separating the two vehicles...
4. you can clearly see in the pic of the rear of the TV, that the tubular part of the trucks hitch has been 'reformed' to those 'twisted' configurations...
I think a TV hitch that uses a heavy 'box' member between the frame rails (as apposed to a 'tube' member) could handle the 'twisting' moment much better than seen here...
This extreme 'twisting' still has to cause something to 'break' in a situation like this, one could only hope that the trailer coupler would be the weaker link to break apart, or uncouple, therefore keeping the safety chains still attached to the TV!
Looking again at the two pics, regardless of the 'cause' of the sway/accident, the FACT remains that the attachment point of the TV's hitch receiver to the round tubular cross member was the ultimate 'weak point' in this hook-up - that's where it broke loose! That's not acceptable, as you also lose the attaching point of the safety chains!
If I had a TV hitch with a tubular cross member similar to this one, I would REPLACE it before towing my treasured Airstream ONE MORE MILE!
I think that should be the highlighted message...!
Nasty stuff, in any event, ruining one's day - but 'stuff' can be replaced easier than one's body - glad you're all OK...
__________________
Ray & Pat; Morada, CA
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