Brake Lanyard Length

[NO NOIZE]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Seems like one school of thought is that the chains should not be trusted and that if the tongue comes off the ball the trailer should be stopped ASAP.

The other school of thought is that the breakaway braking system is not to be used unless all other systems have failed, including the chains.

Without seeing some actual data detailing the results of both scenarios, it's nearly impossible for us to know which has the higher likelihood or reducing catastrophic consequences to the tongue coming off the ball.

Well stated.

Please allow me to share a concern I have:
Bare with me, If the coupler is off of the ball being cradled by the chains and the trailer brakes are not being applied. The jolt of the disconnection will most likely startle the driver and the first reaction is to apply the breaks of the tow vehicle. This will cause the trailer to contact the rear of the tow vehicle with a force directly corelated to how hard the driver steps on the foot brake.

BUT, it is possible the 7 pin connector could still be attached to the tow vehicle if it is long enough and apply the trailer braking system. BUT, the controller settings and foot application force of the tow vehicle will effect the outcome. Mine will disconnect, maybe I should make it longer?

IMHO, that knee jerk reaction (to apply the foot brake) is almost unavoidable, if the trailer emergency breakaway system was being applied in this situation, the trailer would be slowing and pulling rearward on the tow vehicle allowing for a more controlled stop.

I prefer the idea of the trailer brakes pulling me to a stop. I have witnessed both happen (not me) and the trailer braking was a better outcome. Lastly, not all trailer brakes will lock-up and skid on dry pavement when fully applied, especially some of the heavier trailers.

As Richard5933 stated "Without seeing some actual data detailing the results of both scenarios, it's nearly impossible for us to know which has the higher likelihood or reducing catastrophic consequences to the tongue coming off the ball."

[NO NOIZE]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Ok. I had this happen once.....with an empty tandem axle uhaul. The clerk didn't tighten down the coupler.
First, when it popped off, there was a lot of side to side motion. (Again empty trailer, I'd hate to feel this when full)
Second, when I applied the brakes, the trailer smashed into the rear of the truck, destroying the tail gate. (My fathers truck!)..

This was all at about 30mph. I want my trailer brakes ON if a disconnect occurs.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Airstream Forums mobile app

This is precisely what I am referring to.

[Bill M.]

A damaged tail gate is actually a fine result from a run away trailer. You were lucky. I am staying with the lanyard longer than the chains. Lock the trailer up only if it is completely free. Try to stop it with the TV if it is not. I think the trailer loose, on the chains, and stopping (without somebody in back of it hitting it) is a sorta fantasy. We are guarding against a worst case scenario with the breakaway system.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by NO NOIZE

...BUT, it is possible the 7 pin connector could still be attached to the tow vehicle if it is long enough and apply the trailer braking system. BUT, the controller settings and foot application force of the tow vehicle will effect the outcome. Mine will disconnect, maybe I should make it longer?...

The manufacturer's instructions I linked to earlier spelled out that they recommend the lanyard be slightly shorter than the chains at full extension, and that the 7-wire be slightly longer than the chains. Seems like that setup is what you're describing, and similar to how mine is currently configured.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Seems like one school of thought is that the chains should not be trusted…….

Richard

Did you see the wreck in Idaho a few yrs ago where the pickup was hanging over the bridge gorge and only one chain was holding it to the trailer on the road preventing a likely fatal drop into the gorge.



I paid for a welding shop to replace my coupler assy with a 21,000 Lb rated cast iron Demco coupler and at the same time new welded on to the frame 3/8” chain anchors that use clevis pin connections.

I chose 3/8” grade 70 chain (looks cool too) and 5/16” grade 70 hooks. They are not allowed to drag (suspended via a good bungee) and will never be twisted.

Gary

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Richard

Did you see the wreck in Idaho a few yrs ago where the pickup was hanging over the bridge gorge and only one chain was holding it to the trailer on the road preventing a likely fatal drop into the gorge.



I paid for a welding shop to replace my coupler assy with a 21,000 Lb rated cast iron Demco coupler and at the same time new welded on to the frame 3/8” chain anchors that use clevis pin connections.

I chose 3/8” grade 70 chain (looks cool too) and 5/16” grade 70 hooks. They are not allowed to drag (suspended via a good bungee) and will never be twisted.

Gary

I think I did see that.

When I got my trailer the chain anchors were rusted and weak, so I also had new 3/8" anchors welded to the tongue. Also used 3/8" chain which is the proper length and not twisted.

Still, I'd really hate to depend on all that to suspend our Suburban over the side of a bridge. Let's hope and pray it's never necessary, but it's nice to know I've done what I can to make it work properly.

[rmkrum]

I use big chain hooks on BOTH ends of the chains. It’s a solid connection to the A-frame and has the advantage that I can remove the chains easily to make the Airstream a bit harder to steal…



The silver hooks are OEM and fit on the A-frame. The even higher-rated golden monsters just fit on the TV hitch end. Yup, I cross them under the hitch and NEVER, EVER twist them. The length was adjusted with clevis connectors. Only hard part was carefully cutting the original chains off the A-frame with an angle grinder on the chain links only…a convenient bungee cord wrapped around the top of the Propride stinger on the truck end keeps the chains from ever dragging.

[GCinSC2]

Rich,


My overkill coupler and chain setup.

25,000 Lb weld on anchors.
3/8" Grade 70 chain.
5/16" Grade 70 hooks.
21,000 Lb DEMCO cast iron coupler.

I chose to have the still working Atwood coupler replaced with the DEMCO. Josh at DEMCO advised it was a new item when I was researching and it's a beast. The anchors allow chain removal for storage and the length can be adjusted at the hook by connecting to a different link in the chain.

Gary

[jondrew55]

I've had two disconnects with utility trailers (that had no brakes due to their size). One was a hauling mulch for the boy scouts. My fault for not putting the coupler latch down correctly. The trailer popped off and rammed my truck when I stopped. Luckily it was low enough speed no significant damage occurred and the safety chains kept the trailer from sailing away. Second time I was hauling a golf cart behind my Class A and I must not have put the pin in the hitch on the motorhome side. Friction kept the ball in place until I hit the highway. I looked in my rear camera and saw the trailer/golf cart swinging wildly from side to side held only in place by the safety chains. Fortunately, even though I was at highway speed, I was going up a slight incline and just gradually slowed down until the trailer completly stopped. Only damage was the ball, which was still locked in the trailer coupler, had ground down to a nub. Fortunately I had a spare, changed it out and went on my way.

In both cases, if I had a travel trailer attached, the breakaway cord would not have tripped the brakes because the cord was longer than the chains Not sure how well the trailer brakes will slow down an 8000 pound trailer dangling by chains, but it would have to be better than no brakes at all. So now I cinch the breakaway cable shorter than the chains.

This is one of those subjects I find amazing that people and "experts" seem to have no clear agreement on. So, like optimum tire pressures I think we just go ahead and do what we think is best.

[Mollysdad]

I think we can agree that the stock breakaway cable is WAY too long. It would drag on the ground. So Currently, I tie a very loose (8") double overhand knot in the cable. Keep it clear, yet if the trailer was loose, it would pull tight and engage the brakes.
I do have the 4' red coily, but haven't swapped yet.

[baytowvin]

Having had a disconnection before (thanks to the dealer not hooking up the trailer correctly and me not double checking their work, which will never happen again)….

If the tongue becomes disengaged from the ball, and comes to rest in your crossed chains, you WILL feel it happen. Start to slow your tow vehicle just like you have a flat tire and as you engage your breaks, your trailer brakes (which should still be connected via your 7-way) will also help slow the trailer.

The emergency trailer break is intended as a secondary backup in case your chains fail. It’s not a system designed to protect your trailer. It’s designed to protect others on the road from a runaway trailer.

That’s also why the cable is supposed to attach to a DIFFERENT POINT than the chains on the tow vehicle, although most of us (myself included) don’t follow that rule.

[NO NOIZE]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

This is one of those subjects I find amazing that people and "experts" seem to have no clear agreement on. So, like optimum tire pressures I think we just go ahead and do what we think is best.

This is the most intelligent assessment of the situation I have ever observed.





Sent from my SM-S102DL using Airstream Forums mobile app

[John Ware]

Originally Posted by NO NOIZE

This is the most intelligent assessment of the situation I have ever observed.





Sent from my SM-S102DL using Airstream Forums mobile app

BINGO! Running 75mph down the highway and those trailer brakes lock up there will be so much blue smoke coming off those tires (Goodyear or Michelin) that there's no telling what will happen next.

[SnowWanderer]

Originally Posted by Boxite

The thread which discussed crossing the safety-chains provoked me to bring up this Topic: Brake Lanyards.

I’ve seen that MOST people attach their brake safety-lanyards with TOO MUCH LENGTH or use a COILED lanyard.

These are WRONG PRACTICES THAT CAN KILL YOU.

Here’s why: The crossed chains are intended to capture the trailer tongue should it disconnect from the hitch-ball.

IF THAT SHOULD OCCUR: the trailer will be VERY LOOSELY attached to the tow vehicle and WILL BEGIN TO SWAY beyond control! THIS IS DEFINITE because the tongue is no longer rigidly attached to the TV. The chains are FLEXIBLE and the least amount of wind, TV steering-action, or trailer movement WILL introduce SWAY. The CHAINS will ALLOW THIS….and if not quickly stopped… may overturn and wreck the Tow Vehicle.

NOw, think about this: if your trailer begins to SWAY…What is the best action the driver should take?
HIt the TV brakes? NO!

Instead, hit the TRAILER BRAKE CONTROL…to straighten the TV/Trailer combo…to bring it all into alignment.

So… IF the trailer becomes detatched… and IF the trailer is only attached to the TV by flexible CHAINS…the ONLY way and the BEST way to maintain control is to APPLY TRAILER BRAKES to straighten-out those chains to prevent SWAY.

The BEST and most IMMEDIATE way to accomplish that action… is to have the brake lanyard shortened to the point that IF the trailer detaches from the ball-hitch…..that the TRAILER BRAKES SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY APPLIED!

This will not only alert the driver that a problem has occurred….. it will also put the
combo in the BEST condition…for safe resolution.

THINK about this. Do NOT allow excess lanyard length.

Hope this helps.

You make an interesting point, but I wonder how problematic controlling the tow vehicle will be when the trailer brakes are suddenly and unexpectedly applied?

I was under the impression that the brake away cable was intended and designed to stop the trailer after the trailer was totally disconnected from the tow vehicle.

[Ky76Argosy]

Originally Posted by JJTX

It's called a brake-away system because this assumes your trailer is not connected to your vehicle anymore. It's not supposed to engage if you have a 'disconnect' from your hitch ball. So the slack is less relevant, but it should not be 'tight".

I am confused by JJTX comment, how is “detached from ball” not “break away”?

My length is so once trailer coupling comes off hitch ball my breakaway cable is taut eg ball touching front of coupling, so ball length of slack. At this point pin starts getting pulled and chains then get taut. Otherwise, pin never gets yanked out to engage trailer break-away brakes.

Another question: my brake controller is set high to 9, and it feels like my trailer brakes engage momentarily before my Silverado brakes, may be my imagination but feels this way. So if detached, but 7pin electrical cable has more slack than chains, so still attached, I could still manually engage brake controller or apply foot brake.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by Ky76Argosy

I am confused by JJTX comment, how is “detached from ball” not “break away”?

My length is so once trailer coupling comes off hitch ball my breakaway cable is taut eg ball touching front of coupling, so ball length of slack. At this point pin starts getting pulled and chains then get taut. Otherwise, pin never gets yanked out to engage trailer break-away brakes.

Another question: my brake controller is set high to 9, and it feels like my trailer brakes engage momentarily before my Silverado brakes, may be my imagination but feels this way. So if detached, but 7pin electrical cable has more slack than chains, so still attached, I could still manually engage brake controller or apply foot brake.

Some people think that if the chains are still attaching the trailer to the tow vehicle, it is not a "break away." I have never understood that rationale, but there are those who firmly believe it.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by baytowvin

…

The emergency trailer break is intended as a secondary backup in case your chains fail. …..

NO! The emerg. trailer brakes is intended to pull the chains taut… so that the trailer will not sway and cause you to lose complete control and roll-over/or worse.!

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by Ky76Argosy

I am confused by JJTX comment, how is “detached from ball” not “break away”?

My length is so once trailer coupling comes off hitch ball my breakaway cable is taut eg ball touching front of coupling, so ball length of slack. At this point pin starts getting pulled and chains then get taut. Otherwise, pin never gets yanked out to engage trailer break-away brakes.

Another question: my brake controller is set high to 9, and it feels like my trailer brakes engage momentarily before my Silverado brakes, may be my imagination but feels this way. So if detached, but 7pin electrical cable has more slack than chains, so still attached, I could still manually engage brake controller or apply foot brake.

What exactly is your “Another question”..? (You imply a question but do not appear to ask one.)

As for the 7-pin connection, … I agree that if that connection remains intact that manual application of trailer brakes should still be available. I believe should such occur (and the break-away switch not activate) that manual application of trailer brakes would be the safest action to bring the combo to a safe stop along the side of the road.

Imagine: The tongue comes off the ball and rests upon the crossed chains. The driver lets off the accelerator and the trailer begins to overtake the vehicle. The driver continues to steer. As the vehicle slows the trailer overtakes the vehicle further slackening the chains with the result that the trailer only loosely follows the vehicle….and sway begins. The driver no longer has positive control of trailer steering and divergent momentum will worsen unless trailer brakes are applied.
The driver will be task saturated at this point, but a trailer with brakes already-applied will continue to closely follow the vehicle and provide the safest situation.

The scenario previously suggested that the trailer brakes will “lock” the wheels and “smoke” the tires is vivid …but wrong. Your trailer brakes should not be adjusted to “lock” the wheels. Locked brakes are no longer converting kinetic energy to thermal and have lost effectiveness. The trailer brakes set or adjusted to the point of lock-up are improperly set. They should be set to the point of slowing the trailer at, or slightly faster than the capability of the vehicle to slow. (This is mentioned in the post about the trailer “feeling” like its brakes apply “slightly before” the tow vehicle…which is a favorable situation.)
The modern vehicle has anti-skid brakes for the specific purpose to prevent lock-up. The ideal situation would have anti-skid on the trailer as well, but as far as I know that is not commonly available.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by Boxite

...The scenario previously suggested that the trailer brakes will “lock” the wheels and “smoke” the tires is vivid …but wrong. Your trailer brakes should not be adjusted to “lock” the wheels. Locked brakes are no longer converting kinetic energy to thermal and have lost effectiveness. The trailer brakes set or adjusted to the point of lock-up are improperly set. They should be set to the point of slowing the trailer at, or slightly faster than the capability of the vehicle to slow. (This is mentioned in the post about the trailer “feeling” like its brakes apply “slightly before” the tow vehicle…which is a favorable situation.)
The modern vehicle has anti-skid brakes for the specific purpose to prevent lock-up. The ideal situation would have anti-skid on the trailer as well, but as far as I know that is not commonly available.

There are two different aspects to adjusting brakes on a trailer...

1) The brake shoes themselves need to be adjusted in relation to the drum. Too close and they'll be dragging excessively, overheat, and fail. Too far away from the drum and they'll have to move too far, and as the drums heat up the brakes will be less and less effective until they fade to a point of not performing their brake functions.

2) The brake controller needs to be adjusted so that the trailer brakes apply just shy of being able to lock up when the tow vehicle brakes are applied.

These two adjustments are quite different, and the adjustment in #1, if done correctly, will result in trailer brakes quite capable of locking up if fully applied.

The only thing that keeps the trailer brakes from locking every time you apply the tow vehicle brakes is the brake controller. My guess is that if Ky76Argosy has got his controller set to 9, and he's feeling the trailer brakes apply before the tow vehicle, then he's got the brake controller set too high.

During a breakaway situation, where the breakaway cable pulls the switch to apply the trailer brakes, it's an all-or-nothing situation. There is no brake controller to moderate the voltage going to the electric trailer brakes - they get full voltage and will likely lock up. Whether they do or not will depend on lots of things, like the weight of the trailer, road conditions, speed, etc. But if working properly a pulled breakaway lanyard should result in a full trailer brake application.