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AWCHIEF · 11-08-2013, 08:53 PM

Had an interesting and unintended test of my Andersen system today. I needed to take my trailer to a shop about 15 miles away. After hooking up I decided to not bother with connecting the Andersen for such a short trip. The trip over turned into a near white knuckle experience. Cross winds and semi traffic was blowing the trailer several times into some nasty sways. The bucking caused by the crappy highway surface conditions was very uncomfortable. After getting the work completed I hooked up including the Andersen this time. Same winds, semi traffic and road conditions. The rig was rock steady for the entire trip back. Lesson learned: Always use the Andersen system when towing. Over 7,500 miles and still a happy user.

Airtandem · 11-08-2013, 09:21 PM

I thought that the moderator (Kevin245) closed these threads.

Road Ruler · 11-09-2013, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

Cross winds and semi traffic was blowing the trailer several times into some nasty sways.

WOW, a big pick up towing a tiny aerodynamic Airstream and that kind of action was taking place. Yikes

**Kevin245** · 11-09-2013, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airtandem

I thought that the moderator (Kevin245) closed these threads.

We closed the Andersen user thread after it turned into a bash-fest while this thread remained open. This thread had been largely ignored of late, however be advised that should the same line of posting manifest itself here we will intercede as well. We (The Site Team) really prefer to let members control the direction and influence of any given thread as long as things maintain a degree of civility and stay within the requirements of the community rules.

Let's keep this on the level please.

On behalf of the site team,

Kevin245

Rich of SCal · 11-09-2013, 11:34 AM

I was surprised to see the other thread closed, but I understand why. I hope this one stays civil enough to remain open. I had gotten a lot of valuable info from these threads. It is because of that info that I have the Andersen system and have also upgraded to the Quickbite coupler. Granted I have a small trailer, towed with a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited (i.e. 4 door). This combination solves a lot of problems for me and now I tow confidently with a rock solid ride.

I have towed in high winds and up fairly steep climbs. The hitch/coupler combo has worked flawlessly and much better than my original Reese dual cam setup. Not bashing the Reese at all. A fine system, but too heavy and overkill for my needs.

Here's hoping we just include helpful info here for others who are seeking answers. I like to check for new developments on the equipment I use.

Thanks all,
Rich

AWCHIEF · 11-09-2013, 06:13 PM

I recently received a new owners manual from Andersen. If you are an early user of the Andersen system ask them to send you the new manual. It contains a number of changes and set up recommendations. If you not yet a user but are considering becoming one it contains much useful information and will answer many of your questions. Happy Trails!

HowieE · 11-10-2013, 08:20 AM

The original Andersen Users Thread is currently closed but it is still available for reading. I suggest any that may want to research the Andersen question before buying may take a look.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ead-92131.html

Road Ruler · 11-10-2013, 09:38 AM

Sure, it would take one 4 or 5 days to read that 2403 page novel but better still just review the Adsn summary here in this thread, Post #6......

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...on-101220.html

AWCHIEF · 11-10-2013, 10:31 AM

Time is valuable. I think a better use of it would be to read the reviews and updates from actual users, both satisfied and those that found and reported legitimate issues. They are easy to pick out in the other thread. Happy Trails!

HowieE · 11-11-2013, 08:00 AM

[QUOTE=Road Ruler;1259312]Or you can view a quick summary here.......
The ANDSN is a light weight connection system which at first glance appears to be easy to set up.

This is an accurate statement if you accept the term Light Weigh to refer to the overall weight of the system and not to mean an inferior system. As for the hitchhike time it can take a little as 2 or 3 min. to hitch and less to unhitch.

Some folks have tried it and like it.

The number of those who like the system is significantly greater than those that have had an issue.There have been issues with some of the vehicles that are lightly sprung. In this case the Andersen can not transfer as much weight to the front axle as the bar type systems do. The Andersen system is ddressed to the greater number of currently used TVs,

One forum member also tried it and had problems setting it up to transfer weight. Since the beginning many have questioned whether it can transfer a satisfactory amount of weight to the front wheels. Some folks argue that because of the nature of some vehicle types a small amount of weight transfer is adequate. That raised more questions.
It was suggested it may "by design" be sketchy on slick roads. It was also suggested that if one of the chains broke the system would completely lose it's WD effect (safety?).

In the majority of situations currently in use the Andersen can transfer enought weight to return the front in to the original steering geometry, thus the same road contact weight as while not towing. The historical need to transfer addition weigth to the front axle of the TV was more of a need to get weight OFF the rear axle because many combinations exceeded the rear axle limit. As noted above most current TV no longer have that need. For those that are towing with lightly sprung TVs it is clear that the Andersen is not a choice but should not be noted as an overall limitation of the Andersen

There does seem to be an issue with securing the brackets on the trailer frame so they don't move but with some extra work there are solutions available (drilling holes, welding).

The original mounting system had the brackets mounted vertically to the trailer frame and secured top and bottom acroos the frame with bolts torqued to 175 ft lbs and a larger set set screw into the tariler frame about 1 in. from the bottom of the bracket. That set screw became a point of rotation and allowed movement between the bolts and the frame. This movement caused the chain angle, coming out of the brackets, to increase and cause a point of ware on the chains. The angle issue has been corrected by factory design. The movement issue on the frame has been addressed by users in several different ways. I put through 2 bolts through the brackets and the frame. Some have welded the brackets in place. Some have added an additional set screw near the top of the brackets. In any case this is not a current consideration.

One poster had concerns about the stresses that would be put on the trailer coupler. There are reports of a possible safety issues with parts wearing inside of the coupler. In one case the coupler disengaged from the ball. Some users have gone to the trouble of replacing the trailer's coupler. Note hours of work and $'s. Another user has installed a safety chain over the coupler to prevent it from coming off the ball.

Several, myself included, have seen the Atwood coupler user by Airstream fail and have replaced the coupe with stronger units. The Andersen system applies force to the couple differently that traditional couplers. This change in the forces within the coupler causes the pawl of the Atwood to be forced upwards and shears the fin that locks the pawl in place to fail. Andersen now has a statement in there literature to not use their system with an Atwood coupler. Those seeing this as a limitation should not consider the Andersen. However those interested in the advantages of the Andersen should consider the overall project to include the changing of the coupler.

It was reported that another possible limitation for some vehicles is that the ANDSN has no angle adjustment on the head like most other WDH's.

There is no need for the head angle adjustment common to many bar type WD systems. The Andersen is not a bar type system and has no more need for that adjustment than a diesel engine has for spark plugs. The argument is a red herring.

There is also a question about the built in sway control, how well it operates, and how long it will last (parts replacement?).

Andersen comes with a lifetime guarantee. To date I know of 2 user that have had the sway control material flow from excessive load on it. In both cases the Andersen was being used on lightly sprung TVs. In one case system was being tested by a competitor and in the other the material was replaced by Andersen but the owner choise not to continue using the system. I bought it.

One comment was.... "Andersen support is great about some things and not so about about others. Very poor customer service IMHO." Others have reported good customer service from Andersen.

The view of overall customer support for any product will vary from customer to customer. However as noted above Andersen has quickly responder to several suggestions from user and changed there manual and construction accordingly.

The ANDSN is new to the fray and many say it has not been out long enough to show long term reliability or performance. Note to date (as far as we know) no unbiased professional testing has been performed to compare it to other connection system designs.

There are those who choose not to buy the first year of a car design and historicaly this has been a good choice in many cases. Then there are those who have chosen to stand in line for the IPhone. Each has to decide which group they are in.

QUOTE]

srpuywa · 11-11-2013, 12:47 PM

Did they solve the issue with the hitch coupler?

HowieE · 11-11-2013, 12:55 PM

The coupling problem is not an Andersen problem that can solve. The problem is the Atwood coupler that Airstream uses will fail with an Andersen type system. Several Airstreamers have solved the problem by installing a different coupler

dmand001 · 11-15-2013, 04:17 PM

I have now towed over 10,000 miles w/ the Andersen Hitch. I had a 74, 31 ft Sovereign Airstream and logged-in about 2000 miles equipped w/ the stock coupler, Marvel and installed the Andersen w/ only the set-screws as per manual except for the inside brackets wherein I flipped the brackets that the set-screws were on the top part of the frame opposing the bottom set-screws of the outside brackets. Did send pics on the original thread if you care to look. I did trade-in my 31 footer for a 25' Flying Cloud this year Sept, installed a Quick bite coupler. I made minor changes such as replacing those quick-link chain type provided by the QB welder as it was too long exposing 11 threads beyond the ratchet socket limits provided by Andersen w/ those shorter screw pin anchor shackle links identical to the one mounted on the triangular plate thus have 4 of those extensions, 2 per side and it has worked well. Now my ideal thread count is 6. My TV is a 2000, Dodge, Durango SUV equipped w/ the complete tow package, 5.9L, 4W, and a dream Airstream towing machine. It's less than the GCWR if you're into that school but it's performed so well for me. GAWR is over 1700 lbs for the rear so plenty there. I still have the original shocks of over 150k miles which is long overdue for replacement but I prefer the little rear squat as long as I meet the Andersen 1" or lower front fender requirement. I' m about 1/2" lower in the rear than supposedly ideal but I find the settings optimal for my towing. Never towed w/ a pick-up truck but not sure that it compares to my Durango SUV or SUV's in general. Another thread comparing trucks to suv's for Airstream towing if not already in place is good to have. As to shocks, I think that it matters what your TV shocks have for your utilization. Suppose if you have those adjustable one's then you can dial-in your preferences. I may change my shocks to the heavy duty and not the medium old softy one's because the marriage of the Andersen and Airstreaming inspired me to travel more extensively. Places like Mexico, Canada, Alaska, South America after going to all the contiguous US is now possible. Do not need to rehash the benefits of the Andersen albeit being true, just visit their Web page. I experimented w/ my Andersen Hitch going from California to the East Coast, finding that sweet spot, That oneness feeling of TV/TT. I have driven it w/ the bushings compressed over the 1/4" compression removing some of the rear squat from soft shocks and I must say that it felt very good though compressing the bushings beyond 1/4" takes some effort and it widens beyond the big washers, not a pretty site but yet an excellent ride. Keeping the bushing compression 1/4" or less is optimal. Tried different thread counts and found 6 complete exposed threads gave me that smooth, quiet, oneness feel possible w/ an Andersen. For the first time my wife even drove which is such a big deal in this household tho for less than 50 miles. Perhaps sharing the wheel in the future is possible, wishful thinking, I know, surely on an emergency situation it's a good thing. I'm sure you good drivers know this and luckily I've learned my lesson unscathed from momentary dosing off while driving. I was nursing a cold and had taken some medication and had pushed driving longer than I should have and so dosed off, hit those noisy rumble road strips to the right shoulder that startled me awake. Happened on the very first leg of our X-country trip, near the Donner summit, Ca headed to Reno, NV. Instinctively over-steered jerking the steering wheel left then right trying to get back w/in my lane and all I could think about is thank goodness for the Andersen. I'm not saying that the other bar type hitches might not have behaved as well, I don't know that, from an empirical perspective, I know that the Andersen did for me. I immediately apologized to my wife, stopped asap, rested, got some coffee, learned my lesson. I felt so guilty, a stupid idiot and vowed not to push driving duration more than is safe and be aware of the side effects of medication that one takes. Needless to say the rest of the trip went so well under all sorts of conditions. Hitches, couplers are no longer a concern for me but the joy of Airstreaming is, us we all share here. Thus give another Airstreamer a headlight wink or wave as you see them while driving or a hi in RV parks as they're a special breed, notwithstanding of their hitches.

AWCHIEF · 12-20-2013, 06:46 AM

Yesterday I swapped my F150 for a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4X4 5.7 Hemi. It has the air suspension. What are the procedures for properly setting up a weight distribution system with this suspension. I would prefer to continue to use my current Andersen (if it is even needed). My thinking is that even if it is not needed for weight distribution that I might be able to use the system for sway control.

slowmover · 12-20-2013, 06:49 AM

Look to threads by idroba

AWCHIEF · 12-20-2013, 06:57 AM

Slow, thank you. I just discovered his threads and am currently working my way thru them. Looks like lots of good info within them.

ROBERTSUNRUS · 12-20-2013, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

Yesterday I swapped my F150 for a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4X4 5.7 Hemi. It has the air suspension. What are the procedures for properly setting up a weight distribution system with this suspension. I would prefer to continue to use my current Andersen (if it is even needed). My thinking is that even if it is not needed for weight distribution that I might be able to use the system for sway control.

Hi, my Lincoln has rear air suspension and my owner's manual tells how to do it. It's a bit tricky, but you will get used to it. For example: do not open the rear doors because this causes the rear air suspension to drop slightly.

idroba · 12-20-2013, 09:57 PM

I will repeat the Air Suspension information for the Grand Cherokee. Mine is a 2012 Overland. I suspect this information will also work for the newer ones, and for the half ton RAM trucks which are now using Air Suspension. I caution readers who are not familiar with this system that it is NOT the same as other air suspension systems you may have seen in the past. It is not a helper system, but replaces the springs and shocks totally and is integrated fully with the other computer driven systems in the GC.

First: find a dead level spot big enough for your TV and Trailer. Unhook the trailer, move the TV away a few feet. The dead level spot is critical as the Air Suspension system automatically tries to "look pretty" by adjusting the individual wheels to compensate for varying irregularity in the level of the parking spot. So, you need a level parking spot to start with. Let the rig idle for a few minutes allowing it to set it's level.

Second: Turn the Air Suspension system off (on the GC, press the up and down buttons at the same time for 10 seconds). Measure the fender heights above the ground and record. Back up to the trailer, raise the tongue and re couple, carefully dropping the tongue on the ball

Third: measure the fender well drop, then use your weight distribution hitch system to bring the fender measurements back to the original measurements, or as close as possible.

Forth: Drive away. The Air Suspension will automatically turn back on by itself in a short time.

Now, I would also advise checking your system by doing the same thing at a scale, only this time you can do before and after weights on all axels. I actually started by doing this at a closed Idaho Department of Transportation scale, which they leave on all the time and you can play to your heart's content. Once I was comfortable with the weights, I found that you can also rely on the fender measurement system to work quite well, that is the settings work out about the same, at least with my rig.

The Air Suspension system on the GC will hold the rear end of the rig high and level all by itself, even without a WD hitch system, but trust me, you will easily overload your rear axle and under load the front, if you don't follow the above system and don't use a WD hitch. It will look level and hold level, but that does not mean it is right and that the axels are not overloaded in the rear and underloaded in the front. Scale measurements will show that to be true.

I hope that helps some more.

For the record, I have done this with both an old round bar WD hitch setup and the Andersen. I use the Andersen now almost exclusively with excellent results. My tongue weights are in the 700# range on both of my 20' trailers.

AWCHIEF · 12-20-2013, 09:58 PM

Bob, thanks but I got it sorted out. Trick is to set vehicle at Normal height. Turn off system by depressing both the up and down buttons at the same time for 10 seconds. Hook up and adjust as normal. System will automatically turn it self back on when vehicle reaches 15 mph. I tried the the procedure this afternoon and it works perfectly. Time will tell but it looks like the Grand Cherokee in combination with the Andersen WD System going to be another excellent TV for my little Bambi II.

Idroba, we were posting at the same time. thank you for info. I read many of your previous post on the subject today. It made the setup painless.

AWCHIEF · 01-04-2014, 04:53 PM

Well darn! While attempting to set up my new Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Andersen I discovered that I am going to have to order a new 8 inch drop bar. I did not realize that the Jeep receiver set up was 4 inches higher than on the Ford. I was hoping to be able to use the Andersen for my trip to Canopener next week. Going to give Andersen a call bright and early and see about getting a new drop bar. I doubt that they can get one on time to use for the trip. No worries, I have a standard bar with 8 inch drop that I can use until the Andersen bar is deliveredI took a couple of mile drive towing the trailer around. It did not feel too bad but I would feel better with a bit of WD and sway control.