Air Ride Hitches

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Airstreamer67

Rednax, I'm having a problem following your line of thought(s) in your last post. Let me give it a shot:

1. I am not violating any known requirement or guideline or whatever from the manufacturer of my truck, my trailer or my hitch. What is your question or point regarding those again?

2. My question to Andy was whether a weight-distribution hitch is needed for all tow vehicles with a 28-foot Airstream. Andy has said that the hitch manufacturers are calling for weight-transfer bars that are too stiff for heavy tow vehicles, and recommends much lighter ones. I wondered what are the parameters for such a recommendation. EG, should an F250 get the same weight-transfer bars as a dually F350, F450, F550? If not, then what should they get? In other words, how much weight should be transferred to the front axles for the various trucks for proper highway safety? Is there any case that such a weight-transfer is not necessary or desirable? If this has already been answered by Andy, please cite it.

Thanks.

You are violating simple laws of Physics.

You are ignoring the safety and comfort of your passengers.

Dually's, F-250, F-350, F-450, F-550, Peterbilts, are all a waste of money, a waste of comfort, and a gross mis-use of tow vehicles, when towing any size Airstream trailer, ever built.

If your logic is correct, then we must ignore Physics.

Trucks, contrary to some opinions, are not the "MAGIC" tow vehicle, but are more of a "complete overkill" for the purpose intended.

Each owner can do as they wish, however right or wrong.

We still make pencils with erasers, to take care of the "OOPS", that included RV owners who insist on ignoring safety, Physics, and the well being of their passengers, who usually are their family.

Not a single hitch manufacturer has "YET" to investigate "ANY" loss of control accidents when specifically towing an Airstream.

I, other the other hand, have over 1000 (one thousand) of them to my credentials.

When any owner, or hitch manufacturer has the loss of control experience and knowledge that I do, then and only then will I have any form of disussion with them. It's to me, sort of useless to have a discussion about hitching, when that person has "ZERO" statistics to go by. Many opinions, absolutley, facts, "not a one."

To say my trailer doesnt sway, is hogwash. Ride in the very rear end of your trailer, whoever you may be, at 60 to 70 MPH. Then and only then can you make that statement.

All to many RV owners, love to challenge and dispute facts, regardless of the subject. Again, using opinions, don't hold water, when you lost control, and hurt someone, when your in front of a judge, because your accused of improper operation, and/or rigging.

Articles are in motion, that I have written, that will satisfy many owners. However, there will be the select few, that will still dispute facts and Physics.

For those that will learn, I personally thank you for your patience.

For those that will still dispute, please carry tons of liability insurance, and "NO" I will not carry on any form of hashing the facts back and forth on these Forums.

Some travel trailer owners, just don't get it, and never will.

I am not trying to be harsh with anyone, but I am being "frank and up front."

Talk is cheap.

Opinions are just that, too.

Physics is facts, not cooked up garbage.

Interesting enough, most people that dispute Physics, never took the course.

I am very proud to be a licensed pilot with over 1200 hours of pilot in command. That group of people, rarely, if ever, render opinions. Yes we all love to "hanger fly", where we discuss the reality of flight, and pass on our experiences, both good and not so good.

The National Transportation Safety Bureau, publishes a very few paged report, every other month, that spells out aircraft accidents, and the causes. The vast majority, is "pilot error or judgement".

If we did the same for travel trailers accidents, we would have a phone book sized editions, but our FEDS are not interested in teaching Physics.

Not a single RV manufacturer, or hitch manufacturer, has ever made the attempt to determine what is "safe rigging," and "why."

Before I depart this good earth, I for one, will publish information, that will take their "oops" attitudes to task.

That includes some of the "nice salemen" that continue to be nice to the buyer, so that when they total their trailers, they will come back to the same clown, that ill informed them to start with.

Andy

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Thanks Randy.

One other question I had for folks that have these or are in the know. I see a class 5 that seems to be what I would be looking at, but then I saw the class 6 with a shock on it to limit what I think is the bounce. Any thoughts on the shock version vs the non-shock version?

On a lighter note....any takers to the question above?

[Happycampers]

I got my Air Safe hitch this week and installed it. We are in a park until the first of the year but I just had to get it out and try it out. So we tore down and took a little trip on some of the roughest roads we could find here in Florida within a short distance from the park. It works great, no hard bounces or jerks, I wanted to take it on a concrete road so I could see what it is like on expansion joints but I feel sure it will work great. I took some pictures of the setup with the weight bars hooked up as there seems to be a lot of questions about this. Silvertwinkie, I haven't tried the class 6 but I did talk to a guy that uses them on his trailers, he has some consession trailers and said he used them because his trailers are heavy and he doesn't use weight distrubution bars but does use friction sway bars. I don't see why you would need one for a Airstream. Our trailer tongue weight is 800 lbs. and I had 50 lbs. in the air bag. I think the max is 100 lbs.

[Gene]

Happy, thanks for the photos. Now I have some idea what people are arguing about. It's probably the perspective, but the tongue doesn't look level.

After reading the opinions, facts and factoids, all strongly held, all sincerely believed, I have no idea who's right. I think the discussion went from air bags to air hitches. It got so esoteric at times, it was way beyond me.

For what it's worth, a long time ago, we bought a truck camper and the manufacturer installed air bags. One blew out in a few days. I discovered it was installed incorrectly. They expressed me new ones and I installed both properly. I eventually returned the camper since it was poorly made and the air bags too. What does this prove? Probably check what people do. There are now air springs made by Timbrem which appear to be more less solid rubber and take some weight off the springs. Interesting. I don't know how good they are, whether they smooth the ride and whether they add to payload, take stresses off the suspension, or otherwise affect the truck's performance positively or negatively.

I'm trying to learn from all this, but I'm not learning from this discussion.

Gene

[Happycampers]

Hi Gene, The trailer is level, the pictures were taken after I came back to the park and the front of the truck is a little lower than the back. I wish you were closer and you could try this one out. The nearest we will be to CO is when we go the the Vintage Rally in San Antonio TX in Feb. As I find out more about the hitch I will let you know.

Marvin

[Road Ruler]

The obvious concern I see with this hitch is the additional distance the ball is from the back bumper. This really increases the wheel base to overhang ratio which is a big negative.

[Happycampers]

Road Ruler, The Air Safe hitch moves the ball back another 9 inches, the trailer tongue weight of my trailer is 800 lbs. I don't know how much that converts to but it doesn't seem like it would be that much.

Marvin

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander

I also remember the question about using it with the Hensley and I don't think that is possible

How would the Air Safe Hitch compare with using a MOR/ryde Suspension Kit to lessen the impact of a stiff ride on an Airstream?
The MOR/ryde is more expensive at $1271 installed, but would allow use of a Hensley, and would soften the truck's ride even when not towing.

[Pahaska]

I put it the hitch on last weekend just before leaving for the Region 9 Rally. I have about 250 miles on towing on it now and, so far, I am very pleased with the investment.

I towed through a lot of construction and it was nice not feeling the impact of the trailer over the rough stuff.

The hitch moves the trailer back nearly a foot. Since I have some tight turning at the storage yard and at the cul-de-sac where I live, the tighter turning radius is very welcome.

There was not enough room between the hitch box and the receiver to put the bracket for my mud flaps. Fortunately, there were holes in the side of the hitch box at a perfect location to mount the arms that support the flaps.

I set the ball height at home by airing up the bag until the bars were level. Then, at the storage yard, I hooked up and aired up the bag to get the bars level under load.

It does require jacking the trailer quite high to get the WD bar chains attached because the hitch raises to the top as soon as the weight comes off the ball. I'm thinking of using a wedge of some sort to prevent the hitch from raising during hitching so that I don't have to jack the trailer so high. The wedge would go between the top of the box and the limit bar above it.

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

The obvious concern I see with this hitch is the additional distance the ball is from the back bumper. This really increases the wheel base to overhang ratio which is a big negative.

I can't tell the difference. My bar setting did not require a change. There was no effect when towing except that I could turn a bit tighter.

[Happycampers]

That sounds like a good idea John to put a block of wood in to stop the hitch ball from coming up, it dose cause a lot of extra work for the jack but I have noticed that mine doesn't set after I put the bars on until I start moving the trailer and hit a little bump. I have towed 5,250 miles and I really like the hitch.

Marvin

[Silvertwinkie]

Thanks for the info and for reviving this thread.

Anyone know about how well weight distribution works with these? I was talking with someone on this forum off line and the question came up how can weight distribution work if the hitch is not static? It was a question I had not considered, but after thinking about it, really was a great question.

Any thoughts on this? Anyone that has this setup, have you weighed the trailer and found that the unit still does transfer weight? I do see some significant flex on the bars, but is it transferring any weight to the front of the tow vehicle or is it pushing it back to the trailer axles?

I asked the company (High End Markets--the rep for the hitch) that sells these and this is what I got. I have not heard an engineering answer as of yet:

The hitch has been tested with weight distribution systems and the system has allowed the weight distribution system to function had designed. We have many system sold that use the weight distribution system. I will see if I can get a better engineering answers and forward to you.

So that is what I have so far...any additional comment or input on this question would be appreciated.

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

---Anyone know about how well weight distribution works with these? I was talking with someone on this forum off line and the question came up how can weight distribution work if the hitch is not static? ---

A weight distribution hitch accomplishes load transfer by applying a pitch-axis torque to the hitch receiver. The amount of torque is equal to the vertical load applied to the rear ends of the WD bars multiplied by their effective length.

The Air Safe Hitch has an upper and lower horizontal link on each side. These links transfer longitudinal forces between the front and rear portions of the hitch. The air bag transfers vertical forces.

When the WD bars apply a pitch-axis torque to the rear portion of the hitch, the upper link pushes forward on the top of the front portion and the lower link pulls rearward on the bottom of the front portion. The magnitude of these "push-pull" forces multiplied by the distance between the links results in a torque being applied to the front portion of the hitch and the rear of the tow vehicle.

Ron

[Happycampers]

Silvertwinkie, I tried to throw the trailer in to a sway after I installed my hitch and the Reese Dual Cam brought it back straight again. I am making some changes to my trailer which will change the tongue weight a bit and will be readjusting the hitch in a few weeks and I will let you know and maybe I can take some pics too.

Marvin

[Pahaska]

I have found no detectable difference in the weight distribution and the action of the bars. Except when undergoing vertical acceleration when going over a bump, the ball mount may as well be welded in place. I have not had to change a thing in the hookup.

[Silvertwinkie]

That is great to hear. I really would love to have a soft ride for my Airstream, and of course less transmission of the shock to and from the connection. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, but I may bite the bullet and go for this now that the folks in the know have spoken to my last main concern about this.

Got my Centramatics yesterday.

[nunya001]

Wow - just read this whole thread again. I am no more clear than before, but since you guys are well versed let me ask your opinion. I am towing a '69 31 foot Sovereign with a 2001 f350 crew, long bed 4x4. I think I might be beating up my trailer and I REALLY don't want to do that. What do you think my best option is?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by nunya001

Wow - just read this whole thread again. I am no more clear than before, but since you guys are well versed let me ask your opinion. I am towing a '69 31 foot Sovereign with a 2001 f350 crew, long bed 4x4. I think I might be beating up my trailer and I REALLY don't want to do that. What do you think my best option is?

There are 3 things that contribute to damaging the trailer.

1. An excessive rated tow vehicle.

2. Excessive rated torsion bars.

3. Bad axles.

You already have # 1.

What brand hitch and what is the rating of the bars?

What is the condition of the axles?

The following will help you check them out.

The Dura-Torque Axle

Andy

[Silvertwinkie]

Ok, ok, I am getting pretty close here, just a few more question to the Air Hitch experts.....

I have the Enkay rock tamer mud flaps:

Enkay MudFlaps | Home

I am going to get the Class 6 but looking at any of the higher capacity receiver hitches, I see an 8.5" shaft, one that I think is 6", then one that is 12.5". Which one do you think I need if I would still like to use my Enkay rock/mud flaps?

I assume I can take my Reese head(with ball) and simply unbolt it from my Reese draw bar and bolt it with the existing bolts to the drop/draw bar I pick up from Air Safe?

Also assuming I just buy the drop down bar (guessing 4" would suffice with a Suburban--right?) and the bolts to mount the drop bar to the Air Safe platform come with the drop bar/bracket?

[Pahaska]

I have the rock tamers. I discarded the center casting that goes on the bar, leaving just the curved arms to support the flaps. There were already holes in the side of the hitch that were perfect location to reattach the curved arms. All it took were some 5/8" bolts, nuts, washers, and lock washers from Tractor Supply. The result looks great and works perfectly. I'll post a photo shortly.

I later sold the center casting at a flea market to a guy who wants to make his own mud flaps.