Yay! finally another inline 6 turbo diesel

[slowmover]

This is an on-road tow vehicle. The owners here will sell it before it wears out. ANY tow vehicle.

The drivetrain quit having meaning a dozen or more years ago. Same with brakes.

What’s left is what always mattered the most: Steering. Handling.

On a pickup that means the lower COG 2WD. Where, with independent front suspension plus rack & pinion steering you have the superior pickup for this application.

Which in the first place REQUIRED a pickup for solo miles. Farmer, rancher, contractor. The bed is always loaded, solo or camping. Those things that CANNOT be carried in the cab or the trailer.

Without that there is no need for a pickup. Not with these little trailers. As it only increases the likelihood of a loss-of-control accident. Of a rollover due to a tripping hazard. Solo or towing.

Where a turbodiesel is to be desired is in a vehicle with fully independent suspension. And near non-existent rear overhang. Weight & wheelbase commensurate with stability (pickups go right past what works best).

Sure, a straight six has advantages. But it’s disadvantages outweigh that per length, height & weight. Packaging.

Will a V6 diesel last 350k? Doesn’t matter. The shape & weight are more important.

Where does the FE economy advantage of diesel as fuel reduce long-term ownership costs versus buy-in price? Probably at around 200k miles. That’s what it was with my pre-emissions (high mpg) Cummins versus an identically spec’d gas motor version (comparison notes with another owner. Same use & driving style).

The assumption was that while the gasser still worked, it was getting down on compression.

But how many keep the purchased-new vehicle for ten years? Or 200k? A few outliers who don’t change this isn’t valid.

Unless diesel returns to being one-third cheaper per gallon (where now it’s one-third higher) the latest gas motors with 8 & 10 speed automatics are the winners. In any “economy” test.

Changing the fuel doesn’t equate to what matters.

Today’s “worst” motor, but with the best suspension design & steering is the better tow vehicle. The better vehicle for solo.

Solo use is the denominating factor.

.

[Isuzusweet]

????

[tevake]

We have quite a range of user perspectives here. From new truck buyers who will trade every 3 to 5 years. To guys looking to repower 35 year old plus motorhomes with DIY friendly low tech diesels slaveged from other vehicles.

The modern very efficient high tech diesel is allmost bewildering to the DIY guys with all of the systems and ancillaries. And significant buy in price.

The thought of transplanting and fitting up a different engine into an older vehicle is equally out of the range of most users.

I just thought I'd point out the variety of perspectives we have in our group here. Help the conversation flow better.

Cheers Richard

[switz]

In the 70s, I watched a chap with very deep pockets have the International Harvester truck dealer install a small Cummins V8 diesel into his one ton IH pickup. The huge battery was under the floor of the bed of the truck. The transmission was changed as well. Not sure a dime would have fallen to the floor as it was a very snug fit in the engine compartment.

I was happy with the IH workhorse 345 cu in V8 gas in my ¾ ton IH 4x4.. Those days, the cost of gasoline was never a consideration except for the larger trucks.

I remember a IH 549 Cu In gasoline motor in a tri-axle 2070 IH truck with a big milk cooler box on board. It had dual shift knobs for a five speed in front of a four speed manual. They were pleased it got 2.5 mpg......

[biere]

As has been mentioned not all engines are made the same. I have a gasser straight 6 ford in a 1995 f150 for my rusty old beater truck. It has low end torque and I like that. Something else I like is that nice big crankshaft helps maintain momentum so while it is geared a bit like an airplane it does alright as a pickemup truck.


Today's diesels have to meet emissions and I consider the half tons to be more for "hyper miling" than for towing for work. Now I consider towing an airstream to not really be work as long as you size things correctly.


I had an 07 grand cherokee with a v6 diesel in it from mercedes. Just had a particulate filter in the exhaust, no exhaust fluid required for 07 diesels. I had just come out of a great big ol diesel dodge with the cummin in it.


Now east tn does not really get much winter but we get a few nights where the temps are 15 degrees or a tad closer to zero. I could not plug my diesel in at work.


That cummins did not like cold mornings. Its grid heater was working, it was just a much larger engine.


That little mercedes diesel hardly cared about the cold.



Something to keep in mind with the straight 6 and was already mentioned is that they are already balanced decently cause of the straight 6 concept and firing order. With today's manufacturers wanting to skip a cylinder now and then it might be worth considering that part of why old is new again is because of this stuff.


I also figure today's tiny v6 engines weigh less than my monster 300 straight 6 in the ford, so less metal and weight helps make a v6 have a reason to live.


I hope the general motors diesel does well. Does not matter if I want one or not.


The more success vehicles have the more the competition will compete.


I recently shopped leftover v6 gas stuff for a work vehicle and trip vehicle. No towing. Maybe a little hauling. It is amazing to me what a v6 and 8 to 10 gears in the automatic can accomplish.

[Overstreet]

So how come this title is shown on the Air Forums email with a picture of a radial engine?
" Yay! finally another inline 6 turbo diesel. "

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by switz

In the 70s, I watched a chap with very deep pockets have the International Harvester truck dealer install a small Cummins V8 diesel into his one ton IH pickup. The huge battery was under the floor of the bed of the truck. The transmission was changed as well. Not sure a dime would have fallen to the floor as it was a very snug fit in the engine compartment.

I was happy with the IH workhorse 345 cu in V8 gas in my ¾ ton IH 4x4.. Those days, the cost of gasoline was never a consideration except for the larger trucks.

I remember a IH 549 Cu In gasoline motor in a tri-axle 2070 IH truck with a big milk cooler box on board. It had dual shift knobs for a five speed in front of a four speed manual. They were pleased it got 2.5 mpg......

We got 4 mpg with the 549 , 5 x 3....sqdd’s and a 40’ freuhauf flat bed....,42,000 # of bailed alfalfa..on edge...premiums gas...

[KWN306]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Probably one of the best construction pickup trucks ever made was the Ford 300 straight 6 cylinder gas engine with the HD 4 speed manual transmission. It's only defect was the engine mounts. The engine had so much torque, it tore them in half. Had to replace them often until NAPA developed a better one. That engine in both F150-F350 was hard to beat. Not a speed demon, but a monster work horse.

I totally agree with that statement. I wish Ford would go back and make that engine again.

[bhayden]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Inline diesels have another design advantage over Vs. The tall block allows for a longer stroke, which is advantageous for a diesel in particular. It is not as big of an advantage with modern computer controlled fuel injection and turbo control, but it does allow for more torque.

Another advantage is that "upright" engines tend to last longer because the cylinder isn't laying on it's side. A Vee or boxer engine wears the bore and piston more on the bottom. The only thing keeping the piston "centered" is the rings.


An inline just lasts longer, be it four, six or an old Buick Straight Eight. That said, The "packaging" trade off makes the naturally balanced V8 configuration another great option. Likewise, the naturally balanced boxer 4 also has merit in the packaging department.


That said, most engines today far outlast the rest of the vehicle.

[Jeremiwvu]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Ford is still number 1 because the majority of contractors use Fords, F150-F450 with various engines including the Ford diesels.

Only partly true, most who do use Ford are large firms, Ford has better fleet discounts, Chevy and dodge don’t have to, people actually buy them because they work.

My family runs a commercial roofing company which has been in business for over 100 years, I could argue that what some of the roofers do to trucks should and might actually be illegal.

They have about 20 vehicles in the fleet and 0 purchased with a ford emblem since mid 80’s repair and maintence cost too much, and too many things break when used hard.

[VernDiesel]

I'm interested in this truck for the MPG and towing MPG for moderate 1/2 ton appropriate loads. Also for long days towing comfort and diesel longevity. We transport AS other TTs and boats for the Mfgs to dealerships nationwide. There is plenty of half ton appropriate TTs (to 8k) that I don't need to get an HD. Currently I use a tuned with turbo brake Ram lol econodiesel 490,000 miles. Single biggest expense is fuel. It uses about 20 percent less fuel than the 6.7 & 6.6 in our company. Well with my typical 6-7.5k load kept to 65. Faster and more weight and the margin thins as it gets past its comfort zone.

Transporters and hot shots do the big miles. I've seen old 7.3s & 5.9s with a million miles and couple 6.7 Cummins even a newer 6.6 Duramax and I'm sure one day I'll see a newer 6.7 ford with a million. Come to think of it I've seen high mile 6.0s not that it was a cost effective endeavor with the "bullet proofing" and rebuild. Also heard of some bullet proofed ones that proved not to be. Only ever read of one gas pick-up a Toyota make it a million. (on the internet) Said to be used as a parts runner in the oil fields getting pipe fittings etc no real loading. On a side note I get that if & when you have a major repair or rebuild that diesel parts cost more but the higher cost to work and maintain a diesel over a gasser seems to be a falsehood. Thats without even factoring that most gassers are in the boneyard long before diesels.

The low tow rating of the new GM seems odd even my 4 door ED is rated to tow 8,800. And many know until the 19 ED arrives that they have a compromised cooling system. Not that they have to be crazy high like the Fords. IMO if you are buying a truck to tow a TT that will weigh more than 8k you would be better served by an HD anyway. With 465 TQ from a modest tow tune my ED has enough to get a load moving easily especially with 8 gears but it could be faster and use more than the 270 HP on a long Interstate climb. Often it only climbs at 55 so I'm happy to see that the Chevy 3.0 diesel starts out with 282 HP. I was surprised to see this as a Vee usually makes more HP and an inline 6 normally does better with more and lower rpm torque.

Pappy if you liked the smooth but slow & under powered straight 6 gasser in ye ole Fords you would really like this. Better power better mileage and likely even longevity all three. Wait it doesn't have a blue oval on it so you can't see it.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by KWN306

I totally agree with that statement. I wish Ford would go back and make that engine again.

My friend had one ..in the 1980’s.....driving across South Dakota, with a plastic LTL 9000 ford truck hood in the back....the wind was blowing as normal...45 mph across the state...if he slowed down he would have gotten a ticket...another time he pulled his 26’ fifth wheel from Billings,Mt to Butte, Mt. ....about 225 miles...it took him all day...yep that was a wonderful engine...and I was a Ford guy back then with the F250 and a 400 then a 460...8 mpg with the trailer...Lol...

[Dave-Nancy]

When I was even more naive than now, I purchased a 1980s full-size Ford Bronco with an in-line 6 cylinder engine. Besides 4-wheeling on coastal dunes, we pulled our 17-foot box trailer with it, through the Cascades and everywhere Oregon. Utilzing the equalizing hitch, even with the short wheel base, it was an amazing workhorse for towing. I traded it for a Jeep Grand Wagoner V-8. I would have given anything to not have made that stupid trade. Should have never sold that straight 6er. D

[jcl]

Years back I put lots of miles on Ford trucks with the 300 cid six. Fantastic truck engine. We an F150 4x4, and F250 4x4 with boom and winch for towing and recovery work both on and off road, as well as an F100 and an E350 Club Wagon with the same engine in the family.

The F250 towed many times its weight. The same 300 cid six was used in airport tugs, towing planes much heavier than anything discussed here.

The HD version of the engine had different manifolds and was used up through the F500/F600/LN600. That engine could work, and it was incredibly durable.

[Isuzusweet]

Okay, okay, enough of the Ford inline six fan boy club...we get it; and remember in one of my posts including Ford in the mix.......

...but this thread is about the GM inline six turbo diesel; an inline six that no domestic automotive manufacturer has been willing to produce in a very long time, (Cummins doesn't count because it's not an automotive manufacturer).

I'm rejoicing that someone big has had the conjoins to do it; but I'm praying that GM doesn't fuff it up....

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

...this thread is about the GM inline six turbo diesel; an inline six that no domestic automotive manufacturer has been willing to produce in a very long time, (Cummins doesn't count because it's not an automotive manufacturer).

The 300 cid discussion was about an inline six designed and built for the automotive market. Seems on point, although not about a diesel. Yes, trucks are part of the automotive industry, generally defined as pertaining to roadgoing vehicles, as contrasted with off road equipment. Automotive isn’t restricted to automobiles.

By that common definition, Cummins is definitely an automotive manufacturer, at least for a segment of their product line. Cat, in comparison, was in both automotive and industrial markets, and departed the automotive space some years back. When I worked on product development for class 8 trucks, we considered that market to be automotive, partly due to emissions regulations, but also due to the nature of the supply chains and manufacturing approach.

For small diesels (relative to other Cat product, the industry I worked in) some of the nicest engines we sold and serviced were the Isuzu products. With GM and Isuzu parting ways, it will be interesting to see if the global GM products being introduced now compare well to their Isuzu competition.

A side note: inline sixes are great. I really enjoy my BMW inline sixes. But it is worth noting that V12s blow them away. And a V16 can be sweet too. Best engine sound ever: a V12 with a 300 mm bore, generating approx 4400 hp at rated load, being block loaded in witness tests for a 3000 kw get set from cold start (all relative, since it was preheated and not actually cold). We could get it to 100% load in seconds from the emergency start signal. It passed.

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

My friend had one ..in the 1980’s.....driving across South Dakota, with a plastic LTL 9000 ford truck hood in the back....the wind was blowing as normal...45 mph across the state...if he slowed down he would have gotten a ticket...another time he pulled his 26’ fifth wheel from Billings,Mt to Butte, Mt. ....about 225 miles...it took him all day...yep that was a wonderful engine...and I was a Ford guy back then with the F250 and a 400 then a 460...8 mpg with the trailer...Lol...

Yup, had a Ford 3/4 460 pulled a 72 33" AS 8 mpg all day long. It was a good truck in its day.


Best regards and safe travels

[bweybright]

Remember folks, you have to be able to stop what you get rolling, especially with a trailer behind you.
"The U.S. government is investigating more than 100 complaints of poor brake performance on 2.7 million General Motors big pickups and SUVs.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says a brake vacuum pump can deteriorate, causing increased braking effort and longer stopping distances.
The agency has 111 consumer complaints including nine crashes and two injuries.
The investigation covers 2014 through 2016 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups. Also involved are Chevrolet Suburban and Tahoe, the GMC Yukon and Cadillac Escalade SUVs."

[Isuzusweet]

So much for buying a GM product.....In 2008 when the goverment of Canada and Ontario helped bail out GM out of bankruptcy with billions of Canadian dollars, the bailout was contingent that GM's workforce would never go below 16,000 workers.......GM is down to 8,700 today; and now another 2,800 good jobs gone.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...a-plant-report

Not so cheers
Sidekick Tony

We should borrow a page from Trump's playbook and tariff GM products entering Canada.

[Dansboatwork]

Any of you gearheads now what adaptor they used with the 6db1 and alison trans