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Old 11-17-2018, 04:39 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by pappy19 View Post
I work on cross country pipeline projects and there is no worse conditions for a truck. Many of the pipeline welders drive Dodge with the Cummins engine, but they will all agree that the front ends, frames and body/interiors are crap. The early Cummins had big problems with the injector pumps and if that engine got even close to getting hot, it was a disastrous. The welders immediately welded an extra steel plate on the frame between the cab and the bed to keep it from bending. The early manual transmissions were crap and so we're the automatic transmissions and still have major issues. So, even if you look at the basic design of the Cummins 6 cylinder diesel, it's the rest of the product one must consider, especially now.
They do seem to rust but so does everything else up here. And oil field work tears up Fords and Chevys too. All the HD trucks have their issues and many are abused and not maintained. My son works as a mechanic for an energy company that drives mostly gas F350s and I can’t believe some of the stuff these guys do to trucks. Yep, he replaced a frame on a Ram that was bent in half but it was overloaded beyond belief. They all are. I bought the Dodge for the engine. There is no match for an inline six. Period. The 460hp Powerstroke was tempting but I went on the mechanic’s advise this time.

Fact is the Laramie interior is built by the same folks that make Ford and Chevy interiors and they are all very nice these days. They all have a few quirks too.

Hopefully Chevy puts that inline six in something like my Trailblazer, with a real frame and four wheel drive. I’m gonna need one if I ever wear out my 2008, which is at 180,000 now and runs like new. I’m putting on about 50,000 miles a year so it might only last 4 or 5 more years.
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:50 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, a six is a six is a six. Doesn't really matter whether it is in-line, Vee, or flat apposed. This is marketing and the only reason that GM went to an in-line six was to get/steal some Cummins customers.
No, it’s not. 2nd year engineering school class was about inherently balanced engines. Or you can googl it lol
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Old 11-17-2018, 06:07 AM   #63
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The only reason ford sells so many trucks is because they have to keep replacing them....
Oooooh! You just made someones naughty list.

Nice point though.

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Old 11-17-2018, 06:23 AM   #64
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Inline diesels have another design advantage over Vs. The tall block allows for a longer stroke, which is advantageous for a diesel in particular. It is not as big of an advantage with modern computer controlled fuel injection and turbo control, but it does allow for more torque.
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Old 11-17-2018, 06:58 AM   #65
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Smartstream, the 3.4L was actually designed by Onan before Cummins came along. Same design in the 3, 4, and 6 cyl. The 6t was Ford Q1 rated and sold for buses in South America. UPS loved them in their trucks along with the postal service using the 4 cyl in the jeeps. Cummins took over and scrapped the whole program cutting up most of the manufacturing equipment sending it to the scrap yards.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:45 AM   #66
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My 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI has a 3.0L V6 turbo diesel now with about 184,000 miles on it. The numbers are 221 HP and 398 foot pounds of torque 1400 to 2800 rpm. At that time, that was more torque than the 5.6L V8 gasoline option for that car.

Due the age of the car, there is no regeneration or DEF fluid equipment on the motor.

We tow our 6,000 pound actual fully loaded weight 23D at 55 mph and see 16.5+ mpg on the highways. We can maintain 55 up hill dropping back to 4th gear (of seven) and 3,000 rpm. The 6% grade descent into Salt River Canyon (posted is 35 mph) is done in 2nd gear and the engine back pressure holds the speed with no brake application necessary.

Of interest is the 7,200 pound tow rating that could preclude Airstreams 25' or longer since the 25' series have GVW of 7,300 pounds....
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:14 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Inline diesels have another design advantage over Vs. The tall block allows for a longer stroke, which is advantageous for a diesel in particular. It is not as big of an advantage with modern computer controlled fuel injection and turbo control, but it does allow for more torque.
Exactly; good point.

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Old 11-17-2018, 09:58 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ALUMINUMINUM View Post
Went to a big party where I knew no one. Eventually spot a guy across the patio as alone and un-engaged as I. Sidled over to him, discovered he was chief engine design/engineer at FORD.

I asked “What's the best cylinder configuration”

Without hesitation, He replied “I-6”

I said “1-5-3-6-2-4”

We talked engines all night.

BINGO.........................


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Old 11-17-2018, 10:40 AM   #69
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Smartstream, the 3.4L was actually designed by Onan before Cummins came along. Same design in the 3, 4, and 6 cyl. The 6t was Ford Q1 rated and sold for buses in South America. UPS loved them in their trucks along with the postal service using the 4 cyl in the jeeps. Cummins took over and scrapped the whole program cutting up most of the manufacturing equipment sending it to the scrap yards.
True they were designed and built before Cummins and Onan merged. I wasn't there but because Cummins built the engine I have to believe they had a hand in the engineering. Mine came out of a UPS truck so I know they used them. I can't speak about the postal service but I know Jeep used a Renault 4 cyl turbo diesel. I believe it was 2.4 L and rated at 86 hp. I bought one to put in my 1938 Ford cab over engine truck but before I got around to it I came across the Cummins so it was used. The Renault is still in the back corner of my shop. I believe the little Cummins was produced for only 8 or 10 years and production ended somewhere back in the mid 80's. I'm still amazed how quiet the little Cummins is compared to it's stable mates.

If you want to talk about a really tuff little engine look at the International DT466. A little big for a pick up but still a great engine.
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:41 AM   #70
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The engine alone doesn't necessarily reflect the toughness of a truck. Driving most or all on paved roads with little or no off road situations, isn't a true test. That's why I bring up the pipeline construction situations because it is 90% off road in the worst conditions. Frames twist, front ends fail, transmissions screw up, and interiors fall apart. That's life on a pipeline project. Ford has proven to have a product that stands up to the worst conditions and their sales show it.
My son in law...is a union pipeline welder......he used to drive fords.....after 2 6 liters he went to ram with the cummins...and stayed with them...no problems...you couldn’t sell him another ford..
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:38 AM   #71
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Thaw new Chevy is a big improvement over the last style but that GMC is just ugly.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:54 AM   #72
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This is getting to be as much entertainment as a "hitch thread"!! Sure glad that we all are not the same. I would hate to have to drive a brown Ford regular cab, diesel, with an Anderson hitch, pulling a 22' Airstream.. Choices are great!! In my mind, what I have is the best!! LOL!!!
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:56 AM   #73
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The sad reality of today is that the cost of purchasing/maintaining a brand new diesel in smaller towing class pickups generally negates any savings you may make over buying a gas powered truck.

What Izusu have have based their new engine on will be the best telling factor of whether it's any good or not. If it happens to be based on something like the 4cyl engines they put in Australian vehicles such as the Holden Colorado, I wouldn't be getting too excited.
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Old 11-18-2018, 05:22 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, a six is a six is a six. Doesn't really matter whether it is in-line, Vee, or flat apposed. This is marketing and the only reason that GM went to an in-line six was to get/steal some Cummins customers.
Wrong.....how many main bearings in a 6 inline?....how many in a v6...? A 6 is not a six....you never see any V6’s in the big trucks...the last was a V6 71 Detroit...late 1960’s....and the in-line doesn’t need a internal balancing shaft..
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Old 11-18-2018, 05:31 PM   #75
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The sad reality of today is that the cost of purchasing/maintaining a brand new diesel in smaller towing class pickups generally negates any savings you may make over buying a gas powered truck.
I'm praying that this engine changes that sad reality. If GM is smart they'll lower the cost of initial purchase, keep the maintenance parts reasonable and build it right in the first place.

Cheers
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:54 PM   #76
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Yay! finally another inline 6 turbo diesel

A couple of years ago, me and a buddy were sitting in a grocery store parking lot in no-where Wyoming. He has a Tundra, I have a Dodge diesel. The wives were 'shopping' and were were, um, consuming our purchase of beer. The conversation turned to whose truck was better. Yeah, it could turn ugly...
After two or three...minutes (smile) we looked around the parking lot. Not a single Toyota, Chevy or Ford. Every working truck was a Ram diesel.
I still have photos on my phone of him getting his truck flat bed towed from deer camp last year. It's priceless.
In all honesty,both are really great trucks compared to my '72 Ford 300 cid 3 speed on the column.
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Old 11-18-2018, 09:16 PM   #77
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Wrong, wrong.

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Originally Posted by tjdonahoe View Post
Wrong.....how many main bearings in a 6 inline?....how many in a v6...? A 6 is not a six....you never see any V6’s in the big trucks...the last was a V6 71 Detroit...late 1960’s....and the in-line doesn’t need a internal balancing shaft..
Hi, Not all inline sixes have, or had, seven main bearings; Many only had four. V-sixes have four main bearings just like inline sixes, they have one main bearing on each side of a connecting rod throw of the crankshaft. Also not all V-sixes have counter balance shafts. These are mostly used on V-sixes that are built in 90 degree blocks, rather than a proper 60 degree block. The Radial six only has two main bearings; Does that make it a bad engine? No!
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Old 11-19-2018, 01:21 AM   #78
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Hi, Not all inline sixes have, or had, seven main bearings; Many only had four. V-sixes have four main bearings just like inline sixes, they have one main bearing on each side of a connecting rod throw of the crankshaft. Also not all V-sixes have counter balance shafts. These are mostly used on V-sixes that are built in 90 degree blocks, rather than a proper 60 degree block. The Radial six only has two main bearings; Does that make it a bad engine? No!
Diesels have seven.
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Old 11-19-2018, 01:37 AM   #79
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But the frame, front end, transmission, injector pump, and body desinigrated before. Lol.

Pap
Not if I owned it. I don’t beat the hell out of my stuff on dirt roads or race it to prove anything. I’m not 16 any more. I’ve had leather seats redone for a small tear, stay off dirt roads, and replace minor items if they break or wear so I guess I never see some of the “quality problems” everyone else complains about. Someone came from California to Michigan to buy my 7 year old Ford with 125,000 miles on it. My neighbor’s Toyota, same age, leaves pieces in the driveway every week.

Oil fields, dirt roads, blah blah blah. When I pay $60-70k for something I don’t beat it up.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:17 AM   #80
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This is an on-road tow vehicle. The owners here will sell it before it wears out. ANY tow vehicle.

The drivetrain quit having meaning a dozen or more years ago. Same with brakes.

What’s left is what always mattered the most: Steering. Handling.

On a pickup that means the lower COG 2WD. Where, with independent front suspension plus rack & pinion steering you have the superior pickup for this application.

Which in the first place REQUIRED a pickup for solo miles. Farmer, rancher, contractor. The bed is always loaded, solo or camping. Those things that CANNOT be carried in the cab or the trailer.

Without that there is no need for a pickup. Not with these little trailers. As it only increases the likelihood of a loss-of-control accident. Of a rollover due to a tripping hazard. Solo or towing.

Where a turbodiesel is to be desired is in a vehicle with fully independent suspension. And near non-existent rear overhang. Weight & wheelbase commensurate with stability (pickups go right past what works best).

Sure, a straight six has advantages. But it’s disadvantages outweigh that per length, height & weight. Packaging.

Will a V6 diesel last 350k? Doesn’t matter. The shape & weight are more important.

Where does the FE economy advantage of diesel as fuel reduce long-term ownership costs versus buy-in price? Probably at around 200k miles. That’s what it was with my pre-emissions (high mpg) Cummins versus an identically spec’d gas motor version (comparison notes with another owner. Same use & driving style).

The assumption was that while the gasser still worked, it was getting down on compression.

But how many keep the purchased-new vehicle for ten years? Or 200k? A few outliers who don’t change this isn’t valid.

Unless diesel returns to being one-third cheaper per gallon (where now it’s one-third higher) the latest gas motors with 8 & 10 speed automatics are the winners. In any “economy” test.

Changing the fuel doesn’t equate to what matters.

Today’s “worst” motor, but with the best suspension design & steering is the better tow vehicle. The better vehicle for solo.

Solo use is the denominating factor.

.
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