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Old 11-16-2018, 07:18 PM   #41
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Okay, now you too can go to your room with no dessert tonight for fanning the fire as well.
Remember the golden rule of badges...only I(insert your person here) am right because of my opinion and experience. And unless you agree with me the rest of you just don't know what is right.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:18 PM   #42
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Wow..a lot of info from someone who runs an outdated V10.....I have never had any problems with anything I have owned.......
I work on cross country pipeline projects and there is no worse conditions for a truck. Many of the pipeline welders drive Dodge with the Cummins engine, but they will all agree that the front ends, frames and body/interiors are crap. The early Cummins had big problems with the injector pumps and if that engine got even close to getting hot, it was a disastrous. The welders immediately welded an extra steel plate on the frame between the cab and the bed to keep it from bending. The early manual transmissions were crap and so we're the automatic transmissions and still have major issues. So, even if you look at the basic design of the Cummins 6 cylinder diesel, it's the rest of the product one must consider, especially now.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:45 PM   #43
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Seeing how we are talking diesel I have a favorite story. About 25 to 30 years ago a good friend owned a Cal 31 sailboat that was about 25 years old. It was powered by a 4 cyl Westerbeke diesel. The little engine lived in the bilge under the cockpit and turned a V-drive. It ran like a top but the oil pan was rusting away. It would hold oil cold but would weep when you got the oil thinned out at operating temp. Old Westerbeke parts were about as plentiful as Airstream moho parts.

After much procrastination we pulled the little beast and took it home to try to figure out a cure. Once on the bench where we could look it over we noticed cast into the side of the block was about a 6" octagon with the letters MG in the middle. It turns out the boys at Westerbeke took a 1500 MG block and dropped on a high compression head with injectors. They swapped the distributor for an injection pump and called it a diesel. They derated it from about 70 hp on gas to about 45 hp on diesel and sold bunches of them to the marine industry.

Anyway we found a pan at local British shop, put lots of paint on it and stuffed it back in the bilge. The little beast was still running lot a top many years later when he sold the boat.

Diesel...the only way to go.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:53 PM   #44
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I work on cross country pipeline projects and there is no worse conditions for a truck. Many of the pipeline welders drive Dodge with the Cummins engine, but they will all agree that the front ends, frames and body/interiors are crap. The early Cummins had big problems with the injector pumps and if that engine got even close to getting hot, it was a disastrous. The welders immediately welded an extra steel plate on the frame between the cab and the bed to keep it from bending. The early manual transmissions were crap and so we're the automatic transmissions and still have major issues. So, even if you look at the basic design of the Cummins 6 cylinder diesel, it's the rest of the product one must consider, especially now.
Interesting, they feel the front end, frame, and cabs are crap but they still drive Dodge, not Ford or Chevy.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:57 PM   #45
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Many are now returning to Fords, since 2011, the Ford diesel has proven itself to be very dependable and they don't have to worry about the granny or frame breaking in the middle of nowhere.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:03 PM   #46
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Many are now returning to Fords, since 2011, the Ford diesel has proven itself to be very dependable and they don't have to worry about the granny or frame breaking in the middle of nowhere.
Somewhat true.....yes, my neighbour works for Hydro One that exclusively uses F250's, and they use to run diesels; but not anymore; only gas motors, as they had so many issues with Ford diesels.

We are discussing diesels here.

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Old 11-16-2018, 08:12 PM   #47
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Ford is still number 1 because the majority of contractors use Fords, F150-F450 with various engines including the Ford diesels.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:14 PM   #48
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Smartstream....the reason they drive what they do is maybe what the company buys. I drive for work and would never buy or drive the "stuff" they make us drive - but the company pays for the truck so I drive and what I am given even when not happy with it.
Do you drive for a living? Just curious if you can offer more insight into your semi antagonistic and accusatory statement.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:19 PM   #49
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Smartstream....the reason they drive what they do is maybe what the company buys. I drive for work and would never buy or drive the "stuff" they make us drive - but the company pays for the truck so I drive and what I am given even when not happy with it.
Do you drive for a living? Just curious if you can offer more insight into your semi antagonistic and accusatory statement.
I work cross country pipeline projects and the majority of the pipeline workers drive Fords and buy their own vehicles. Pipeline construction companies lease Fords, Chevy, and Dodge In that order, but the majority are Fords. Been that way for 40 years.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:46 PM   #50
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Pappy, I am there with you, not arguing. Just trying to interject some humor.
Sorry if I offended you.
My late father in law was an engine designer for Ford and often told me who he thought was ahead of them and why, then why they were better but US regulations kept them from looking as good as the comparison to European markets.
Just trying to keep it civil...but I will now disclose, the second generation 2.7 Ford is good. I have a first and have paid the price in repairs. I am planning to repower my 2011 with a second generation when it comes time. I have 195,000 miles on the engine for those wondering.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:54 PM   #51
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Is this I-6 built in house or by Isuzu? It's too bad that GM decided to end their relationship with Isuzu and now build the 6.6 Duramax in house. The Isuzu Duramax proved to be a very reliable powerplant.
GM created a “centre of excellence” for diesel design and development in Turin Italy, because at the time they were working with partners based there. No more partnership, but that centre does their global diesel design work. The manufacturing for this six cylinder product is in Flint Michigan.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:56 PM   #52
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Probably one of the best construction pickup trucks ever made was the Ford 300 straight 6 cylinder gas engine with the HD 4 speed manual transmission. It's only defect was the engine mounts. The engine had so much torque, it tore them in half. Had to replace them often until NAPA developed a better one. That engine in both F150-F350 was hard to beat. Not a speed demon, but a monster work horse.
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:55 PM   #53
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Smartstream....the reason they drive what they do is maybe what the company buys. I drive for work and would never buy or drive the "stuff" they make us drive - but the company pays for the truck so I drive and what I am given even when not happy with it.
Do you drive for a living? Just curious if you can offer more insight into your semi antagonistic and accusatory statement.
My statement wasn't meant to be antagonistic or accusatory. Some like Fords, some Like Chevys and some like Dodge, Cummins. I have owned all three and the odometer quit on my old Dodge several years ago at 235000 miles. It's still running strong.

I retired 20 years ago as a truck shop supervisor in one of the largest fire departments in the country. We had 86 mechanics maintaining a fleet of right at 1000 vehicles. While I was there our rescue ambulance fleet of about 100 rigs changed from 454 Chevy to 7.3 Fords. Our triple combination trucks ran Cummins with Spicer 6 speeds and the aerial ladder trucks ran Detroits with Allison. We were also one of the first departments to go from 2 cycle Detroits to the DDEC with World transmission. After I retired I ran the fleet of trash trucks for the Olympic Peninsula here in Washington. They were mostly International with a few Cats and Cummins thrown in. As you might guess all of these truck were driven very hard.

Since 1980 I have owned 4 Peugeot diesels, a Citroen diesel, a smart diesel and a VW dieselgate diesel. I still have all but the Peugeots. I also have 2 Airstream mohos, one Isuzu and one Cummins. I have two Peterbilts, a John Deere backhoe and a Perkins in my boat. I did drive dump truck for a couple of years, Kenworths, one Detroit and one Cummins. So yes I have played around diesels for a bit.


Every has their favorite brand and nobody is going to change any minds here but that doesn't mean we can't tease each other and have some fun.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:12 PM   #54
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Dude,....anyone who would own up to owning a Citroen....you are the man!!!! (After living in France and seeing some of the interesting things Citroen does).
That being a snarky remark I did like the diesel Renault Megane we drove while there.
But now we are probably deviating from the initial point of this thread.


And, a biggy and is that you back up your statements with obvious experience not just opinion. A weird phenomenon on this forum.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:29 PM   #55
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The engine alone doesn't necessarily reflect the toughness of a truck. Driving most or all on paved roads with little or no off road situations, isn't a true test. That's why I bring up the pipeline construction situations because it is 90% off road in the worst conditions. Frames twist, front ends fail, transmissions screw up, and interiors fall apart. That's life on a pipeline project. Ford has proven to have a product that stands up to the worst conditions and their sales show it.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:18 PM   #56
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The engine alone doesn't necessarily reflect the toughness of a truck. Driving most or all on paved roads with little or no off road situations, isn't a true test. That's why I bring up the pipeline construction situations because it is 90% off road in the worst conditions. Frames twist, front ends fail, transmissions screw up, and interiors fall apart. That's life on a pipeline project. Ford has proven to have a product that stands up to the worst conditions and their sales show it.
Well we are talking diesels here.

Just for kicks fire equipment is pretty much full throttle or max brakes all the time. They do take a beating. That being said they are very well maintained. Trash trucks on the other hand are really abused. The city trucks worked within the city limits, we did the rural county area. Around here they probably spend more time on private dirt roads then on pavement. They also stop and start several hundred times a day with the driver climbing in and out of the cab on each stop. The state allows a 6000 lb. overweight permit on trash trucks so they all run overweight and then there is the landfill. I never thought much about International trucks but after seeing them on a trash route I gained a lot of respect for them.


By the way bweybright I have an early 12 hp Citroen 2CV, that is really a fun little car to drive.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:38 PM   #57
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Inline, big deal.

Hi, a six is a six is a six. Doesn't really matter whether it is in-line, Vee, or flat apposed. This is marketing and the only reason that GM went to an in-line six was to get/steal some Cummins customers.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:57 PM   #58
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Come on Bob, you don't even like diesels.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:05 AM   #59
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The only reason ford sells so many trucks is because they have to keep replacing them....
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:26 AM   #60
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Come on Bob, you don't even like diesels.
Hi, so true.

I forgot the Radial Six engine. Although I like the odd number engines better.
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