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Old 08-13-2020, 11:57 PM   #1
KVT
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Which Truck for Safari 28 with S/O

First Time Post!
Many Thanks to All for the wonderful information.
Truly a great community!

Looking to buy a 2004 28 ft Safari with Side out.
Realistically, what is the a good Truck to Tow this Rig with efficently and Safely?

I have a tundra 2017 4x4 crew max, but willing to exchange this because I love the trailer.

Open to suggestions!

Thank you for your time

Kris
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:24 AM   #2
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Take 12% of the trailer GVWR and use that for tongue weight. Add accessories youíve added like topper, people, pets, and cargo weights for the truck. Add 10-20% for margin. That should be your TVís minimum payload. Your TVís towing capacity should at least equal the trailerís GVWR. That will give you 12% margin since 12% of GVWR will actually be carried by the TV as tongue weight. Add another 10% to get a larger margin if so inclined.

Then go get the rig weighed to be sure you are within all the axle limits.

That said, many folks tow even 30 foot trailers with V8 Tundras equipped with tow packages and love them, so yours may be good.

I tow a 9100# Classic 30 slide-out with a Ram 2500 diesel. It has just enough payload and more than adequate tow capacity.
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Old 08-14-2020, 05:47 AM   #3
KVT
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Thank you Al and Missy!

Great equation!

Tell me about the importance of the axel limits? I had not considered that before

Thank you

Kris
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Old 08-14-2020, 05:48 AM   #4
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Kenworth W900, 18 speed, power divider, MX13 dialed all the way up to max hp. Nothing less could possibly tow an airstream.
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:10 AM   #5
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As far as minimums go for handling stability they will strongly depend on the intended safe traveling speed. If you intend to travel around 60 mph Al's numbers are very good. If you intend to travel at typical US towing speeds of 65-70 mph you must use 15% tongue weight to ensure the base sway critical speed is a safe margin above 70 mph.
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:15 AM   #6
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Welcome Aboard👍

Include a 1000-1200lb tongue weight in your estimate for the trailer, with a loaded for camping weight of 7800-8000lb
Focus on tow vehicle,(TV),front and rear axle,(GAWR) and tire ratings. It should have light truck tires,(LT),E or D rated.
Inspect the hitch receiver rating, design and mounting.

Don't scrimp on a QUALITY weight distribution hitch with sway control.

Visit the CAT Scales to confirm all estimates. CAT how to



Disclaimer...we use a Hensley Arrow hitch.

Sweet Streams

Bob
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:21 AM   #7
KVT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Include a 1000-1200lb tongue weight in your estimate for the trailer, with a loaded for camping weight of 7800-8000lb
Focus on tow vehicle,(TV),front and rear axle,(GAWR) and tire ratings. It should have light truck tires,(LT),E or D rated.
Inspect the hitch receiver rating, design and mounting.

Don't scrimp on a QUALITY weight distribution hitch with sway control.

Disclaimer...we use a Hensley Arrow hitch.

Sweet Streams

Bob
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Thank you Bob..
Very good advice...
I agree the trailer is 6600, but you have to deal with actual camping weight...
I think my Tundra has to go

Here we go Mr. Diesel

Thank you again

Kris
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:22 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
As far as minimums go for handling stability they will strongly depend on the intended safe traveling speed. If you intend to travel around 60 mph Al's numbers are very good. If you intend to travel at typical US towing speeds of 65-70 mph you must use 15% tongue weight to ensure the base sway critical speed is a safe margin above 70 mph.
Very good points!
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:22 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by civeng99 View Post
Kenworth W900, 18 speed, power divider, MX13 dialed all the way up to max hp. Nothing less could possibly tow an airstream.
Thatís funny 😄 I
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KVT View Post
First Time Post!
Many Thanks to All for the wonderful information.
Truly a great community!

Looking to buy a 2004 28 ft Safari with Side out.
Realistically, what is the a good Truck to Tow this Rig with efficently and Safely?

I have a tundra 2017 4x4 crew max, but willing to exchange this because I love the trailer.

Open to suggestions!

Thank you for your time

Kris
IMO, a half ton truck of any kind will be right at, if not exceeding, its specified load limits towing that trailer. Trailers with slides have a heavier unloaded tongue weight than trailers that do not.

Educate yourself about the specified load limits of every component on both vehicles you are considering. DO THE MATH using these, then make your descision based on those calculations.

Loads limits of every item on both vehicles have to be considered. There are those maximum loads on the placards that are specific to each vehicle, which should be used if possible. In addition to the vehicle placard information, trailer loaded tongue weight, trailer's hitch coupler, hitch ball, ball mount, tow vehicle's hitch receiver, tires, axles, etc. etc. .... all have specified maximum load capacities. If any one of them fails, it might be life changing for all involved.
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Old 08-14-2020, 06:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KVT View Post
Thank you Al and Missy!

Great equation!

Tell me about the importance of the axel limits? I had not considered that before

Thank you

Kris
As Bob implied, tow vehicle axle limits are more relevant than payload when towing a trailer and carrying some cargo so watch them instead. Ideally you want to bring your tow vehicle axle weights up to 90-95% of max while keeping as much of the moveable cargo out of the trailer. This will give you best overall safety margins so long as you can bias the cargo weight forward or even with the tow vehicle center. This strategy also tends not to use payload as a consideration, and no wonder as payload primarily applies when not towing and generally addresses comfort and suspension travel considerations. When payload addresses a technical limit, the same limit is also better reflected in axle limits, towing limit and combined weight limits.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:40 AM   #12
KVT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Include a 1000-1200lb tongue weight in your estimate for the trailer, with a loaded for camping weight of 7800-8000lb
Focus on tow vehicle,(TV),front and rear axle,(GAWR) and tire ratings. It should have light truck tires,(LT),E or D rated.
Inspect the hitch receiver rating, design and mounting.

Don't scrimp on a QUALITY weight distribution hitch with sway control.

Visit the CAT Scales to confirm all estimates. CAT how to



Disclaimer...we use a Hensley Arrow hitch.

Sweet Streams

Bob
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For math purposes teach me about GAWR
For my tundra itís about 4100 On rear. Axel..
How do apply this to make a knowledgeable decision to this trailer?
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Old 08-14-2020, 09:09 AM   #13
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We tow a 27' Tommy Bahama with a 2019 Ford F250 Diesel using an Equalizer Anti Sway hitch....plenty of capacity which means stable & safe ride. This TV handles steep grades like there is no trailer!
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Old 08-14-2020, 09:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KVT View Post
For math purposes teach me about GAWR
For my tundra it’s about 4100 On rear. Axel..
How do apply this to make a knowledgeable decision to this trailer?
First you need to know the weight bearing on your truck's rear axle/tires without any additional cargo. To get this number either go weigh it at a scale or get information from someone who has the same vehicle.

For estimating:
Estimate weights of--the trailer tongue (10%min-15% max) of gross trailer weight, the weight of the hitching/sway control equipment (mine is 100+ lbs) , and any accessories or cargo you normally carry behind the rear axle (topper & bed mat on my truck~80lbs). The sum total weight of these added loads (cargo) behind the axle are forcing the rear of the tow vehicle downward it is at the same lifting with an equal force upward on the front portion of the tow vehicle because the rear axle is acting as a fulcrum. All of the weight of the cargo behind is added to the rear axle. Some portion of the weight removed from the front, a high percentage, is also add to the rear axle.

That's where weight distribution comes in. IMO >>> A portion of this load should be removed, transfered from the rear axle to both the front axle and the trailer's axles but that is a small fraction of the total. The goal is not the same on all vehicles. Do what your owner's manual says!
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Old 08-14-2020, 10:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KVT View Post
For math purposes teach me about GAWR
For my tundra itís about 4100 On rear. Axel..
How do apply this to make a knowledgeable decision to this trailer?
Brian, 'splain's it very well here..

A lot of folks talk incessantly about the capabilities of their tow vehicle....'it tows the Airstream like it's not even there", the LAST thing you want and it should NEVER be the goal.
You are much better off thinking of the tow vehicle and trailer as one unit, and always cognizant be of the abilities and limitations.👍
So 'sez the 10 digit enginere.🤓
Bob
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Old 08-14-2020, 10:42 AM   #16
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Slide-Out Society

KVT - Welcome aboard the forums! Great to have you as part of the group.

You've gotten some great responses to your question about a Tow Vehicle. Lot's of education and experience being shared.

For reference our Tow Vehicle is a 3/4 ton diesel and our trailer is a 30' Classic S/O. The gross weight on the trailer is 10k and the tongue is just over 1k. Do your research and pick whats right for your situation. Everyone is a little different.

Once you've got your Safari S/O on the "ball" so to speak, come on over and join us at the Slide-Out Society. A loose, no cost, no obligation, really informal group of AirStream Slide-Out Owners...S/OS for short. Chances are someone in the group can answer and help out with questions you may have on the S/O's.

Please join us on the S/OS thread at: https://www.airforums.com/forums/f36...159166-40.html

Best!

Tom - S/OS #025
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Old 08-14-2020, 11:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by KVT View Post
For math purposes teach me about GAWR
For my tundra itís about 4100 On rear. Axel..
How do apply this to make a knowledgeable decision to this trailer?
For estimating an upper practical limit You should figure you will add 500-900 lbs to the trailer and then use 15% tongue weight as that gives you the best combined stability. Then you should obtain the unladen rear axle weight or take the empty truck to the scales.

Subtract unladen weight, subtract 75% of the sum of the tongue weight and hitch weight. What is left will be available for cargo. Estimate where the center of gravity of the cargo will be relative to the wheel base. If it is half of the wheelbase, double the cargo value. forward of half, use a 2.2 multiplier, etc.

This will get you in the ballpark and give you a rough idea of what the Tundra can do max.
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Old 08-14-2020, 11:52 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by A W Warn View Post
First you need to know the weight bearing on your truck's rear axle/tires without any additional cargo. To get this number either go weigh it at a scale or get information from someone who has the same vehicle.

For estimating:
Estimate weights of--the trailer tongue (10%min-15% max) of gross trailer weight, the weight of the hitching/sway control equipment (mine is 100+ lbs) , and any accessories or cargo you normally carry behind the rear axle (topper & bed mat on my truck~80lbs). The sum total weight of these added loads (cargo) behind the axle are forcing the rear of the tow vehicle downward it is at the same lifting with an equal force upward on the front portion of the tow vehicle because the rear axle is acting as a fulcrum. All of the weight of the cargo behind is added to the rear axle. Some portion of the weight removed from the front, a high percentage, is also add to the rear axle.

That's where weight distribution comes in. IMO >>> A portion of this load should be removed, transfered from the rear axle to both the front axle and the trailer's axles but that is a small fraction of the total. The goal is not the same on all vehicles. Do what your owner's manual says!
I love this explanation
So with that logic
Say Iím about 1300 at the hitch
Obviously I havenít weighed the rear axel...
Whould there be a benefit to the Firestone air bags to change the fulcrum towards the front?

Kris
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:20 PM   #19
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Air suspension firms up (increases) the axle spring rates but does not shift weight or change the fulcrum or lever arms in any way. The benefit of airbags is to keep geometry aligned, improve suspension performance and travel and they can help with roll to some degree. They will only impact axle weight limit if low spring rate is the axle limitation.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:11 PM   #20
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KVT, we just joined the forum yesterday, seems appropriate that our first post is to a fellow NorCaler. We are looking to pick up a '17 30' International Signature in the next few days, waiting on the bank stuff. This will be our 4th RV, 3rd trailer and 1st Airstream. We tow with a RAM 2500 Diesel, and unless I had a trailer that weighed less than 5000#, I wouldn't mess with a 1/2 ton TV. I've done both. A big part is where we live. As you know, unless you go South down the valley, your going to be towing over the mountains. The Sierras, the Cascades, the Coastal range, Trinity Alps and so on. The diesel exhaust break built in to modern trucks is worth the price of admission. Especially on the way back down. The low end grunt of a diesel on the way up is very nice too. I know there are Tundra guys out there that swear by Tundras and wont drive anything but. And I've seen guys around here towing fully loaded #14k dump trailers with Tundras, its all they'll drive. In our case, after towing a 5500# trailer with a 7500# rated 1/2 ton, the 2500/250 just feels much safer and easier. Look forward to seeing your rig around town one day.
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