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Old 09-02-2017, 10:21 PM   #1
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Smile Which Truck for Classic

I am new to the forum so this is my first post. I hope I am doing it right. :-)
This will be our first serious towing rig. We plan to pick up a preowned Airstream & truck. At this point, we are looking at the 30’ Airstream Classic & we are trying to determine which truck to shoot for.

We are in the process of calculating the total weight (GVW) of the loaded trailer/truck & the net towing capacity required of the truck. In addition to the loaded trailer weight (GVW), I have included the weight of truck contents/cargo such as people, generators, loaded car top carriers, etc. in the total weight that will be towed by the truck. These weights are added to the GVW of the loaded trailer.
I have 4 questions:
1. Do I need to include the tongue weight in the total weight that will be towed by the truck or is that accounted for by the loaded (GVW) trailer weight?
2. Do I need to add the weight of a full tank of fuel when calculating the truck’s GVW or is that accounted for in the truck towing capacity spec? i.e., is the weight of the fuel added to the Curb Weight of the truck?
3. So as not to exceed the truck’s GVWR, do I also need to include the trailer tongue weight in the calculation of the truck’s GVW?
4. We would welcome any suggestions on the truck. If possible, we would like to avoid a diesel but since we live outside Denver & will be spending time in the Rockies, a diesel may be required.

Thank you for your feedback,
Royce
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:51 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by rollsroyce View Post
I am new to the forum so this is my first post. I hope I am doing it right. :-)
This will be our first serious towing rig. We plan to pick up a preowned Airstream & truck. At this point, we are looking at the 30’ Airstream Classic & we are trying to determine which truck to shoot for.

We are in the process of calculating the total weight (GVW) of the loaded trailer/truck & the net towing capacity required of the truck. In addition to the loaded trailer weight (GVW), I have included the weight of truck contents/cargo such as people, generators, loaded car top carriers, etc. in the total weight that will be towed by the truck. These weights are added to the GVW of the loaded trailer.
I have 4 questions:
1. Do I need to include the tongue weight in the total weight that will be towed by the truck or is that accounted for by the loaded (GVW) trailer weight?
2. Do I need to add the weight of a full tank of fuel when calculating the truck’s GVW or is that accounted for in the truck towing capacity spec? i.e., is the weight of the fuel added to the Curb Weight of the truck?
3. So as not to exceed the truck’s GVWR, do I also need to include the trailer tongue weight in the calculation of the truck’s GVW?
4. We would welcome any suggestions on the truck. If possible, we would like to avoid a diesel but since we live outside Denver & will be spending time in the Rockies, a diesel may be required.

Thank you for your feedback,
Royce
Welcome to the forum.
The GVWR of the trailer is the maximum weight of the entire trailer, tongue and all. The tongue weight would be included in the GVW of the truck, and would need to be taken into account for calculations of both tongue and payload.

Again, GVW is total weight, including everything. If your truck has a GVWR of 9000 pounds, that means the truck can't weigh more than that, including everything. Fuel, water, passengers, cargo, trailer tongue, hitch, everything.

If you are in Colorado, or planning on traveling through the Rockies while towing, you will likely need a diesel, though Ford offers a turbo gas engine in both their half ton and 3/4 ton models. The half ton turbo will likely have all the power you need to go up the hill, but you will probably appreciate the braking of the 3/4 ton coming back down the hill. This is something that you personally will need to study more, as choice of tow vehicle is an extremely personal preference.
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Old 09-03-2017, 05:07 AM   #3
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Welcome to the forum.
The GVWR of the trailer is the maximum weight of the entire trailer, tongue and all. The tongue weight would be included in the GVW of the truck, and would need to be taken into account for calculations of both tongue and payload.

Again, GVW is total weight, including everything. If your truck has a GVWR of 9000 pounds, that means the truck can't weigh more than that, including everything. Fuel, water, passengers, cargo, trailer tongue, hitch, everything.

If you are in Colorado, or planning on traveling through the Rockies while towing, you will likely need a diesel, though Ford offers a turbo gas engine in both their half ton and 3/4 ton models. The half ton turbo will likely have all the power you need to go up the hill, but you will probably appreciate the braking of the 3/4 ton coming back down the hill. This is something that you personally will need to study more, as choice of tow vehicle is an extremely personal preference.
Overlander, I am aware and have had the Ford F150 Gas Turbo (Ecoboost) but not aware they have put a Turbo V8 in a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser? And also don't recall and engine brake on our F150 Eco? When did Ford come out with the 3/4 ton gas Turbo?

Bud
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Old 09-03-2017, 05:15 AM   #4
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Overlander, I am aware and have had the Ford F150 Gas Turbo (Ecoboost) but not aware they have put a Turbo V8 in a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser? And also don't recall and engine brake on our F150 Eco? When did Ford come out with the 3/4 ton gas Turbo?

Bud
Oopsie. I wasn't supposed to say anything about that...
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:45 AM   #5
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The only reason I have a diesel is for the exhaust brake. I got tired of being pushed down long, winding grades and the NW mountains are not nearly as severe as what you have in the Rockies. Also, the additional payload in a 1-ton does not sacrifice ride quality (I can only speak for the F350) as the only difference from a 3/4-ton are 4" rear spring blocks and an extra rear leaf spring that does not come into play until the load demands it. You will find tons of facts and opinions on tow vehicles in the forums and as overlander63 states, TV choice is highly personal.

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Old 09-03-2017, 10:01 AM   #6
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Be very careful. First. The max payload includes all fluids but does not include people,stuff in backseat or bed of pickup. Tongue for the 30' classic is generally 10-12% of total trailer weight + weight of hitch, propane, and stuff you put up front in trailer. My 27FB classic and Hensley arrow and water and stuff has a tongue weight of 1200# (Cat Scale). I purchased a Ford super duty crew cab and made a big mistake. The Max payload was only 1900#. With 1200 tongue weight, 2 people 400# and generator, tools, emergency stuff + recreational stuff in truck I am overloaded by 500#s. The max payload is not clearly identified on my truck and by the time I researched it, it was too late. I am now looking for a stronger truck.

The Ford diesel is great if you can afford it. It is at least 2x what you need.

Just another issue with the f250. The 5000# receiver is not strong enough for the Hensley weight distribution. When I activate the WD the rear of the truck lowers as if being added with MORE weight. I think the hitch is actually bending under the truck and not transferring the weight to the front axle like it is supposed to.

Be careful what you buy and make sure your max payload is at least #2200 or more. Any less than that and you will be overloading the truck with the 30' classic.

Don't make the $70K mistake that I did.

HAPPY STREAMING
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:11 AM   #7
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I ordinarily just lurk in the background here soaking up knowledge but I thought I would let you know what I have for a tow vehicle.

I pull my '82 Airstream Excella 34' Triple Axle which weighs 7,100 pounds empty and I would estimate another 1,500 - 2,000 lbs contents when I'm towing it. I have a 2006 Ram 2500 with the 5.9 liter Cummins Turbo-Diesel. I tow it mainly on the South Texas flat land but have towed it across Tennessee from one end to the other which has some pretty steep mountains in the eastern end. I can honestly say that about the only way I would know I was towing anything would be to look in the mirror. It's that good. I can only imagine what a new one would be like but since mine only has 82,000 miles on it I won't know for quite a while.

Mac
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:16 AM   #8
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I being from Montana, I like the ram with 6.7 Cummings....factory exhaust brake, does it easy up and down the pass......
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:52 AM   #9
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Smile Tow vehicle

I've posted before. I've always been a believer in over doing it in a tow vehicle than being just adequate for your trailer. I use a Ram 3500 Heavy duty Turbo Diesel long bed to tow my 31' Sovereign. I don't know it's there. I operate extremely large aircraft, there is something to having great horse power and great braking ability with heavy loads. Just saying...
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Old 09-03-2017, 01:42 PM   #10
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The preference for a particular brand of truck runs deep in some folks and it is easy to get folks excited and start a verbal conflict. I will try to avoid that.
I will try to give you solid info on used trucks.
I would suggest you consider a 3/4 to 1 ton diesel truck to tow a 30 foot Classic.
I run a one ton myself.
The 1/2 ton rigs like the Ford F-150 are too small for your rig. The truck would have to work extremely hard to pull grades and would stress all the drive components to the maximum which will shorten the life of your truck. Can it pull the trailer? Yes, but with no margin for error or extra cargo. They are great for a 23 foot or less trailer but not so much for a 30 footer. Kinda like being a single mom. Can it be done? Yes, but it doesn't make it a good idea.
General Motors (chevy ) truck frames are coated with wax rather than painted with a rust inhibiting coating. If you live in a place where road salt during winter is frequently used you may share my concerns about the frame rusting.
The new Ford Diesel is excellent but if you are buying used, the 6.0 Diesel years approximately 2000 to 2008 have several design flaws that lead to expensive repairs unless you go to Bullet Proof Diesel in Mesa Arizona to have them corrected then you will have a very reliable truck.
Dodge Ram trucks use a coating on their frames but the frames and front ends are not as crash worthy as the Ford.
I witnesses this first hand when a Ford 3/4 ton and a Dodge 3/4 ton hit each other head on, each going 55 mph. The driver of the dodge was wearing his seatbelt and the airbag deployed. The Ford drove the dodge's engine through the firewall and kill the driver. The ford's driver lived. This convinced me that the Ford was a better choice for crash worthiness. The steel in the cab was stronger in the Ford .
On the plus side, The Dodge Ram Diesel engine is a beast and will be very reliable if properly maintained.
In reference to the Ford 6.0 Diesel . You can find a lot of these trucks out there for dirt cheap ($12,000 to $17,000) with around 150000 miles on them with a clean nice body and interior . However, unless you have the $10,000 to put into Bulletproofing the engine you are just buying a potential headache .
I hope this helps and good luck with your choice.
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:07 PM   #11
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When sizing a tow vehicle, don't forget to include any auxiliary tank and fuel weight if you have an extra tank. If so, I would use the weight of half the usable fuel. That would be the average of the extra load. Even though you are technically overloaded for half of the extra fuel, you are underloaded for the second half. Just my opinion. If the weight ratings are that close you may want to get a heavier duty TV.
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:16 PM   #12
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1 ton. I towed my Classic with a 3/4 and was not happy in mountains and downgrades.
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:37 PM   #13
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Hi

Well, there is only one possible answer to the basic question. It *must* be a white F-250 4x4 Platinum. That's all there is to it, end of story, no need to look further, no other options have any merit at all

You can get the job done with a 150 / 1500 size truck. You will not be able to toss two tons of gear into the trailer and another ton into the truck. With a 250 / 2500 size you will be able to toss this or that into here or there without a lot of worry (maybe not an additional 3 or 4 tons ...), If you go bigger than that, you are headed into gross overkill unless you have *big* toy needs.

All that said, there other options. Vans are quite able to tow trailers .... Four tons of gear takes up space ....

Bob
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:20 PM   #14
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[QUOTE= the 6.0 Diesel years approximately 2000 to 2008 have several design flaws that lead to expensive repairs unless you go to Bullet Proof Diesel in Mesa Arizona to have them corrected then you will have a very reliable truck.
m[/QUOTE]

There are others bullet proofing the 6L, among them Jason at Arizona Affordable Diesel in Tucson. I am sure there are others across the nation as well.
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:59 PM   #15
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There are others bullet proofing the 6L, among them Jason at Arizona Affordable Diesel in Tucson. I am sure there are others across the nation as well.


Thank you for the information. It is most helpful. I only knew about Bulletproof Deisel. Good to know there are other options out there.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:07 AM   #16
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Which Truck for Classic

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Hi

Well, there is only one possible answer to the basic question. It *must* be a white F-250 4x4 Platinum. That's all there is to it, end of story, no need to look further, no other options have any merit at all

You can get the job done with a 150 / 1500 size truck. You will not be able to toss two tons of gear into the trailer and another ton into the truck. With a 250 / 2500 size you will be able to toss this or that into here or there without a lot of worry (maybe not an additional 3 or 4 tons ...), If you go bigger than that, you are headed into gross overkill unless you have *big* toy needs.

All that said, there other options. Vans are quite able to tow trailers .... Four tons of gear takes up space ....

Bob


Bob, I noted a bit of sarcasm in your post.
Humor is good.
I believe the original post requested suggestions on pick up trucks not vans.
However in the interest of being helpful, I was looking for a van that had the necessary towing capacity and could not find any that could safely pull my 30 foot Classic over the Rockies .
Perhaps in your vast pool of automotive knowledge you can share which vans are currently rated to tow an 8,000 to 10,000 pound travel trailer?
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Old 09-04-2017, 05:31 AM   #17
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Bob, I noted a bit of sarcasm in your post.
Humor is good.
I believe the original post requested suggestions on pick up trucks not vans.
However in the interest of being helpful, I was looking for a van that had the necessary towing capacity and could not find any that could safely pull my 30 foot Classic over the Rockies .
Perhaps in your vast pool of automotive knowledge you can share which vans are currently rated to tow an 8,000 to 10,000 pound travel trailer?
GMC Savana is 10,000lbs
Nissan NV is 8,690lbs
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:36 AM   #18
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Royce,

I suggest restoring a 1955 (First series) 3/4 ton Chevy.

Royce
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:02 AM   #19
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GMC Savana is 10,000lbs
Nissan NV is 8,690lbs


Thank you very much. Great to have options
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:01 AM   #20
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There are others bullet proofing the 6L, among them Jason at Arizona Affordable Diesel in Tucson. I am sure there are others across the nation as well.
Look for a dodge or a ram...preferably a 6.7 cummins as they come with the 6 speed auto , and you won't have to rebuild or bullitt proof it......just drive it
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