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dmbcdn · 10-30-2003, 08:37 PM

What a site!!

I asked this on another area until I came accross this one, sorry about the semi double post.

We are 99% sure we are getting a 78 Excella 31' this weekend. The tow vehicles we have to choose from are:

'03 Ford Winstar

'03 Ford F150 Supercrew 4x4 with 5.4L

We would love to be able to tow with the Windstar because it has a VCR/TV for our 2 children and there would be room for the 2 dogs in the back. A local dealer told us the Windstar would be fine to tow with and have just finished hooking up their 200th Windstar recently. I asked if it was too much weight and they said no, if it is set up right. They offered to let me use a salesman's Windstar and tow a larger Airstream to show me how confident they were in their setups and in the Airstreams towablity.

I am leaning towards the pickup because it just seems like that trailer would overwhelm the van.

Can anyone offer advice or opinions?

Thank you

Don
dmbcdn@rogers.com

Fun-Lovin · 10-30-2003, 09:18 PM

The choice here is quite simple.
The F-150 will have the towing capacity to tow a 31' airstream.
It is unlikely that the winstar will be capable of towing it.

You can always add a camper shell to the F-150.

The 31' airstream will have a gross loaded weight of approx 7500# to 8000#.

Silvertwinkie · 10-31-2003, 06:07 AM

As I read the post, before I even looked, I had figured that you were from Canada.

There are folks in Canada that swear by pulling large RVs with underpowered cars, minivans, etc.........

I have to agree with Fun Loven. Out of the two possible choices, the only correct choice for what you are doing is the F-150.

Could the Windstar move the coach. Sure. Would I put my kids (if I had any) in it at 65 with that monster behind it? Not at all. The only plus is that the Windstar has a TV in it so that the kids would never see the impending doom that would befall them......

The F-150 every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Sorry to be so dramatic....

Eric

sander17 · 10-31-2003, 07:22 AM

Visualize yourself rolling down a steep hill towards a busy intersection with a non-working brake controller. You want BIG brakes, LOTS of rubber, and a strong frame. Always use a truck or big SUV with a heavy trailer.

My 2 cents worth.

qqq · 10-31-2003, 07:30 AM

It's easy & cheap to add a tv/vcr/dvd to the F150.
I would forget the minivan

Hart

Chas · 10-31-2003, 07:34 AM

Oh no, here we go again!

I can see this thread going wacko like the last, "Intrepid Tow Vehicle", anyone?? Seriously, I think there needs to be a towing forum added for the Canadian folks, or some kind of Airstream Forums Intraclub. They seem to be having good results with their choice of tow vehicles so I say more power to them.

I am actually quite jealous of them, wish I could get by with a Windstar or an Intrepid.

Chas

Chuck · 10-31-2003, 07:54 AM

Quote:

There are folks in Canada that swear by pulling large RVs with underpowered cars, minivans, etc.........

My theory is that one's attitude can change dramatically when the price of gasoline is $5/gallon.

Silvertwinkie · 10-31-2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuck

My theory is that one's attitude can change dramatically when the price of gasoline is $5/gallon.

Perhaps, that might make RVing not possible for some folks. I know that if gas went up to $5/gal and I was hell bent on still Airstreamn', then I would just have to pay the $5/gal for the gas guzzler knowing that the $5/gal was money well spent towards my own personal safety.

Gas prices around here were within a few pennies of $2.50 a gallon...what's another $50 a fillup once you break the $30 mark.....I know that I'd have an econobox and my bike handy for local trips where I wasn't towing.

Eric

rluhr · 10-31-2003, 08:17 PM

Poor dmbcdn, he didn't know what an issue he stepped into!

Those of us who have monitored this board for some time know which dealer in Canada he's talking about ... the same dealer that has outfitted over 500 GM front-wheel drive cars to tow RVs in the last decade.

dmbcdn, here's the dynamic you stepped into: on this forum (which is dominated by Americans), it is well-known that you must tow an Airstream with nothing less than a large American-made truck with V8. To do anything else will result in your immediate demise ...

Elsewhere, especially Canada, people are unaware of this, so they do just fine with Ford Winstars, other minivans, and even cars.

-- RL

j54mark · 10-31-2003, 09:21 PM

RL,

Don does not ask about towing just any trailer with his Winstar. He wants to tow a 31 foot Excella. It is entirely possible that your 17' Caravel could be towed by a Winstar, but he is asking about the biggest, heaviest trailer made in the 70's, and he wants to load it and his tow vehicle down with enough stuff for his two kids and two dogs.

Let's assume for the sake of arguement that the Winstar in question came with the factory towing package, and therefore has the 3500 lb. towing limit, rather than the stock 2,000lbs. We will also assume the 120" wheelbase is not going to be overwhelmed by such a long, heavy trailer - one that is over three times longer than the Winstar wheelbase. Let's further assume that the trailer brakes and controller will always fuction to maximum capacity and the Winstar will never need its little disks and meager drums to stop anything more than its own weight plus that of its occupants. Let us also assume that Don has no concern about the possible liability of towing a load that is, at a minimum, a ton-and-a half greater than the maximium allowed by the manufacturer.

If you will grant all those assumptions, then it will still be necessary for Don to negotiate a truckload bulk purchase rate on new transmissions as he will be burning them up as fast as he can put them in.

All this, and meanwhile he has a perfectly good F150 sitting in the drive!

Mark

thenewkid64 · 11-01-2003, 06:19 AM

Use the F150.

We origianlly had a 74 Overlander and towed it with a '94 5.0 L F150. It did fine and we had fun. We decided to upgrade to a 77 31 ft Soverign. The 5.0 would pull it but going up hills all I kept hearing in my head was "I think I can , I think I can". Stopping/turning/etc. was not an issue, I just could not get out of my own way sometimes. Long trips were not fun

I traded for a new '95 F150 with the 5.8? (351 CDI, 190 HP). It was so much more power that the hills were not an issue.

As I, and many others on the forum, have said before regarding towing wth an undersized tow vehicle:

Can you do it : Yes

Should you do it : NO

Not just because we all love our big trucks, but because we want to encourage safety, and for all to have a pleasant experience Airstreaming, not broke down or wrecked.

rluhr · 11-01-2003, 11:45 AM

You guys are arguing with the wrong guy. Talk to the Canadians who already tow with combinations like this.

My point is that they are obviously doing something that works, and it's in our best interests to figure out what. Simply slamming them out of hand isn't productive. Whether we think it "should" be done is not the issue -- they ARE doing it and they seem to be:

(a) having fun
(b) getting where they need to go
(c) arriving safely (I haven't heard of any flaming brake failures)
(d) having no unusual maintenance problems.

So, what are they doing right?

-- RL

PS: thenewkid64, can I assume that "190 hp" for the 5.8 liter engine was a typo? Many a V6 car outproduces that.

thenewkid64 · 11-01-2003, 03:32 PM

Typo,

The 95 5.8 had 240 HP @4000 RPM, 340FTLBS Torque at 3200 RPM.

But a 2001 Winstar 3.8L Horsepower: 200 @ 4900rpm, Torque: 240 @ 3600rpm

Just for camparison, I PERSONALLY would not want to try to tow an Excella with the winstar based on that comparision alone.

ipso_facto · 11-07-2003, 03:47 PM

All I can say is, don't be penny wise and pound foolish - I fall into that trap sometimes. Though luckily, not with towing vehicles.

overlander63 · 11-07-2003, 06:55 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dmbcdn
[B]What a site!!
We are 99% sure we are getting a 78 Excella 31' this weekend. The tow vehicles we have to choose from are:

'03 Ford Winstar
'03 Ford F150 Supercrew 4x4 with 5.4L

We would love to be able to tow with the Windstar because it has a VCR/TV for our 2 children and there would be room for the 2 dogs in the back. A local dealer told us the Windstar would be fine to tow with and have just finished hooking up their 200th Windstar recently. I asked if it was too much weight and they said no, if it is set up right. They offered to let me use a salesman's Windstar and tow a larger Airstream to show me how confident they were in their setups and in the Airstreams towablity.

I am leaning towards the pickup because it just seems like that trailer would overwhelm the van.

Can anyone offer advice or opinions?
Thank you

Don
Don, I have a trailer that is half the weight of yours, and half the length, and got very poor results towing with a 97 Ranger, with a 4.0, and a 5 speed transmission.
I traded for a Dakota with a large V8, and have had excellent results.
Problems I had with the Ranger:
1: on a windy day, the trailer seemed to drag the truck all over the road, swaying. (yes, I had sway control)
2: on rough road, the truck would "walk" back and forth over bumps, and the front end jump up and down. I think it is called "porpoising". Yes, I had load levelers.
3: very poor acceleration. I felt like I needed a calendar to clock my 0-60 times...not that I ever got to 60.
4: top speed was around 58mph, less with a headwind. The only way it would go faster was if I pushed the rig out of an airplane.
5: It always felt like the trailer was taking me where it wanted to go, not the other way 'round.
All this on tabletop-flat South Florida, imagine what it would be like in hill country.
This is a much smaller, lighter trailer than yours, and a truck built more for towing and carrying weight than your van is. And mine was supposed to be able to handle that weight.
Terry

rluhr · 11-07-2003, 08:15 PM

And argosy20's post (above) underscores a key point

Quote:

This is a much smaller, lighter trailer than yours, and a truck built more for towing and carrying weight than your van is. And mine was supposed to be able to handle that weight.

Although structurally built to tow loads greater than a minivan, argosy20's 1997 Ford Ranger was so aerodynamically inefficient that it used probably (a rough guess) about half its maximum 160 horsepower just pushing itself through the air.

Add any trailer 9 ft tall and 7.5-8.5 ft wide, and you can see why argosy20 had such a disappointing experience. Trucks often make up for their lousy aerodynamics with extra horsepower -- effectively hiding the problem. The '97 Ranger didn't have the horsepower, so it stunk. I wonder when the truck manufacturers are going to acknowledge that and start building trucks that take better advantage of aerodynamic design principles.

-- RL

overlander63 · 11-07-2003, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rluhr
And argosy20's post (above) underscores a key point

Although structurally built to tow loads greater than a minivan, argosy20's 1997 Ford Ranger was so aerodynamically inefficient that it used probably (a rough guess) about half its maximum 160 horsepower just pushing itself through the air.
Add any trailer 9 ft tall and 7.5-8.5 ft wide, and you can see why argosy20 had such a disappointing experience. Trucks often make up for their lousy aerodynamics with extra horsepower -- effectively hiding the problem. The '97 Ranger didn't have the horsepower, so it stunk. I wonder when the truck manufacturers are going to acknowledge that and start building trucks that take better advantage of aerodynamic design principles.
-- RL

A topper (cap) and a wind deflector would probably have helped, but I knew I would have been sending good money after bad, trying to make the Ranger work, and I was not in a mood at that point to invest another $1000 or so and find out it still didn't work.
The aerodynamics of my new truck make the Ranger look sleek, but it has the power to do what I need, although at a huge increase in fuel cost.
It is larger in every dimension, not by all that much, but 6" here, 3" there, 1000lbs more of weight, adds up to a much less nerve-wracking trip.
The point of my first post was, if my truck wouldn't cut it as a tow vehicle, what chance would a Windstar have? Windstar is nothing more than a Taurus with a minivan body, would you tow a Soveriegn with a Taurus?

Terry

Silvertwinkie · 11-08-2003, 08:53 AM

I think aerodynamics are only part of the reason......

thenewkid64 · 11-08-2003, 10:33 AM

If you check in the owners manuals of the 2 vehicles that Argosy20 has used I would be willing to bet that the trailer frontal area spec. is so small on the Ranger that anything more than a pop-up would be over it.

All of the trucks I have had for towing have had a max size on frontal trailer area. The Airstreams have always been under the max.

I also have towed the same Airstream trailer with and without a cap on the truck. It does make a difference in the level of effort that the truck exerted to go down the road. The cap made it easier.

Towing with a unibody................you so funny

ElliottBartlett · 11-11-2003, 12:56 PM

Don't think so much about going as about stopping!
Just like in the snow and Ice, 4-wheel drive can get you going toooo fast to stop. Similarly, given enough time and a downhill slope, a 4.0 engine can get you going too fast to stop when that light turns red down at the bottom or someone pulls out from a stop sign without looking.