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Old 07-18-2017, 04:23 AM   #141
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An editorial in today's New York Times on the speed at which electric vehicles are moving into the mainstream: https://nyti.ms/2uuhoEB
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:15 AM   #142
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Thanks. Here's a hot link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/o...he-planet.html
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:59 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by AstroBruce View Post
220,000 miles, 15 mpg, $3.00 per gal. That comes to $44,000 in fuel costs. I am really sorry I figured that out.

Bruce
I bring up or contribute to threads on FE with turbodiesel Dodge trucks on several sites. I spec'd my truck for best FE against work capability. And then learned to maximize that.

Your fuel cost over that distance was 20-cpm. Using the same figures off of records, mine is $14,000-lower. The average response is that it isn't important. It gets worse from there as that generation model in 4WD had problems my 2WD doesn't. In short, as 15 is the fleet average, I could have bought two at the same used price and operated them for close to their one.

"Job specification" is everything. It isn't that the lowest fuel burn wins (so much) as it is in evaluating fuel burn as Best Use Per Mile. Without offsetting IRS deductions, a one ton is quickly a burden, not an asset. A car with a cargo trailer can carry far more, for example.

As this is about tow vehicles, chose another, and find the fuel average difference. If I swapped to a Chrysler 300 Hemi, the solo average would be the same.

But initial price, finance charges, insurance, depreciation all have their place in a cents per mile calculation.

That's where the meat is. FE not nearly so much.

$44,000 fuel cost against what other dual purpose vehicle (is the question)?

.
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Old 07-21-2017, 08:28 AM   #144
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I just came here to say I've been drivin through some pretty rural country and these things are everywhere. I've been noticin them more cause of this thread. Even Marshal Matt Dillon's got some EV parking in the middle of Dodge City, Kansas!

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Old 07-21-2017, 09:29 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Let's not forget that big round hot thing up in the sky!
The Inanpah power plant in the Mohave desert caught fire due to misaligned mirrors. 173,500 mirrors. L.A. will not buy power from them. If you can't make reliable solar power in the Mohave Desert, are you ready to sign up in Seattle?
Never mind the 6,000 birds who were vaporized in the death ray.
https://www.wired.com/2016/05/huge-s...east-problems/
Oh, and by the way, when government subsities go away, the solar makers go bust.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/15/an...goes-bankrupt/

Quote:
Solar and wind power get 326 and 69 times more in subsidies than coal, oil, and natural gas, according to 2013 Department of Energy data collected by Forbes.
"Just the facts, ma'am."

Quote:
[ . . . which also creates wind indirectly, due to the global ocean and atmospheric heating and cooling cycles and circulations . . . ]
Wind? The growth industry is building wind turbines, not using wind. Way too many issues. Ever driven through a mega wind farm and wondered why 90% of the windmills are standing still?
Noise, bird kills, bat kills, flickering shadows, leaking oil, buried power leads, broken blades, there are towns that are literally torn apart because they leased land to the wind industry, now regret it.
http://fox4kc.com/2017/02/23/controv...-tv-reception/

I had a coworker who was big on solar. He pointed out how Germany was taking unused military bases and converting the land to solar. Gigantic solar farms. But even so Germany gets only 3% of their energy from solar.

Never mind why we are paying for 200 U.S. bases in Germany when evidently, Germany is saving money closing theirs. But that's another issue.

I live in a rather large city. I've never seen a plug for a EV.
Not that there aren't any, but if they're as mainstream as you say, then where are they?
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:04 AM   #146
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Then:
Turbine fire.
Wind farms get license from feds to kill eagles.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:17 AM   #147
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Quote:
I live in a rather large city. I've never seen a plug for a EV.
Not that there aren't any, but if they're as mainstream as you say, then where are they?
In the interest of full disclosure, I checked. There are some downtown, inside parking garages.
There's a "Fast charge" station near me, in the Dunkin' Donuts parking lot. It looks like you scan a credit card. I'll look at it in person.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:17 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Wind farms get license from feds to kill eagles.


Curious, do you have a source to substantiate that statement?
__________________
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Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:31 AM   #149
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I've not seen a post this littered with misinformation in a while, speaking of facts. So let's dissect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
The Inanpah power plant in the Mohave desert caught fire due to misaligned mirrors. 173,500 mirrors. L.A. will not buy power from them. If you can't make reliable solar power in the Mohave Desert, are you ready to sign up in Seattle?
Ivanpah, first. Second, this is not a solar PV plant, it's a CSP plant where they use mirrors to boil water and create steam to move a turbine. Now that PV prices have dropped drastically, most large scale solar installations are PV farms. CSP is old technology and is rarely adopted. Reliable solar exists on rooftops, in large scale farms, etc. You chose one small failure at one non representative plant and are trying to use it to represent the entire industry. I find that unfair, but I'm happy to hear why it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Oh, and by the way, when government subsities go away, the solar makers go bust.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/15/an...goes-bankrupt/
"Just the facts, ma'am."
Instead of quoting single instances from partisan leaning sources, let's look at data.

The World Economic Forum famously reported on the extent of grid parity in over 30 countries. Grid parity without subsidies is a true tipping point for solar - it's cheaper, and it's getting even cheaper still. Subsidies will rapidly phase out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Wind? The growth industry is building wind turbines, not using wind. Way too many issues. Ever driven through a mega wind farm and wondered why 90% of the windmills are standing still?
Noise, bird kills, bat kills, flickering shadows, leaking oil, buried power leads, broken blades, there are towns that are literally torn apart because they leased land to the wind industry, now regret it.[/URL]
23% of Texas's electricity production comes from wind. Texas is the 2nd most populous state with the 6th highest energy use per capita. Wind power supplied 5.55% of the US consumed energy in 2016.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
I had a coworker who was big on solar. He pointed out how Germany was taking unused military bases and converting the land to solar. Gigantic solar farms. But even so Germany gets only 3% of their energy from solar.
Um, no. 20.7% solar, 26.0% wind. Is there a source for your 3% number?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
I live in a rather large city. I've never seen a plug for a EV.
Not that there aren't any, but if they're as mainstream as you say, then where are they?
This is a take on the Fermi paradox, isn't it? I agree that EVs aren't extremely mainstream everywhere. Where I live, they're pretty mainstream, but globally they only represent about 1% of new vehicle sales. The good news is the growth of that number, which increased 38% in 2016 and is expected to increase again this year, especially with more affordable long range EVs coming to market.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:36 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Then:
Turbine fire.
Wind farms get license from feds to kill eagles.
Do I need to start posting photos of fires at fossil fuel plants? Can we agree they're vastly more likely to occur and be at larger scale than turbine fires?

Regarding birds, how many birds are killed by coal, oil, and natural gas plants? How many are killed by cats? US News took a look at that a while ago.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:38 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
In the interest of full disclosure, I checked. There are some downtown, inside parking garages.
There's a "Fast charge" station near me, in the Dunkin' Donuts parking lot. It looks like you scan a credit card. I'll look at it in person.
Thanks for that. There appear to be more than 100 EV charging stations in Tampa. Please check out Plugshare.com to find more near you. Note that more will appear as you zoom in.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:50 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
Thanks for that. There appear to be more than 100 EV charging stations in Tampa. Please check out Plugshare.com to find more near you. Note that more will appear as you zoom in.
Yes, I saw many on the map, but most appeared to be private homes when you clicked on them. The "public" ones were often "outlets", which I took to be regular 15 amp wall circuits.
Only one "fast charge" station anywhere near me.
I know parking in downtown Tampa is a nightmare, so finding an unused space with a charger is slim. (finding an open parking meter is a rare find) Like I said, most appeared to be inside parking garages, obviously in use all day as people work.
To paraphrase Yogi Berra, "Nobody goes downtown anymore, it's too crowded."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
Do I need to start posting photos of fires at fossil fuel plants? Can we agree they're vastly more likely to occur and be at larger scale than turbine fires?

Regarding birds, how many birds are killed by coal, oil, and natural gas plants? How many are killed by cats? US News took a look at that a while ago.
Not a winning argument. Just because someone else does it, doesn't make it okay. "Just because Billy smokes pot doesn't mean you can too".
Alternative energy should be better, not just as bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
Curious, do you have a source to substantiate that statement?
Sure.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...le-deaths.html
Google is full of sources if you don't like that one.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:53 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Yes, I saw many on the map, but most appeared to be private homes when you clicked on them. The "public" ones were often "outlets", which I took to be regular 15 amp wall circuits.
Only one "fast charge" station anywhere near me.
I know parking in downtown Tampa is a nightmare, so finding an unused space with a charger is slim. Like I said, most appeared to be inside parking garages, obviously in use all day as people work.
They have a filter on the side panel. Filtering out wall outlets and home chargers, the map looks like this when zoomed out.

It's worth remembering that most EV owners charge at home, not out and about. I have never charged at a public charger within 45 miles of my home, because why would I?
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:06 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Not a winning argument. Just because someone else does it, doesn't make it okay. "Just because Billy smokes pot doesn't mean you can too".
Alternative energy should be better, not just as bad.
Did you read the link? It is better. Significantly so.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:17 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
I've not seen a post this littered with misinformation in a while, speaking of facts.
Sigh!

Quote:
Um, no. 20.7% solar, 26.0% wind. Is there a source for your 3% number?
Yes, that was 2012, in 2016 it was 5.9%
It's not expected to be in the 20's until 2050!
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:29 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Sigh!



Yes, that was 2012, in 2016 it was 5.9%

It's not expected to be in the 20's until 2050!

Fair enough. It's 8.1% so far this year from the link I provided (go to pie charts). I calculated based on the bar charts I linked but that was installed capacity, not consumed energy. Units matter. Still, I hope you agree it's a not unsubstantial part of their mix. Also, they use quite a bit of wind power that you had suggested was installed but not used.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:31 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
I've not seen a post this littered with misinformation in a while, speaking of facts. So let's dissect.
Okay

Quote:
23% of Texas's electricity production comes from wind
Really? No.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:44 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Okay



Really? No.

That was 2016. 2017 reached my number. Note that my assertions are links to my sources.
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Old 07-21-2017, 12:46 PM   #159
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Wow, the naysayers really come out of the woodwork for a thread like this. Here's a bit of news for ya. http://www.wokv.com/news/local/new-j...cC2UxKckt2jbJ/ 5000 panels! This is by the same firm (A1A Solar) that installed my little 30 panel 7.8kW system. Guess I don't have to worry about THEM going out of business... Oh yea, they also installed the system used by the Power company itself to power their offices.

Today my system will achieve over 42kWhs and I expect a net gain of over 15 kWs as I am currently out of town.
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Old 07-21-2017, 01:41 PM   #160
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"Oil producers and research organizations around the world are revising their electric-vehicle forecasts upward as improving battery costs challenge previous assumptions about growth"

OPEC is reported to have revised their EV forecast upwards by 500% over last year's numbers.

It seems we are already ahead of lithium battery cost projections for 2030.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...recasts-upward

In my province, it was just reported that EV sales hit 4% in March, up from 1% last year. Projection is for 5% this year.
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