When to go electric for a tow vehicle

[out of sight]

Towing with an EV won't become practical until there are pull through charge stations where you can leave the rig for the hour or so it takes to charge. I havent seen any of these yet. Also, imagine pulling up to a charge station only to find someone just pulled in in front of you and you have to wait until he's done.

[mtbackpacker]

I saw some commentary about the upcoming Tesla semi truck and winter testing that is currently underway... apparently the electric drivetrain is providing a surprisingly effective means of control that substantially exceeds what a diesel is able to achieve. Tesla even has the intention of maintaining a substantial percent of that 600 mile range (maybe because the higher draw keeps the pack warm?). It also looks like there are plans for a charging network for those trucks that provides extremely high voltage/current to cut recharge times...

At any rate it will make sense to go electric when the tow vehicles are actually available... I predict that common towing benchmarks like the scoring of TFLs IKE test are going to need some adjustments when electric is in the mix... way better torque for the uphill (and no loss due to altitude) and massive regen on the downhill. The first cuts the acceleration time, the second cuts those brake applications that murder the scores of non-diesels.

The revolution in towing and truck performance could be a hard pill to swallow for anyone who wraps their identity up in having their big bad diesel truck.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by out of sight

Towing with an EV won't become practical until there are pull through charge stations where you can leave the rig for the hour or so it takes to charge. I havent seen any of these yet. Also, imagine pulling up to a charge station only to find someone just pulled in in front of you and you have to wait until he's done.

Completely agree. The EV TV issue is not power; it’s about range and charging time. And I’m not sitting around for an hour waiting for a charge. That charge time has to at least get down to 15 minutes. And I have to be able to drive at least 2 to 3 hours on a charge while towing a 7500lb trailer. Charging stations have to be ubiquitous.

[rmkrum]

And the hard reality is that all this infrastructure will take time to design, build, and implement. Once it’s in place, it will get very interesting.

[Countryboy59]

10 years ago the range of an EV was 45 miles, if that’s any indication of progress. Personally it doesn’t matter if EVs are ever ready to be tow vehicles. The vast majority of miles driven are people going to work, not retirees on vacation.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by MAJORJDB

Lol, while your on your own high horse, how about those new electric Harleys!! It might match your keyboard warrior/wild hog attitude!! EVs have been around for over 100yrs and for most they will be a novelty for some time. Government folks are already planning surcharges for EV owners to make up for lost fuel tax revenue (gas/diesel), so if it makes YOU feel good, buy one. Just remember your not going to save the World. Since much smarter people than I have told us that we only have 10-12 years left to live anyways, drink the schnapps and enjoy the ride on whatever you want. Have a great day!!
R & W Forever

Lol! No thanks, if the Harley doesn’t have a magneto or points and condensed I’m not interested!

[Tomzstream]

That's funny. I know HD riders like to detune their bikes to create more exhaust noise, as it's a safety thing. Yet they sit on machines that rattle and shake just to justify the "advantage". Most Euro Bike riders tune their machines for speed. And just as Luxury Electric cars these days are all about performance, i.e. Speed and acceleration, their quietness is seen as an advantage, at least in the luxury car market. But the important thing is that electric cars and bikes will outperform a similarly sized ICE, and that very fact is winning over former ICE enthusiasts everywhere. HD has addressed the need for sound so they can be seen so to speak, but it's just a matter of time before most vehicles are nearly silent. Fortunately pedestrian safety and other collision avoidance systems are advancing too, so perhaps safety for bikes and others will improve as well.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by MAJORJDB

. . .
. . . much smarter people than I have told us that we only have 10-12 years left to live anyways . . .
. . .

Curious as to how it is all supposed to end?

[Rocinante]

Several months later, and we are still absolutely loving our Chevy Bolt as a daily driver and even as an overnight road-tripper. It’s not a tow vehicle of course, but as our truck sits in the garage for weeks at a time between camping trips while sucking on a battery tender, we’re burning electrons instead of gas.
Argue your fact-free opinions all you want. Meanwhile, we happily drive around daily in our BEV, and look forward to the day when we find a BEV tow vehicle that can haul a 23FB at least 200 miles between charges. (See, we’d be perfectly happy to downsize our trailer from a 27FB to get that range.)

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Tomzstream

That's funny. I know HD riders like to detune their bikes to create more exhaust noise, as it's a safety thing. Yet they sit on machines that rattle and shake just to justify the "advantage". Most Euro Bike riders tune their machines for speed. And just as Luxury Electric cars these days are all about performance, i.e. Speed and acceleration, their quietness is seen as an advantage, at least in the luxury car market. But the important thing is that electric cars and bikes will outperform a similarly sized ICE, and that very fact is winning over former ICE enthusiasts everywhere. HD has addressed the need for sound so they can be seen so to speak, but it's just a matter of time before most vehicles are nearly silent. Fortunately pedestrian safety and other collision avoidance systems are advancing too, so perhaps safety for bikes and others will improve as well.

Lol you are funny. There’s as much knowledge of Harleys here as there is about electric cars.

[rmkrum]

Silent running is apparently an issue.

Our two Toyota Prius vehicles have a pedestrian warning sound generator that kicks in at very slow speeds when running only on battery.

I’m trying to figure out how to modify that silly noise to sound like the flying saucer from the “Jetsons” tv show. How cool would that be?

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Silent running is apparently an issue.

Our two Toyota Prius vehicles have a pedestrian warning sound generator that kicks in at very slow speeds when running only on battery.

I’m trying to figure out how to modify that silly noise to sound like the flying saucer from the “Jetsons” tv show. How cool would that be?

Another ridiculous idea from those who put crosswalk yields in roundabouts.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Another ridiculous idea from those who put crosswalk yields in roundabouts.

[emoji16][emoji1787]

[Prettygood]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Several months later, and we are still absolutely loving our Chevy Bolt as a daily driver and even as an overnight road-tripper. It’s not a tow vehicle of course, but as our truck sits in the garage for weeks at a time between camping trips while sucking on a battery tender, we’re burning electrons instead of gas.
Argue your fact-free opinions all you want. Meanwhile, we happily drive around daily in our BEV, and look forward to the day when we find a BEV tow vehicle that can haul a 23FB at least 200 miles between charges. (See, we’d be perfectly happy to downsize our trailer from a 27FB to get that range.)

Top tier Cybertruck will hit that mark, and I would bet money exceed that mark significantly. I’ve got $100 down to test the theory in a few years when they start rolling out.

[Tomzstream]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Lol you are funny. There’s as much knowledge of Harleys here as there is about electric cars.

or electric bikes? Seriously, Harley is having a hard time keeping up. But check this out if you think your Hog is anything special. This new tech not only outperforms speed wise, the safety technology is a real game changer.

https://electrek.co/2020/01/17/damon...k_UScgC1mNBLEI

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Tomzstream

or electric bikes? Seriously, Harley is having a hard time keeping up. But check this out if you think your Hog is anything special. This new tech not only outperforms speed wise, the safety technology is a real game changer.

https://electrek.co/2020/01/17/damon...k_UScgC1mNBLEI

That’s cool, for the younger set with very little riding experience. They are statistically the most dangerous riders on the road. I’ll stick with well-lighted, large and loud thank you. If you need elaborate collision avoidance on a vehicle maybe you should reconsider driving.

I was probably one of the early adopters of Electric vehicles but even I realize you need different vehicles to do different jobs. For me that results in 2 SUVs, a diesel truck, and several Harleys ranging from 1976 to 2019.

[jcl]

Can-Am RV is experimenting with a Tesla tow vehicle. They are using a Model 3, and a Sport 22. Link below. They reported that they towed from London to Toronto (200 km) and had 64 km of range left. Not sure which version of the Model 3 they have, and thus what the range is solo. They do comment on the towing stability. It will be interesting to see how this develops. More data points is a good thing IMO. Thanks to Can-Am for documenting their experiences.

https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/tes...tream-trailer/

[OTRA15]

Thanks for that great article, and to Can-Am RV for leading the way.

A reminder that ohmman has a thread which offers real world insights into towing with a Tesla Model X.

Peter

[click on orange arrow to go directly to this post]

Originally Posted by ohmman

I've got a Tesla Model X and an Airstream Sport 22. Vehicle cost ranges quite a bit depending on build. I have a 90kWh battery that is no longer offered. Towing reduces range by just less than half, so I mentally consider about half as the limit and that gives me a little breathing room. Charging is included with the purchase, so when traveling I will charge at Tesla chargers and not pay anything. The campgrounds don't charge extra either, and at home I use a 10kW solar array to charge both of my EVs (we have two EVs and no ICE vehicles).

For more information, check out my thread here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-x-160951.html

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by primepower

I have a 50 gallon titan tank installed and get get about 13.5 mpg. Plus I can fill up in about 10 minutes. At this point it takes much longer to recharge for equivalent mileage. Not that equivalent mileage currently exists.

I can drive from Virginia to Florida pulling the AS in one day with my current setup. EV's just aren't there yet.

Like I said; your requirements are so stringent you even have to modify a current diesel to meet them.

As for fill ups I think if it were 30 minutes it wouldn't make a dent in my stops. Especially when towing. Gotta pee, get a snack, maybe McDs for lunch. When I am solo in my car driving long days I pop in and out of a gas station, but when towing I have my wife, dog, perhaps grandkids so each stop is more of an "event"

[Tomzstream]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

If you need elaborate collision avoidance on a vehicle maybe you should reconsider driving.

Well, my 17 year old eyes were good enough to qualify me as a pilot to the AFA, but my 67 year old eyes lack that peripheral vision that I once had. And anyone who thinks their reaction time (regardless of age) is superior to a microprocessor, is well, delusional. I'll take all the safety tech I can afford. Not ready to give up driving, and someday I may very well trust fully self driving vehicles... but not yet. and besides, it's the other guy I worry about.