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Old 01-10-2020, 03:35 AM   #561
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EV's are mostly toys at this point. You can buy an ICE at the same level of luxury for about half the price. Both will get you from point A to point B as advertised so why spend all that extra money? You will never get it back in fuel savings. The answer is that some people enjoy the novelty (toy value). Another reason is status. I know a politician who just bought a Tesla because she wanted to present herself as being Green. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy something for its toy value or status but let's recognize it for what it is, or isn't. It isn't economical, not at this point in time.

The future may well be in EVs but I think this will come in the form of self drive Ubers around 2050.
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Old 01-10-2020, 05:23 AM   #562
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EV's are mostly toys at this point. You can buy an ICE at the same level of luxury for about half the price. Both will get you from point A to point B as advertised so why spend all that extra money? You will never get it back in fuel savings. The answer is that some people enjoy the novelty (toy value). Another reason is status. I know a politician who just bought a Tesla because she wanted to present herself as being Green. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy something for its toy value or status but let's recognize it for what it is, or isn't. It isn't economical, not at this point in time.

The future may well be in EVs but I think this will come in the form of self drive Ubers around 2050.
How about we just let people buy what they want without implying anything from it? I like Harleys, you might think they suck or are antiquated but guess what? I don’t care. There’s a guy here with a Tesla who couldn’t care less about the environment, also rides a Harley, drives a diesel, and goes hunting every fall. A Model 3 costs the same as a nice Lexus so “half the cost” is pure BS. And I bet the politician mentioned above never actually said anything about being “green”.

The last sentence quoted above about Ubers and 2050 shows a complete lack of knowledge of what the OEMs here and abroad are actually working on. There’s nothing wrong with saying “I don’t know”.

This thread reminds me of a bunch of retired people in a Hamtramck bar arguing over a few PBRs.
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Old 01-10-2020, 05:40 AM   #563
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I'm actually looking at getting a Rivian. A waste of money for sure but major toy value. No I'm not doing it to save the environment. I'm one of those people who realize we need more carbon in the atmosphere, not less, if life on earth is to continue.
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:30 AM   #564
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Out of sight is just a troll.

A complete waste of time responding to him.

I have moved his posts to ignore, and can't see them, as I don't argue with fools.

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Old 01-10-2020, 07:48 AM   #565
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You can always tell when you're winning an argument when the other side runs out of substantive replies and begins hurling insults.

Anyway, the Rivian looks better than the Cybertruck. It seems to have more creature comforts. Neither is much of a tow vehicle because of the limited range but it could have some limited tow value if you just need it to shuttle your trailer around town or to a local campground.
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:25 AM   #566
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When there is a way for me to wander the Mojave for a week without hook ups for a week at a time like I do now with an electric truck.

Then I will consider them. Until then. They do not meet my needs.
I don't think that's a problem for the future of electric vehicles. EVs will first be adopted by drivers/companies where it makes sense to do so now. As the technology improves EVs will suit the needs of more people, and at some point either laws, the cost of petroleum fuels or the lack of availability of ICE vehicles will take care of the rest.
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:21 PM   #567
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Gasoline will never disappear. It's need to fuel those on obnoxious leaf blowers that seem to run non-stop in every neighborhood across the country.
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:11 AM   #568
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Gasoline will never disappear. It's need to fuel those on obnoxious leaf blowers that seem to run non-stop in every neighborhood across the country.
LOL another worthless prediction. I have converted my entire lawn care equipment to fully electric. I have a nice EGO lawnmower, and B&D lithium powered trimmers, edgers, and LEAFBLOWER and other tools. I charge all from Solar sources. I have a GZ Yeti 1000 that is portable and can charge all of the above on a single charge. I charge the Yeti with spare solar panels (up to 560W) in a matter of hours. I am working on a prototype lawn maintenance cargo van with all of the above that I may put into business with some neighborhood kids (imagine that) next summer. 100% Green and the real advantage, QUIET!

BTW, my 11.5 KW Solar Array on my house is generating an excess of 10-12 KWhs daily which I will carry over into the hot summer months. I was not only break even last year, I managed to bank a nice reserve should it ever decide to turn cold here in North Florida... It's been unusually warm this year.
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:35 AM   #569
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Tomzstream...very cool you are enjoying all the lithium battery powered devices and solar panels on your house. Fantastic!
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:45 AM   #570
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As a Minnesota resident currently in the midwinter, I have wondered what effect heating the cabin has on range of electric cars/trucks.
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Old 01-11-2020, 12:02 PM   #571
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As a Minnesota resident currently in the midwinter, I have wondered what effect heating the cabin has on range of electric cars/trucks.
Any electrical draw will affect range; but advancements in thermal heating capacitors may help mitigate this draw back.
Thermal heating capacitors could draw heat from your braking, heat from braking would then be transfered to a super conducting fluid, that could retain the heat for hours. The fluid would be pumped through a heat exchanger in the cabin, just like the cooling system currently in your car.

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Old 01-12-2020, 04:47 AM   #572
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As a Minnesota resident currently in the midwinter, I have wondered what effect heating the cabin has on range of electric cars/trucks.
Some electric vehicles use heat pumps in addition to resistive heaters. That can significantly cut the energy required, to about a third if I remember correctly. If itís really cold they do need to use resistance and thatís as bad as you expect.

Since the heat needed is more a function of time than range the effect of heating on range will be worse the slower you go. Even with NH winters the Tesla owner I talked to said the heater use didnít make much dent on his range.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:18 AM   #573
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How about we just let people buy what they want without implying anything from it? I like Harleys, you might think they suck or are antiquated but guess what? I donít care. Thereís a guy here with a Tesla who couldnít care less about the environment, also rides a Harley, drives a diesel, and goes hunting every fall. A Model 3 costs the same as a nice Lexus so ďhalf the costĒ is pure BS. And I bet the politician mentioned above never actually said anything about being ďgreenĒ.

The last sentence quoted above about Ubers and 2050 shows a complete lack of knowledge of what the OEMs here and abroad are actually working on. Thereís nothing wrong with saying ďI donít knowĒ.

This thread reminds me of a bunch of retired people in a Hamtramck bar arguing over a few PBRs.
Lol, while your on your own high horse, how about those new electric Harleys!! It might match your keyboard warrior/wild hog attitude!! EVs have been around for over 100yrs and for most they will be a novelty for some time. Government folks are already planning surcharges for EV owners to make up for lost fuel tax revenue (gas/diesel), so if it makes YOU feel good, buy one. Just remember your not going to save the World. Since much smarter people than I have told us that we only have 10-12 years left to live anyways, drink the schnapps and enjoy the ride on whatever you want. Have a great day!!
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Old 01-12-2020, 07:12 AM   #574
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Most of the EVs I have looked at recently have Pre-Conditioning (Heat or AC) that you can activate while the car is still plugged in, and presumably in your garage. I imagine it works as well while plugged into a public charging station, but I do not know. Nothing like hopping into a pre-cooled, or pre-heated car, and while Northerners like their remote start functions for the same, it does burn a lot of fuel.

The biggest complaint I have against most of the EVs is their glass roofs... a non-starter here in Florida. Tesla, I-Pace (now has a flimsy clip-in cover), and others all have this greenhouse roof. Looks futuristic, yes, but is dumb in practice. Only the E-Tron had an actual retractable shade. And even with an interior shade, that class is still a good conductor of heat/cold. I know they are working on insulated glass but the EV makers hate to add weight, probably the reason for using glass to begin with. My new GLS450 has the Acoustic Comfort package with insulated glass, and it is very quiet and supposedly cooler in the summer. We went with a normal sunroof too, to avoid the panorama roof that picks up so much heat in the summer. My wife has it in her E350 wagon and even with the shade it's hot! I have resorted to putting a roof box on in the summer to create portable shade!

Not sure if MB offers the insulated glass on the Sprinter, but I am sure it would be a welcome addition to the Interstate. Biggest complaint I had about my RT CS was it got so awful hot sitting in the sun.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:14 AM   #575
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. . .
. . . My wife has it in her E350 wagon and even with the shade it's hot! I have resorted to putting a roof box on in the summer to create portable shade!
. . .


Vantastic!

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Old 01-12-2020, 10:59 AM   #576
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You can always tell when you're winning an argument when the other side runs out of substantive replies and begins hurling insults.


Or when the opponent never learns from information given and continues to give their opinion as fact, despite being incorrect. Thatís when itís clear the argument isnít winnable, because one participant isnít discussing in good faith.
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:42 PM   #577
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When to go electric for a tow vehicle
When it makes sense to me.
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:54 PM   #578
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I'll consider them when I can go 500 miles comfortable with the AS between charges. Until then it doesn't meet my needs. Electric vehicle tend to decrease the range by 2/3 when loaded so it would need to be able to go 1500 miles unloaded. There needs to be a major breakthrough in battery or other storage option for that to happen. I am open to it though.

Before I bought my XT4 I considered an e-tron. I would save $1k per year on fuel, however my insurance would have been $1k higher so it was a wash on costs, but the ability to acquire more fuel for the ICE made it an easy choice. My family and I easily and often travel 9 hours per day on vacations. Don't have time to wait for recharging. In fact in my diesel Audi Q5 we only have to fill up once going from Virginia to Missouri. Can't beat that. We make excellent time stopping once per day.
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Old 01-12-2020, 02:03 PM   #579
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I'll consider them when I can go 500 miles comfortable with the AS between charges. Until then it doesn't meet my needs. Electric vehicle tend to decrease the range by 2/3 when loaded so it would need to be able to go 1500 miles unloaded. There needs to be a major breakthrough in battery or other storage option for that to happen. I am open to it though.

Before I bought my XT4 I considered an e-tron. I would save $1k per year on fuel, however my insurance would have been $1k higher so it was a wash on costs, but the ability to acquire more fuel for the ICE made it an easy choice. My family and I easily and often travel 9 hours per day on vacations. Don't have time to wait for recharging. In fact in my diesel Audi Q5 we only have to fill up once going from Virginia to Missouri. Can't beat that. We make excellent time stopping once per day.
Interesting. Heck, my diesel Ford only goes right about 400 miles (under optimum conditions) with my AS on the back before I have to fill it up. You have pretty stringent requirements.
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Old 01-12-2020, 02:09 PM   #580
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I have a 50 gallon titan tank installed and get get about 13.5 mpg. Plus I can fill up in about 10 minutes. At this point it takes much longer to recharge for equivalent mileage. Not that equivalent mileage currently exists.

I can drive from Virginia to Florida pulling the AS in one day with my current setup. EV's just aren't there yet.
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Interesting. Heck, my diesel Ford only goes right about 400 miles (under optimum conditions) with my AS on the back before I have to fill it up. You have pretty stringent requirements.
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