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Old 01-07-2020, 05:31 AM   #541
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Well said . . . thanks for that great link!

This picture is worth many words . . . . . .

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Old 01-07-2020, 07:31 AM   #542
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At this point in time you're paying $20,000 for the privelege of driving an EV over an ICE. They won't become widespread until they become cheaper.
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:40 AM   #543
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At this point in time you're paying $20,000 for the privelege of driving an EV over an ICE. They won't become widespread until they become cheaper.
Where are you coming up with these figures?
You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
Different vehicles, different prices; long term costs, ICE maintenance....there are so many different variables at play right now; and they're changing everyday. To just blurt out that an EV is $20,000 more than an ICE vehicle is wrong.

Keep your head in the sand.....EV's are coming.....even to the big three and their vaunted pick ups.
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Old 01-07-2020, 08:17 AM   #544
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This is funny too me.. 55 pages of EV will save the world vs show me reality.

Letís just accept the facts, yes we will see more EVs in more classes especially over the next 5 years.

Tesla may or may not survive as an independent entity

HD and/or tow vehicles will be a later development vs light duty pickups.

Letís see if we can hit 100 pages.
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Old 01-07-2020, 08:37 AM   #545
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Where are you coming up with these figures?
You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
Different vehicles, different prices; long term costs, ICE maintenance....there are so many different variables at play right now; and they're changing everyday. To just blurt out that an EV is $20,000 more than an ICE vehicle is wrong.

Keep your head in the sand.....EV's are coming.....even to the big three and their vaunted pick ups.
$30,000 for an F-150 vs $50,000 for a Cybertruck. Both do the same job.
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Old 01-07-2020, 09:00 AM   #546
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The biggest most powerful Tesla today, Model X, starts at $81K. I'd be shocked if the much larger and more powerful Cybertruck comes in for less than the Model X.
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Old 01-07-2020, 09:36 AM   #547
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Elon said the Cybertruck would come in under $50,000, but let's see next year when it goes on sale. I tend to agree it will be more.
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Old 01-07-2020, 09:37 AM   #548
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$30,000 for an F-150 vs $50,000 for a Cybertruck. Both do the same job.
Again, you are not looking at the whole picture! What are the long term costs to own versus F150 and Cybertruck.
Just for example, how much would your F150 depreciate in 10 years, compared to a Cybertruck. How much gas expense and maintainance costs have you saved.
To many variables to just blurt out figures.
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Old 01-07-2020, 09:53 AM   #549
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After 10 years both vehicles will be practically worthless. The F-150 will have a worn out engine and the Cybertruck will have a dead battery.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:43 AM   #550
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While operating costs for EV's are lower than ICE vehicles now, they may come closer in the future. For example electricity rates today under PG&E range from 17 cents at night to 48 cents per kilowatt in daytime. So at the cheapest rate it costs $20 to fill the battery of a Model X, but almost $57 at the highest.

If you've paid attention to the news, PG&E rates will most certainly be going up a lot over the next few years, maybe double. So it's possible charging at home may cost between $40 and nearly $100 dollars. Not everybody can afford, or has the property, to install a large array of solar. As pressure is exerted to close all fossil fueled and nuclear power plants electric prices will most likely rise nationwide.

Also, as EV's dominate sales, pressure will come to substantially increase road taxes on them to keep the roads in passable condition. All this means to me, don't expect a free or cheap lunch from owning a EV looking forward.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:52 AM   #551
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When there is a way for me to wander the Mojave for a week without hook ups for a week at a time like I do now with an electric truck.

Then I will consider them. Until then. They do not meet my needs.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:26 PM   #552
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While operating costs for EV's are lower than ICE vehicles now, they may come closer in the future. For example electricity rates today under PG&E range from 17 cents at night to 48 cents per kilowatt in daytime. So at the cheapest rate it costs $20 to fill the battery of a Model X, but almost $57 at the highest.
48 cents per KWH? That's outrageous. Almost all of that is surely hidden tax. I'd get the heck out of there. Maybe emigrate to Quebec. Hydro-Quebec charges 5 cents per kwh.
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:31 PM   #553
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California has mandated the state be 100% clean energy by 2045. No fossil fuels after that. Including residential and commercial properties. This requires a massive build up of solar/wind generation. A big ask just to meet current electrical demands, but even greater when all vehicles are electric and all homes and business go all electric for heat, hot water, and cooking. All the worse too as folks are also trying to shut down the last nuclear power plant in the state and demolish dams for fish. So that's why, among other things, electric power cost so much and is bound to cost ever more.
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:24 PM   #554
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When there is a way for me to wander the Mojave for a week without hook ups for a week at a time like I do now with an electric truck.

Then I will consider them. Until then. They do not meet my needs.
That sentence made my teeth hurt.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:07 AM   #555
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After 10 years both vehicles will be practically worthless. The F-150 will have a worn out engine and the Cybertruck will have a dead battery.
Who cares? After 5 years most people trade in.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:10 AM   #556
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While operating costs for EV's are lower than ICE vehicles now, they may come closer in the future. For example electricity rates today under PG&E range from 17 cents at night to 48 cents per kilowatt in daytime. So at the cheapest rate it costs $20 to fill the battery of a Model X, but almost $57 at the highest.

If you've paid attention to the news, PG&E rates will most certainly be going up a lot over the next few years, maybe double. So it's possible charging at home may cost between $40 and nearly $100 dollars. Not everybody can afford, or has the property, to install a large array of solar. As pressure is exerted to close all fossil fueled and nuclear power plants electric prices will most likely rise nationwide.

Also, as EV's dominate sales, pressure will come to substantially increase road taxes on them to keep the roads in passable condition. All this means to me, don't expect a free or cheap lunch from owning a EV looking forward.
Yeah, youíre right. Letís just abandon the idea and stick with petroleum fuels.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:21 AM   #557
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I love this thread...
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Old 01-08-2020, 12:18 PM   #558
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Yeah, youíre right. Letís just abandon the idea and stick with petroleum fuels.
Yes, and Keep in mind that petroleum is organic stored solar power.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:11 PM   #559
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Some folks are early adapters of new technology, they end up paying a premium to be first and more often than not, act as beta testers discovering and suffering the initial kinks and flaws, but sometimes enjoy a better product before the manufacturer figures out how to cut costs and pound them out faster and cheaper.

Other folks wait until version 2.0 for this very reason, and/or to let a market leader emerge and for the infrastructure to mature.

Some folks will never change or upgrade because they are unable or unwilling to change paradigms, or they are uncomfortable with or even distrustful of something new or different, or they can't afford to, or their current product adequately meets their needs.

And sadly, in this case, some completely ignore and overlook any social or global benefit, and focus solely on their own short-term bottom line, unwilling to spend a penny more for the common good.
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:24 PM   #560
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Regarding "toy" status - we are approaching 4 years (in March) of not owning an ICE at all. 6 years of EV ownership, and those two overlapping years we rarely drove our Odyssey. We tow our AS with our EV and have gone thousands of miles doing so. They're not toys, they're vehicles. Good ones, and we've used our rooftop solar to charge them or, at times, offset our charging by back feeding the grid.

My 6 year old Model S with 60k miles has 257 miles of range. Brand new, it had 261 miles of range. So having a "dead battery" in 10 years is uninformed nonsense. I've never paid a dime for service on the car, but I have replaced tires and windshield fluid.

It's fine to be uninformed about EVs, but it's quite another thing to pretend that one is informed, and to speak with authority on a topic with which one has no experience. Being wrong is OK. Being wrong but boldly asserting you're right.. not as OK.
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