When to go electric for a tow vehicle

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

Actually for 2 weeks this April.

And then there is air conditioning which actually takes MORE energy. I suppose you could run with the windows rolled down. Not a great selling point however.

And what about the infrastructure to charge cars? That just doesn’t happen. It has to be profitable or forget it.

I have yet to see one charging place in Wisconsin. With only 2% of all car sales electric do you really think there will be the motivation to build such an expensive infrastructure?

We are a long way off from electric cars being the norm UNLESS there is a way for a vehicle to have its own capability of generating electricity. Charging stations are a joke. Would you sit for 20 minutes waiting to fill a tank of gas? Do you really think the consuming public that is use to fast food will?

No way it is coming soon. Tesla is going broke. If they can’t do it with all that capital behind it I doubt others will invest only to see the investments lost UNLESS the technology takes a MAJOR leap. And batteries only have a limited capability with regard to holding power and getting power.

A 12 volt, lead-acid battery for your car costs roughly the same today as it did in 1981 with slightly improved performance.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#46abdd876dac

Thus unless there is some kind of fuel cell that can create electricity I doubt it will happen any time soon.

Funny post. Tesla is FAR from the only manufacturer bringing out an EV. Even Hyundai has one now.

I never thought they would catch on either, but things change. I was lucky to get 45 miles out of mine, in 2005, and it took all night to charge. Range is now pushing 150-200 miles. I had 24 lead acid batteries weighing almost 1200 lbs, Now the entire pack is less than 200 lbs.

To the original topic, we’re a ways out from EVs being adopted by retirees using them for towing or vacations; it may never happen. But for people who work, they’re not going away.

[Tomzstream]

This certainly puts a twist on the concept of electric towing, and in this case, makes a lot of sense for folks considering Teslas as tow vehicles. Doubt we'll ever see it on an Airstream though. I don't see any reason why someone couldn't come up with an adapter kit to convert one axle to power driven in a tandem setup, using the other as a tag axle.
The best of both worlds. https://newatlas.com/dethleffs-elect...caravan/56056/

[Tomzstream]

Another article about the Push Me Pull You setup. I particularly like the idea of using the powerpack as a backup for the house. I don't know how much insulation there is on the bottom mounted Lithium pack, but it looks to be larger than a Tesla Powerhouse. https://electrek.co/2018/08/27/campe...-solar-panels/

[WhereStream]

Cool concept.

Even a trailer with only the battery pack, no motors, would greatly extend the range of an electric tow vehicle.

How would an electric tow do in the mountains?

[joshjack]

Originally Posted by WhereStream

Cool concept.



Even a trailer with only the battery pack, no motors, would greatly extend the range of an electric tow vehicle.



How would an electric tow do in the mountains?

Not speaking from personal experience, but I did own an EV for a while and also did a lot of research - the mountains is not as bad as most people think. Regenerative braking is surprising efficient, so going downhills a lot of energy is recouped.

[Isuzusweet]

A new entry on the horizon....

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/11/15/...-truck-teaser/

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[robert claus]

VW has a Board of Directors meeting this week to plan the company's transition to electric vehicles. It's significant because they are in first or second place as the world's largest car manufacturer, and have abandoned diesel development. It will make EVs mainstream. I just moved to a VW Atlas as my TV, which is a vast improvement over the diesel Mercedes Sprinter I've used for 10 years (and gets the same mileage). If they introduce an electric or hybrid version, I would be tempted to trade on one.
Every car company is working on EVs, including GM, Ford, and Chrysler, and trucks are bound to be part of the transition because of the lower cost of operation.

[DewTheDew]

I have to say that as a scientist who has been involved with national and international efforts to improve batteries, drivetrains, fuel cells and ICE's; there sure is a lot of misinformation in this thread! I do not own an EV or hybrid (though I do own a diesel) but it is clear that this is the way things are heading and it is interesting to consider the potential problems but also potential advantages (no oil changes). Batteries are improving quite a bit and are substantially less expensive than even five years ago. Recycling is being addressed as is re-use (batteries that no longer meet specs in cars are great for storing energy on the grid for much longer). The electric infrastructure largely exists so charging stations aren't that pricey (compared to things like hydrogen stations). Think of how much infrastructure had to be created to have all these gas stations! Hybrids are a great transition as prices come down, performance goes up, and we learn more about how to best utilize these things. We are quite a ways off from towing Airstreams across the country but it is closer than most people think. Frankly I think it is exciting because I love torque :-)

[Isuzusweet]

Okay people...nirvarna is here....0-60mph, 3 seconds, 826FT/LB of torque, 400 miles of range..

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/th...r-acceleration

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

PS I started this thread July 8th 2017 to which a number of posters catagorically stated, "not in their lifetime would a truck be able to tow an Airstream and go 400 miles". To which I responded, it's coming a lot sooner than you think.
While this truck may not be able to go 400 miles towing an Airstream, I have no doubt it will someday soon.

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Okay people...nirvarna is here....0-60mph, 3 seconds, 826FT/LB of torque, 400 miles of range..

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/th...r-acceleration

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

PS I started this thread July 8th 2017 to which a number of posters catagorically stated, "not in their lifetime would a truck be able to tow an Airstream and go 400 miles". To which I responded, it's coming a lot sooner than you think.
While this truck may not be able to go 400 miles towing an Airstream, I have no doubt it will someday soon.

While I am a fan of electric vehicles, there are enough "air cars" out there that I will believe it when I see it.

I do like the idea of loading up the trailer with batteries to extend the range of the truck.

[Daquenzer]

Towing with an EV is quite some time off.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/electri...le_email_share

Not opposed to EV. But I think we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit. Maybe for people in urban areas an EV makes sense for commuter travel. But in rural WI it doesn’t. As the article above states, it surely doesn’t make environmental sense.

Personally I think more time should be in the development of hydrogen powered vehicles.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

Towing with an EV is quite some time off.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/electri...le_email_share

Not opposed to EV. But I think we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit. Maybe for people in urban areas an EV makes sense for commuter travel. But in rural WI it doesn’t. As the article above states, it surely doesn’t make environmental sense.

Personally I think more time should be in the development of hydrogen powered vehicles.

If anyone is visiting Bailey's Harbor, in rural Wisconsin, there is a charger available. It can be seen on the side of the Blacksmith Inn.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Tes...!4d-87.1239638

Google show 7 gas stations in close proximity to this small town. And 7 vehicle charging stations within the same distance. Of course, anybody with an electric vehicle probably has a charger at home as well.

Many modern hydrogen powered vehicles have fuel cells, and as such are electric vehicles. Just a different form of battery.

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

Towing with an EV is quite some time off.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/electri...le_email_share

Not opposed to EV. But I think we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit. Maybe for people in urban areas an EV makes sense for commuter travel. But in rural WI it doesn’t. As the article above states, it surely doesn’t make environmental sense.

Personally I think more time should be in the development of hydrogen powered vehicles.

There are a lot of efforts also on fuel cell cars, but the technology is further away so you don't hear much about it. The Department of Energy probably spends $100M/yr on the science and technology of hydrogen fuel cells. Aside from the technical challenges there are far harder infrastructure challenges. I mean, for EVs we at least have a well distributed electric grid including in most homes. For hydrogen you are nearly starting from scratch.

[jcl]

We have our first Hydrogen fuel station open now in Vancouver. It is a Shell station. Hydrogen vehicles out now include Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai, all cars, with buses and larger trucks coming.

Distribution through existing stations isn’t that big a challenge IMO, we have had CNG and propane for years at stations. What is required is clean energy to produce the hydrogen, either hydro, wind, or solar. Making it out of natural gas doesn’t make sense.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by jcl

If anyone is visiting Bailey's Harbor, in rural Wisconsin, there is a charger available. It can be seen on the side of the Blacksmith Inn.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Tes...!4d-87.1239638

Google show 7 gas stations in close proximity to this small town. And 7 vehicle charging stations within the same distance. Of course, anybody with an electric vehicle probably has a charger at home as well.

Many modern hydrogen powered vehicles have fuel cells, and as such are electric vehicles. Just a different form of battery.

Yep, and it takes 30 minutes to charge. And that assumes you get there first and no one else is there.

And if you go to South Dakota there are 3 in the entire state all along the Interstate Highway. And if you are in Northern Wisconsin there’s only one and that is in Duluth, MN, and one in Eau Claire, WI, and one in Green Bay, WI

The reason Baileys Harbor is big on them is Door County is a Mecca for tourists. We have lots of rich people with lake homes that can afford electric cars. Not the case is most rural areas of the country.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by jcl

We have our first Hydrogen fuel station open now in Vancouver. It is a Shell station. Hydrogen vehicles out now include Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai, all cars, with buses and larger trucks coming.

Distribution through existing stations isn’t that big a challenge IMO, we have had CNG and propane for years at stations. What is required is clean energy to produce the hydrogen, either hydro, wind, or solar. Making it out of natural gas doesn’t make sense.

The biggest issue with hydrogen is the means of production. But that’s the same with electricity as well. Actually if we could produce electricity with nuclear power it would be the most efficient. The problem is nuclear plants are very expensive to build and the time it takes to build due to regulations is long. Wind is worthless and an eye sore. Solar is pointless in WI. Coal is a major pollutant and CO2 contributor. So it’s not an easy solution.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

The biggest issue with hydrogen is the means of production. But that’s the same with electricity as well. Actually if we could produce electricity with nuclear power it would be the most efficient. The problem is nuclear plants are very expensive to build and the time it takes to build due to regulations is long. Wind is worthless and an eye sore. Solar is pointless in WI. Coal is a major pollutant and CO2 contributor. So it’s not an easy solution.

Admittedly VERY ignorant question here...

Junior high school science included separating hydrogen from oxygen using a battery. What prevents creation of hydrogen on a larger scale to drive a combustion engine through electrolysis? Fill your tank with water, separate with electricity (i.e., battery) and fuel with hydrogen....surely I’m missing something or we’d be doing it already....

[jcl]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Admittedly VERY ignorant question here...

Junior high school science included separating hydrogen from oxygen using a battery. What prevents creation of hydrogen on a larger scale to drive a combustion engine through electrolysis? Fill your tank with water, separate with electricity (i.e., battery) and fuel with hydrogen....surely I’m missing something or we’d be doing it already....

Inefficiency. Hydrogen is produced through electrolysis. If you put the hydrogen into a fuel cell, you can have an electric powered vehicle with longer range and a five minute refill instead of a longer recharging time.

IC engines have very low efficiencies. Think of all the heat they produce. Using hydrogen in an IC engine would be a little like using an electric boat to hunt whales so that we could run our whale oil lamps. Not necessary, since the electricity for the electric boat could instead be used for LED lights and we could then skip the whole lamp and wick step. IC engines will go the same way as oil lamps, it will just take time.

[Lgebhardt]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Admittedly VERY ignorant question here...

Junior high school science included separating hydrogen from oxygen using a battery. What prevents creation of hydrogen on a larger scale to drive a combustion engine through electrolysis? Fill your tank with water, separate with electricity (i.e., battery) and fuel with hydrogen....surely I’m missing something or we’d be doing it already....

You have loss at each step (electrolysis and combustion in your example each are about 50% efficient at best). It would be far more efficient to just use the battery to drive an electric motor.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

The biggest issue with hydrogen is the means of production. But that’s the same with electricity as well. Actually if we could produce electricity with nuclear power it would be the most efficient. The problem is nuclear plants are very expensive to build and the time it takes to build due to regulations is long. Wind is worthless and an eye sore. Solar is pointless in WI. Coal is a major pollutant and CO2 contributor. So it’s not an easy solution.

Fortunately, neither easily compressed gases, nor electricity need to be produced in every location. They can be transported or transmitted.