When to go electric for a tow vehicle

[Meeks]

Interesting, quick read on UPS electrifying part of their delivery fleet in London and beyond.

https://electrek.co/2018/03/30/end-i...t-to-electric/

[Isuzusweet]

Electric Winnebago anyone?

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/07/tech...ric/index.html

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[jcl]

Or an all electric F650? There are already companies putting pickup boxes on the F650, so combine that with the Roush electric powertrain, and there you go, an electric F650 pickup. The prototype has limited range, but there is lots of room and capacity to add battery packs.

Not yet commercially available, but a hint at what is coming.

https://www.trucks.com/2018/05/02/ro...an-fuel-truck/

[donrogers]

I must confess that this topic interests me very much, as I have been following the development of electric vehicles for some time. You might want to watch Tony Seba’s most recent video. https://youtu.be/ox5LtxqQNHw

This huge disruption in energy production and usage will most likely be one of the biggest changes experienced by our generation.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by donrogers

I must confess that this topic interests me very much, as I have been following the development of electric vehicles for some time.

Since the 1st electric car was invented in 1828, you could certainly follow the development for a long time...

[OTRA15]

18 . .
28?

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

18 . .
28?

"In 1828, Ányos Jedlik, a Hungarian who invented an early type of electric motor, created a small model car powered by his new motor. In 1834, Professor Sibrandus Stratingh of Groningen, the Netherlands and his assistant Christopher Becker created a small-scale electrical car, powered by non-rechargeable primary cells."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ectric_vehicle

[OTRA15]

Thanks -- amazing!


Peter

[donrogers]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

Since the 1st electric car was invented in 1828, you could certainly follow the development for a long time...

Of course electric power has been around for a long time. The game changer is convergent technologies, such as rapidly changing battery technologies combined with the latest in efficient, powerful, high torque electric motors...just what is needed in a TV. Naturally, ICE lovers will resist the change, until the economic benefits become irresistible.

[RVDreamer]

Originally Posted by turk123

Two weeks ago , and after waiting 1 1/2 years, my wife and I received our 2018 Model 3 Tesla. It is a wonderful car. This is never going to be a TV for us, but we bought it after driving my son's Model S.

The remarkable thing about it, is that it is the most powerful car I've ever driven, and I've owned some muscle cars in my early years. It is truly remarkable off the line with continuous power.

Let move ahead about a year or two. Elon Musk has announced he will be making a pickup truck. In two years I believe the range of the truck will be 500-600 miles. It will have more torque than any current pickup and Elon bragged it will carry a current pickup. An electric TV will be at home in a campsite with 30 or 50 amp station nearby, and would practically eliminate the largest cost in traveling, the fuel. My model three, using the tesla superchargers, can travel from New York to Los angeles for about $105 in electricity. It currently charges at night in my garage at about 30 miles per hour of charge.

I just bought an F-250 diesel (2017) for my new TV. The complexity of that engine is way beyond my knowledge. The fluids, filters, air cleaning DEF, radiators, transmission are all very complex and very expensive to buy and maintain. Imagine an electric TV with one electric motor, no transmission, no gears, no fluids (well one gear housing with oil) no radiators, more storage, more torque, more speed, and no diesel smell or noise.

It's all coming soon to a Tesla dealer near you.

Yeah, the only problem with that prognosis is that Tesla is on the verge of bankruptcy. They have been running huge deficits for years and have only been surviving due to the magnetic charisma of Elon Musk and his ability to raise venture capital. Every year they keep promising investors that they will make a profit eventually. Every year they are set back on that goal. It is only a matter of time before investors pull their money out of Tesla and it collapses into bankruptcy.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by RVDreamer

Yeah, the only problem with that prognosis is that Tesla is on the verge of bankruptcy. They have been running huge deficits for years and have only been surviving due to the magnetic charisma of Elon Musk and his ability to raise venture capital. Every year they keep promising investors that they will make a profit eventually. Every year they are set back on that goal. It is only a matter of time before investors pull their money out of Tesla and it collapses into bankruptcy.

There are lots of companies producing electric vehicles, and bringing new electrical vehicles to market, that aren't Tesla. If Tesla isn't there, many others will be. I don't understand the personal focus on Musk when discussing electric vehicles.

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by jcl

There are lots of companies producing electric vehicles, and bringing new electrical vehicles to market, that aren't Tesla. If Tesla isn't there, many others will be. I don't understand the personal focus on Musk when discussing electric vehicles.

Right! Electric cars aren't going away. Japan has more charging stations (although many are private) than they do gas stations and Volkswagen, BMW, Daimler and Ford and cooperating on a network of charging stations throughout Europe.

Ionity pushes roll-out of European charging network for electric cars

[HHPJ]

World wide, Electricity is mostly generated by nuclear energy and then natural gas and fossil fuel and coal are tied.

“Most of U.S. electricity is generated using fossil fuels. In 2016, natural gas was the largest energy source for the 4 trillion kilowatthours of electricity generated in the United States.”

Lol....

[jcl]

Originally Posted by HHPJ

World wide, Electricity is mostly generated by nuclear energy and then natural gas and fossil fuel and coal are tied.

“Most of U.S. electricity is generated using fossil fuels. In 2016, natural gas was the largest energy source for the 4 trillion kilowatthours of electricity generated in the United States.”

Lol....

Even if the electricity is generated locally from natural gas, that is preferable to burning the same natural gas directly in the vehicle (let alone burning other less clean fossil fuels). That is because it is far easier to treat emissions at the power station than on every vehicle, especially as standards get tougher over time. You don't have to wait for the installed fleet to age out, for example.

But back here in BC, our electricity is largely generated by hydro electric, with a little wind and a very small amount of diesel in remote communities off the grid, including along the Cassiar Hwy to Alaska. In 2017, it was 98.4% clean energy. Just as one example of a benefit, think how much lower health care costs related to air pollution will be when we have more electric vehicles, compared to the current state. YMMV.

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by HHPJ

World wide, Electricity is mostly generated by nuclear energy and then natural gas and fossil fuel and coal are tied.

“Most of U.S. electricity is generated using fossil fuels. In 2016, natural gas was the largest energy source for the 4 trillion kilowatthours of electricity generated in the United States.”

Lol....

That may be the current situation, but the move to electric cars is occurring at the same time as renewable energy sources are becoming cheaper and more common. Ontario gets only 10% of its electricity from fossil fuels, in the form of natural gas. As energy storage solutions become more efficient and cheaper the need for natural gas generation will decline as it's mainly used now to provide flexibility in the supply of electricity.

[ohmman]

Originally Posted by jcl

Even if the electricity is generated locally from natural gas, that is preferable to burning the same natural gas directly in the vehicle (let alone burning other less clean fossil fuels). That is because it is far easier to treat emissions at the power station than on every vehicle, especially as standards get tougher over time. You don't have to wait for the installed fleet to age out, for example.

Yep. And it's been shown repeatedly that even a dirty source of electricity going into an EV is cleaner than most gas vehicles. Healthcare costs associated with vehicle emissions were estimated at about $3B for the year 2015 in California alone. Youth living near highways and freeways were significantly more likely to develop lifelong asthma in another study. There are plenty of reasons it's a better choice, but I think those who throw out the source of electricity argument aren't really interested in digging down. They're looking for a quick and easy dismissal so they can go about the status quo.

Others often decry lifecycle emissions, but those have been shown to be quite a bit lower as well. This map is from data collected in 2015. The grid is significantly cleaner at this point, so I am looking forward to an updated map from the UCS.

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicle...e-ev-emissions

[DavidsonOverlander]

Another article on electric cars.

This one states "the growing pool of funds earmarked for electric car and battery development by automakers around the world is nearing $100 billion."

Automakers confident in electric future, even if sales aren’t there yet

[Silvertwinkie]

As a rabid driver of a plug-in hybrid for the past 6 years, I can tell you that I absolutely love the car. I went plug-in hybrid because I don't want to sit for 30-45 minutes to get 80% range recovery adding to my trip time as I do take the plug-in hybrid on several 700+ mile trips per year. Having that ICE (internal combustion engine) avail to turn a generator (similar to how locomotives work) is a very great asset to have for folk not just driving around town.


That said, the technology as posted by the OP last year.... just isn't there yet for consumers and today, it's just only starting for commercial big rigs. Can you imagine with the tech as it is today trying to do a cross country trip towing and RV with a pure EV? You'd add many days to the trip in commute time alone.



The question really isn't can electricity be an effective tow vehicle, clearly it can as locomotives do this every day and soon 18 wheelers....the question really is when. There are a lot of variables like battery compositions, battery sizes, charging infrastructure, etc that will dictate when (not if) the growing EV revolution will take off. My guess is sometime within 10 years the costs will be justifiable at the consumer level and folks like me would gladly consider trading in my 10-11 mpg towing for an electric alternative.


Also, folks who say EVs are dirty are right in some case (not all). Keep in mind that an EV is the ONLY vehicle that will get cleaner over time as the grid continues to evolve. That cannot be said for internal combustion.

[Daquenzer]

My biggest “issues” with electric cars are the following:
1) Do we have trained people to fix them? Requires an entirely different set of skilled labor.
We already have a shortage of mechanics.
2). How fast do these charging stations work? Do I have to sit at a charging station for an hour? How is that practical?
3). Disposal of batteries? Cost of replacements?

I wonder if hydrogen powered vehicles are a better long run solution.

[SuperTrouper]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

18 . .
28?

Yup

https://www.energy.gov/articles/history-electric-car