When to go electric for a tow vehicle

[Glenritas]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Thanks, Glen, for the detailed report and photo of the Tesla charging station. Good to see two chargers per lane, but would there be room to leave a trailer hitched up and still charge the EV? Looks like this parking lot might not allow that -- would one lane of traffic be blocked by the TV or AS?

Thanks,

Peter

The whole week we were in Bandon I never saw a Tesla or one being charged when I went by.

One could pull up to the closest set in the foreground hooked up and not block anything.

This is in the Bandon shopping center at the north end of town.

[ohmman]

Originally Posted by Glenritas

The whole week we were in Bandon I never saw a Tesla or one being charged when I went by.



One could pull up to the closest set I the foreground hooked up and not block anything.



This is in the Bandon shopping center at the north end of town.

I charged there on our recent trip. Did not disconnect the trailer.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by TravlinMan

About one hundred years ago, grandpappy franklyfrank senior was arguin with grandpappy TravlinMan senior at the local saloon in Kansas City, Missouri about that crazy James Smathers and his fancy new electric typewriter. FFS was bangin his fist on the bar, yellin about how there ain't no way this absurd electric typewriter was gonna replace the analog ones that had been around for 100 years!!

'They're simply unreliable I tell you!!' -- grandpappy Frankly Frank Senior, 1914

Sent from the virtual keyboard of my Samsung Galaxy Note 5... instantly, from thousands of miles away.

Embrace the Technology!

[PKI]

Grandma had a buggy whip hanging on the wall. It was a kind of special model. Had a tobacco pipe built into the handle. She told the grand kids that Grandpa bought it cause it would never be obsolete. Even if everyone gave up their horses for cars, someone would still want to smoke a good pipe. Pat

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by TravlinMan

About one hundred years ago, grandpappy franklyfrank senior was arguin with grandpappy TravlinMan senior at the local saloon in Kansas City, Missouri about that crazy James Smathers and his fancy new electric typewriter. FFS was bangin his fist on the bar, yellin about how there ain't no way this absurd electric typewriter was gonna replace the analog ones that had been around for 100 years!!

'They're simply unreliable I tell you!!' -- grandpappy Frankly Frank Senior, 1914

Sent from the virtual keyboard of my Samsung Galaxy Note 5... instantly, from thousands of miles away.

Say no more!

Originally Posted by PKI

Grandma had a buggy whip hanging on the wall. It was a kind of special model. Had a tobacco pipe built into the handle. She told the grand kids that Grandpa bought it cause it would never be obsolete. Even if everyone gave up their horses for cars, someone would still want to smoke a good pipe. Pat

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

Embrace the Technology!

[Isuzusweet]

Just to add to the French, Dutch, German announcments of the impending doom of ICE cars......

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/uk-c...2040-1.4221944

It has been a heckofva ride for ICE from the first Merc's, Olds, T's and such, but now it's time to say good-bye.

Cheers
Tony

[jdalrymple]

Originally Posted by ohmman

Tesla originally partnered with outlet malls for their chargers. They added Holiday Inn Express, Best Western, and others afterwards. Fred Meyer hosts Superchargers in the Northwest, which has some similarities to WalMart.

The difference is that Tesla pays for the installation and energy. The venue just gives them a number of spaces.

Tesla has recently begun to purchase lots (most recently in Kettleman City, CA) to install 40 Superchargers, a lounge, bathrooms, etc. These more corporate charging plazas are new and will be interesting to watch.

* edit: I forgot that they also partnered with Ruby Tuesday.

Gee...car company owned charging stations installed to "help" owners of their cars.


Sounds like Mr. Musk is applying the knowledge he gained from his web based endeavors to sell niche cars.

Like drug dealers, the first trip is free.



Regards,


JD

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Just to add to the French, Dutch, German announcments of the impending doom of ICE cars......

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/uk-c...2040-1.4221944

It has been a heckofva ride for ICE from the first Merc's, Olds, T's and such, but now it's time to say good-bye.

Cheers
Tony

Let's see...2040 is 23 years from now...almost 1/4 of a century...hmmmm

[OTRA15]

Just noticed this Toyota Prius Prime benefit announced:

http://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/offers/toyota/

Back to the future!



FWIW

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

Let's see...2040 is 23 years from now...almost 1/4 of a century...hmmmm

Agreed. But that is the date for the last one sold, and automakers are not likely to continue investing as much in new vehicle development costs if there is an approaching sunset date. That will slow the delopement of ICE vehicles, and accelerate the development of alternatives.

Add to that the road restrictions mentioned as coming soon in the same article.

Originally Posted by from link

Gove also said the government would make 200 million pounds ($326 million Cdn) available to local authorities soon for schemes to restrict diesel vehicles' access to polluted roads.

Gove said he favoured road-by-road restrictions for diesel vehicles rather than outright bans from town centres or costly vehicle scrappage schemes, but did not rule them out entirely if they were local authorities' preferred options.

This doesn't imply that ICEs are done with today. But it clearly signals that the day is coming.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Dude you can't be real. I'm not an EV enthusiast, don't own one now, but I actually had a couple years driving one. You? I'm guessing an Oldsmobile in the garage. I have an F350 and a couple flathead Fords in my garage. American flag flies every day at my house. Got the picture?

Look at percentage of CARS produced with Diesel engines, compare to EVs. I'm not talking retirees pulling Airstreams, I agree an EV is not suited for towing. Stick to the facts, leave the politics and anger out of it.

Dude you are the one with the anger issues and the insults.
When someone suggests that within 13 years or so, all diesel engine driven vehicles will be replaced by EV vehicles can't not be taken verypossibly be taken very seriously.
It is one thing to embrace new technologie and use it however it is an entirely different matter not to acknowledge it's short comings. That is simply being willfully ignorant. Than to take it the next level and defend the indefensible is down right childish.
Both France and England are contemplating a complete ban on ICE vehicles by 2040. That is in 13 years. It is a physically and financially impossible task. Yet they are passing the law. What are they smoking, where are the adults in those countries.
The lead acid batteries been around since the late 1890 without much improvemnt. Basically a dead end technologies. Thomas Edison threw his creative mind and fortune behind creating a useful EV only to abandon it. The current craze in lithium batteries also has major drawbacks. Install them in your Airstream but better make sure they don't freeze. The Prius has been around since 1997 and only because the market is being subsidized even today. Tesla needed to kick of with a 100 K machine to be able to produce somewhat of a usable EV. However until he comes up with the Model T equivalent of an EV Tesla wont survive either. Non of this sounds very practical or sensible to me.
As to what's in my garage, a big honking F-250 with the newest Diesel a BMW and a Grand Cherokee.
I came to the US at age 16 not speaking a word of English. In time I built an Infrastructure construction business with 75 employees and millions of dollars worth of sophisticated construction equipment engaged primarily in governmental and municipal projects. I turned it over to my sons five years ago when I retired. BTW I also speak three languages.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

. . .
. . . Both France and England are contemplating a complete ban on ICE vehicles by 2040. That is in 13 years. . . .

Hmmmm, that is actually 23 years . . .



Why is everyone quibbling about the timing of the death of the internal combustion engine, and our reliance on oil, coal, and petroleum by-products?

There may be legitimate questions about "when" -- but the question of "if" is a foregone conclusion, isn't it?

Sooner or later petroleum-based consumption will have to end.

Why get all worked up about "when?"

[jcl]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

When someone suggests that within 13 years or so, all diesel engine driven vehicles will be replaced by EV vehicles can't not be taken verypossibly be taken very seriously.
It is one thing to embrace new technologie and use it however it is an entirely different matter not to acknowledge it's short comings. That is simply being willfully ignorant. Than to take it the next level and defend the indefensible is down right childish.
Both France and England are contemplating a complete ban on ICE vehicles by 2040. That is in 13 years. It is a physically and financially impossible task. Yet they are passing the law. What are they smoking, where are the adults in those countries.

1) 23 years, not 13
2) It doesn't refer to all diesel driven vehicles, it refers to diesel powered passenger vehicles in some locations, ICE powered passenger vehicles in other locations
3) It doesn't refer to a ban on ICE vehicles, it refers to a ban on sales of new ICE vehicles. There will still be ICE vehicles on the road, although we could expect taxes and levies to make them significantly more expensive to operate, and thus less attractive

Agree with OTRA15. It isn't a question of if, just when.

For those buying a new ICE vehicle, this all doesn't matter much, except in the case of the expected useful life of the vehicle they are buying. The sooner the shift happens, the shorter the economic life of the asset using older technology. Hence the thread title.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by jdalrymple

Gee...car company owned charging stations installed to "help" owners of their cars.

Sounds like Mr. Musk is applying the knowledge he gained from his web based endeavors to sell niche cars.

Like drug dealers, the first trip is free.

The retailers talk about the benefits of having vehicle charging stations. They mention attracting customers (with a customer profile, at the moment, weighted to those with more disposable income, ie the sorts of customers they want to stop by their store) but more importantly, incenting those potential customers to stay longer at their establishment. They call it a win-win.

The comparison to free drug samples seems a little far fetched.

[ohmman]

Originally Posted by jcl

The retailers talk about the benefits of having vehicle charging stations. They mention attracting customers (with a customer profile, at the moment, weighted to those with more disposable income, ie the sorts of customers they want to stop by their store) but more importantly, incenting those potential customers to stay longer at their establishment. They call it a win-win.

The comparison to free drug samples seems a little far fetched.

No doubt. Supercharging is free for the life of both of my cars per my purchase agreement. Additionally, the current text on Tesla's website says that I'll have unlimited free Supercharging for any future Tesla purchase due to my early S and X purchases. That said, the value is really pretty limited unless I decide to stay on the road most of the time. It's not worth a $5 savings for me to go sit 30 minutes at a Supercharger vs. having the car charge in my garage.

Tesla writes down Superchargers as a marketing expense. I think that's a reasonable way to look at it. Many people wouldn't buy an EV without a cross country fast charging network. Tesla has also offered to open the Supercharger network to other manufacturers, but so far nobody has taken them up on the offer. I mean, would BMW want their owners plugging in to stalls that say "Tesla," alongside a majority of other branded EVs? I don't really know the answer to that, but I'd guess not.

Meanwhile, Nissan and BMW have partnered with EVgo for free unlimited DC fast charging (CHAdeMO). So Tesla's not unique on this front.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by ohmman

. . .
. . . Meanwhile, Nissan and BMW have partnered with EVgo for free unlimited DC fast charging (CHAdeMO). So Tesla's not unique on this front.

And Toyota with ChargePoint per Post #209?

[ohmman]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

And Toyota with ChargePoint per Post #209?

Yes. Also VW https://electrek.co/2017/02/08/vw-el...te-settlement/ as part of the diesel cheat settlement.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

And Toyota with ChargePoint per Post #209?

But Toyota caps that offer at 100 days or $100 of charging, it isn't unlimited.

[ohmman]

Originally Posted by jcl

But Toyota caps that offer at 100 days or $100 of charging, it isn't unlimited.

Ah, sorry. I'm conflating free charging with manufacturer-provided charging.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by ohmman

Tesla writes down Superchargers as a marketing expense. I think that's a reasonable way to look at it.

While some may see this as giving away crack, it seems to me to be exactly the same approach as the "free" maintenance service BMW included on my last six new BMW vehicles. Of course it wasn't free, it was costed into the purchase price of the vehicle by the BMW marketing organization in each region.