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Old 07-24-2017, 12:37 PM   #181
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Roof top solar (5k net system) is what provides my Kia Soul EV and my house the extra power to offset the Kia and still reduce the house consumption.

That said, The Kia came along at the end of October several years after I installed solar .
It didn't seem to impact my power bill during the winter and spring .

Now that I've been running a/c (2 units for the house and garage) during the Redding heat , the solar still reduces the power bill but that was the point of installing it.
I won't know until after the next bill how much running the a/c in the Kia will effect the power bill.
The a/c reduces the range 4 miles just by turning it on. In practice without a/c my trips reduce the range from 99 miles to 83 miles , with a/c it goes from 95 mile to 76 miles remaining . I plug it in when it get back and the solar charges it.

The beauty of solar is it charges all day and 'runs back' the meter all year thus year after year it reduces my power bill to nothing during the winter spring and fall and reduces the summer bill plus I get to power my daily driving.

Hmm ... ya know since driving the EV I have never had to stop for gas , ever.

OK I know the Kia not going to tow anything, but what I save on gas all year I can put in the Tundra when I need to tow

Gee, when I'm out and about towing the Airstream I'm not running the Kai or the house and garage a/c and all that summer solar is saving me even more money that can be spent on travel.

About towing 12,000 -14,000 pound trailers , the rv industry will have to reduce the weight and keep the sizes people want by changing the materials and design of trailers in the future
thus reducing the power necessary to move the rig.
Electric Tow Vehicles will improve very fast .

That said , I get a charge out of this thread

This is in Bandon ,OR on U.S. highway 101
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Old 07-24-2017, 12:48 PM   #182
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Electric cars also get cleaner with the grid. An ICE generally doesn't improve without major changes.
I think this point is key and is worth expanding on. Electric cars get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner.

An internal combustion engine generally gets dirtier through its useful life, as things wear. A new vehicle is an intention to emit xx tons of whatever over the vehicle life.

An EV benefits from improvements to the electrical grid as those improvements come along. And it doesn't take improvements in every vehicle, just in the generating source. Whatever an EV is assigned as emissions today (based on how the power was generated, what mix of generating sources), it is likely to be cleaner several years from now.

Interesting to read about all the solar in this thread. Solar has limited application where I live (further north), but also it is tough to get a payback here as we have relatively low electricity rates, primarily due to all the large scale hydro generation. We have some opportunities with wind and geothermal. Our provincial utility reports that their generation is 93% clean energy, but that doesn't take into account the flooding of river valleys to create reservoirs.
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Old 07-24-2017, 01:16 PM   #183
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. . .
This is in Bandon ,OR on U.S. highway 101
Thanks, Glen, for the detailed report and photo of the Tesla charging station. Good to see two chargers per lane, but would there be room to leave a trailer hitched up and still charge the EV? Looks like this parking lot might not allow that -- would one lane of traffic be blocked by the TV or AS?

Thanks,

Peter
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:17 AM   #184
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Ohmman,

Thanks for stepping onto the soapbox occasionally. I appreciate your habit of revealing the sources of the information you throw at us. Too many folks don't do that. They just seem to reach back and pull stuff out of their ***.

Richard
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:28 AM   #185
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Here's a thought....a few post ago I chatted about the benefits of powering the trailer through the batteries/generator on the vehicle; but what if we used a combination of solar (built the top of the trailer/TV with cells) and had a fairly big lithium battery pack in the trailer (with regenerative braking on the trailer as well) to increase the range of the TV.

If I offered a trailer/TV combo that could get 450 miles between charges and recharge completely overnight through generator/solar, or better yet shore power; how many would think about switching then?

An AS "Solarstream" maybe?

Cheers
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:00 AM   #186
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If Airstream would put significant lithium battery power between the frame's outer structural members and above the axles, there is almost no limit to how far the concept could go. Overnight shore power could charge up both the EV tow vehicle and the AS, for a combined reserve of electrical power which could operate as one multi-cell battery bank. Only need some heavy gauge cables to connect everything.

500 mile range for the combined rig? How about 1,000?

Give us a stick long enough, and a place to rest it, and we shall move the world!

Dream big . . .


......
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:48 PM   #187
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If Airstream would put significant lithium battery power between the frame's outer structural members and above the axles, there is almost no limit to how far the concept could go. Overnight shore power could charge up both the EV tow vehicle and the AS, for a combined reserve of electrical power which could operate as one multi-cell battery bank. Only need some heavy gauge cables to connect everything.

500 mile range for the combined rig? How about 1,000?

Give us a stick long enough, and a place to rest it, and we shall move the world!

Dream big . . .


......
Sounds like a whole lot of dreamin and no Air streaming to me.
At the end of all of this EV wet dreams 99.999 percent of us get into our ICE vehicles and continue " destroying our environment with gusto" .
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:56 PM   #188
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Sounds like a whole lot of dreamin and no Air streaming to me.
At the end of all of this EV wet dreams 99.999 percent of us get into our ICE vehicles and continue " destroying our environment with gusto" .
My goodness, do you feel better now?

Thank you for sharing.



PS -- The Argue Thread -- for outright arguing for no reason at all!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ead-60297.html
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:58 PM   #189
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In a couple years there will be as many electric cars on the road as there are diesels. I would say something has already "come of it".
With all due respect you must be smoking something mighty powerful.
If the entire worlds car production capacity would be turned into producing EV vehicles for the next two years It would be an impossible task.
Over 50% of the cars in Europe are diesels.
Your statement is one of many similar why I can't take any discussion seriously by EV enthusiast.
A whole lot of dreamin not a lot of common sense.
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:01 PM   #190
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My goodness, do you feel better now?

Thank you for sharing.



PS -- The Argue Thread for outright arguing for no reason at all!

link
Anyone with a modicum of common sense reading this thread will realize the overblown exaggerations and hype displayed. Complete disengagement from reality.
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:18 PM   #191
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With all due respect you must be smoking something mighty powerful.
If the entire worlds car production capacity would be turned into producing EV vehicles for the next two years It would be an impossible task.
Over 50% of the cars in Europe are diesels.
Your statement is one of many similar why I can't take any discussion seriously by EV enthusiast.
A whole lot of dreamin not a lot of common sense.
If you can't take the argument seriously.....then why are you here posting?

I take it seriously enough to listen to all points of view, even those different of my own and not discount them with unsubstantiated facts.

FYI, France, with the Paris accord is mandating a complete ban on ICE vehicles by 2040 if I recall.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...l-macron-volvo

The Netherlands has mooted a 2025 ban for diesel and petrol cars, and some federal states in Germany are keen on a 2030 phase-out.

Cheers
Tony
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:20 PM   #192
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Anyone with a modicum of common sense reading this thread will realize the overblown exaggerations and hype displayed. Complete disengagement from reality.
I have more common sense than most.

I have enough common sense to know that I don't know it all; so I need to respect those that know more than I.

Cheers
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:36 PM   #193
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Anyone with a modicum of common sense reading this thread will realize the overblown exaggerations and hype displayed. Complete disengagement from reality.


Must be hard being perfect . . .

I thought you had agreed to cease and desist with posts like this?

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Old 07-25-2017, 01:43 PM   #194
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Over 50% of the cars in Europe are diesels.
With market share for new diesel vehicles dropping every year. It peaked in the EU in 2011 and has since been in steady decline. And that is before recently announced diesel bans in major cities come into effect.

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Your statement is one of many similar why I can't take any discussion seriously by EV enthusiast.
Haters gonna hate.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:00 PM   #195
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Anyone with a modicum of common sense reading this thread will realize the overblown exaggerations and hype displayed. Complete disengagement from reality.
Reality is based in data and evidence. Some of us are trying to provide the data to support our argument. I have yet to see your data sources, but I look forward to seeing them in your next post. Without evidence, I'm sure you'll agree, the argument is pure dogma.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:37 PM   #196
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Reality is based in data and evidence. Some of us are trying to provide the data to support our argument. I have yet to see your data sources, but I look forward to seeing them in your next post. Without evidence, I'm sure you'll agree, the argument is pure dogma.
Given that private profit is involved, I might not put too much stock in "evidence". Either way. Far too many claims in medicine appear false, for example.

ICE have a century long head start. And scale matters. The costs are absorbed. A lowered death rate isn't necessarily sufficient to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Electric is and always will be more infrastructure dependent. A very long supply chain versus single-point refinement & distribution of petroleum. That's the ace in the hole.

Cities or metro areas may benefit by electric. But that's a tiny percentage geographically. Same as in 1915 when Ford & Edison put their minds to it. At that level, the source of electrical isn't very important.

Batteries have a very long way to go before they can match -- pound for pound -- the energy density and ease of transport of gasoline.

The tech has gotten better. So? It's still not impressive except for city use. Given pollution problems of urban density, that's its "natural" territory. Where subsidies might be justified.

All it does otherwise (at present) is to increase the cost of personal transportation without offsetting personal benefits.

.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:58 PM   #197
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Given that private profit is involved, I might not put too much stock in "evidence". Either way. Far too many claims in medicine appear false, for example.
Fair enough. Ohmman has been good at providing sources. I didn't provide a source for my last claim. Euro diesel sales figures, from the European Automobile Manufacturers, here:
http://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/ca...passenger-cars

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ICE have a century long head start. And scale matters. The costs are absorbed. A lowered death rate isn't necessarily sufficient to throw out the baby with the bath water.

In terms of how fast things can change, look at the Euro figures for Norway, at the above link. From a 2011 peak of 76% share of market for diesel passenger vehicles, the highest in the Euro 15, they reported 30% market share last year for diesel, the second lowest in the Euro 15. That is in 5 years. A pretty significant drop. And these figures are pretty reliable, as they are backed up by new vehicle registrations. Also noteworthy, this is in a country that produced 1.6 million barrels of oil last year.

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Electric is and always will be more infrastructure dependent. A very long supply chain versus single-point refinement & distribution of petroleum. That's the ace in the hole.
You mean grid electric, not distributed electric. Pretty short chain from rooftop solar to a vehicle in the driveway. By way of comparison, I don't know anyone refining petroleum at home.

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The tech has gotten better. So? It's still not impressive except for city use. Given pollution problems of urban density, that's its "natural" territory.
Given the early stage of EV adoption, I would say that progress to date has been impressive, including ohmman's towing experience. Also, read the experiences written up about the BMW X5 40e plug in hybrid. Better mileage than an equivalent diesel when towing, and vastly better when unhitched, as many tow vehicles often are. We are at the start of a steep curve. Change is coming, faster than many expect IMO.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:53 PM   #198
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What would make me buy an EV to tow my Airstream?

Ability to tow my 2008 Classic 25fb
Tow at 65mph for 300+ miles between charges
Be able to fully charge after 300 miles in 10 minutes
Be able to carry all my extra gear: inflatable kayaks and accessories, recliners, BBQ, propane tanks, tool chest, a portable solar panel, screen shelter, folding table, patio mat, etc.
Charging stations have to be as ubiquitous as current fuel stations today.
EVs must be competitively priced without subsidies.

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Old 07-25-2017, 06:10 PM   #199
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With all due respect you must be smoking something mighty powerful.
If the entire worlds car production capacity would be turned into producing EV vehicles for the next two years It would be an impossible task.
Over 50% of the cars in Europe are diesels.
Your statement is one of many similar why I can't take any discussion seriously by EV enthusiast.
A whole lot of dreamin not a lot of common sense.
Dude you can't be real. I'm not an EV enthusiast, don't own one now, but I actually had a couple years driving one. You? I'm guessing an Oldsmobile in the garage. I have an F350 and a couple flathead Fords in my garage. American flag flies every day at my house. Got the picture?

Look at percentage of CARS produced with Diesel engines, compare to EVs. I'm not talking retirees pulling Airstreams, I agree an EV is not suited for towing. Stick to the facts, leave the politics and anger out of it.
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Old 07-25-2017, 08:05 PM   #200
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About one hundred years ago, grandpappy franklyfrank senior was arguin with grandpappy TravlinMan senior at the local saloon in Kansas City, Missouri about that crazy James Smathers and his fancy new electric typewriter. FFS was bangin his fist on the bar, yellin about how there ain't no way this absurd electric typewriter was gonna replace the analog ones that had been around for 100 years!!

'They're simply unreliable I tell you!!' -- grandpappy Frankly Frank Senior, 1914

Sent from the virtual keyboard of my Samsung Galaxy Note 5... instantly, from thousands of miles away.
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