Weight savings

[TeddyK]

*my stated empty weight does not include propane or fresh water

** the 6200ish lbs total did not include 39 gal of water but did include full propane tanks

*** I suppose these upgrades and weight reduction will become a moot point when I do dexter lift kit as that “ruins everything, a sacrilege, changes the center of gravity, unnecessary unless climbing Mt Everest, decimates mpg…yada yada yada”

[TeddyK]

A lot of merit here, think there’re a learning curve for all of us regarding creature comforts. I’m full time got really good at wearing the same clothes every day just changing underwear �� I way overpacked initially, had boxes ready to ship from storage unit in Boston I was sure I’d want. I’ve since left little geo-caches behind at friends like most of my long sleeve shirts, sweaters, coats, extra blankets in suitcase I can easily have shipped in 5 days for $40 if needed. Friends/clients in Denver left my car there w pre packed boxes in trunk.

I agree w the sentiment you express often here. Some people reduce some look for ways to offset/distribute weight.

Usually the ladder indicates you have too much stuff

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

As correctly mentioned above, "stuff" tends to accumulate. If you are going to really sort things out, go through the process at the start of the winter. Then go through it again in the spring. You will find more stuff. If it didn't get used last year, why bring it? is one limit. If you go over to " didn't use it on the last trip ", even more goes out..... If there's two folks, did you use 4 chairs? .....

The "heavy hitters" in most trailers are the cabinets / furniture. Redo them with something lighter and you will take off a good chunk of weight. If that's still "in bounds", the plywood floor can be replaced with something lighter ( no, I can't imagine that being in bounds ....). Still, those are the big hitters and thus the big opportunities for weight reduction.

Spare tire is a big chunk of weight. There are roadside outfits that will show up and replace a tire. Is this something everybody would want to do? Probably not.

If there's never a need for > 10% water in the tank, do you need tanks at all? Pumps and pipes have weight. How often do you shower in the trailer? Again, this is headed into some pretty unique / not for everybody changes.

Lots and lots of choices .....

Bob

[TeddyK]

Thank you. I agree, to each their own but I learned the benefits of “travel light” from globe trotting.

I’ve an 84 34ft triple axle back home I’m slowly re-doing but long to get a 60’s down the road. I saw 2 beautiful restorations recently at a rally that were incredible. I’m hoping a silver lining to this economic downturn is to be able to attain one at a rational reasonable post pandemic price. Don’t need to steal or get amazing deal…just fair value for a feasible resto

Originally Posted by civeng99

That’s pretty darn awesome. Not sure when airstreams turned into such heavy land whales. My 60 something is about half the gross of a new similar sized unit.

[DrivingDan]

Originally Posted by jeffb831

I don't believe there is much efficiency to be gained by saving a few pounds on lightweight items.

In the EV world the consensus, from many road tests and experience, is that weight basically doesn’t matter, it’s all aero. For ICE vehicles the DOE and national labs have done studies with published results, while there is a difference in that you don’t get regen like EV’s do, IIRC weight is also not such an effect compared to aero (don’t take this as gospel, I’ve not found really hard data across vehicles on this, but I believe it to be accurate).

So basically yeah trying to save a few or hundreds of pounds will likely make little difference. Especially when you consider you have a what, say 4k vehicle and 5k trailer, what’s saving 100 lbs to 9k lbs? We’re talking orders of magnitude.

Makes no difference in the world, best thing would be to aero your vehicle or improve power train efficiency, but assuming you’re driving a gas car there’s little you can do there. We’re getting our trailer probably next year and the Silverado EV soon after, I’m not going to worry about the weight in my trailer at all (as long as it is within spec).

[Tim A.]

I recall several responses by Inland Andy years ago about testing the effects of trailer weight on fuel consumption by the towing vehicle. Just as DrivingDan has pointed out, Andy maintained that weight is much less important than frontal area and trailer shape.

When we first got our trailer 20 years ago, I was concerned with adding weight even though our tow vehicles had (and still have) no problem towing at 65 mph up any Interstate Highway grade.

Then I began to accumulate all kinds of tools and such in the trailer because of the needs of a trailer with increasing years and miles on it! Is that jack heavy? You bet, but sure is a lot easier to use than the one from the tow vehicle which I used after an accident.

Tim

[dznf0g]

#1 - If any of you have figured out how to move 1 ounce of weight without an energy input, please patent it and then share.

That said, will finding and removing 50#s of unneeded gear make a measurable difference in fuel economy? A measurable difference in power? No.

BUT, in my experience, if you don't scrutinize your trailer weight creep for several years, you might just find a couple hundred pounds of excess. I can certainly tell a difference in a full water tank (473#) when climbing. Transmission downshifts sooner...etc.

But more important is, where is that excess weight????

Trailers aren't exactly built with optimal storage space availability with an eye toward proper load balance. Most of my storage for larger items is in the extreme rear of the AS. Many of you have that space available at the extreme front. With many concerns about sway (rear compartment weight yaw inertia) or concerns about TW (front compartment weight), a regular analysis of unnecessary weight is a prudent thing to do. The longer the trailer, the more this is important (rear overhang and ball-to-axle distance).

It can also, if left neglected for a long time, affect tire loading...or at least your assumed assigned pressure.

And yes, every pound does require fuel and robs power.....but again, measurable or noticeable???

[Aironius]

I guess I should be glad that our Bambi is a 2001 model with lightweight material composing the furniture. It sounds like the newer models are loaded with ballast. I am always amused when I see "luxury" RVs with granite counter tops, etc. that add useless weight. We do try to keep weight to a minimum by not hauling unnecessary gear, and I suppose we could save some more with lithium batteries and deleting one propane tank. I could remove the unused TV antenna on the roof, as we have never contemplated a TV in the RV. But when I replaced the axle I went with one rated 200 lbs more than stock, so no worries. That little 19 ft trailer feels like one of those receiver totes that hold an ice chest behind the Expedition. Going up the mountain, I'm in the left lane leading the charge!

[WhereStream]

Originally Posted by Shiny16

I have 4 comfortable chairs that weigh a total of less then 6 pounds.

I'm looking for some good, lightweight chairs ... whatcha got?

[foobar]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

#1 - If any of you have figured out how to move 1 ounce of weight without an energy input, please patent it and then share.

That said, will finding and removing 50#s of unneeded gear make a measurable difference in fuel economy? A measurable difference in power? No.

BUT, in my experience, if you don't scrutinize your trailer weight creep for several years, you might just find a couple hundred pounds of excess. I can certainly tell a difference in a full water tank (473#) when climbing. Transmission downshifts sooner...etc.

But more important is, where is that excess weight????

Trailers aren't exactly built with optimal storage space availability with an eye toward proper load balance. Most of my storage for larger items is in the extreme rear of the AS. Many of you have that space available at the extreme front. With many concerns about sway (rear compartment weight yaw inertia) or concerns about TW (front compartment weight), a regular analysis of unnecessary weight is a prudent thing to do. The longer the trailer, the more this is important (rear overhang and ball-to-axle distance).

It can also, if left neglected for a long time, affect tire loading...or at least your assumed assigned pressure.

And yes, every pound does require fuel and robs power.....but again, measurable or noticeable???

dznf0g pretty much nailed the response I was about to type up.

As for fuel economy, let's say that you have an 8000lb trailer and manage to save 200 lbs through diligent effort on managing cargo. While this always a good idea, 200 lbs represents 2.5% or so of the trailer weight. The difference in tow vehicle fuel economy is not likely to be measureable.

At the risk of over simplifying, acceleration requires torque, but speed requires horsepower to push aside the air the is resisting your attempt to travel fast. On level ground at highway speeds, air resistance truly dominates. Weight might make a difference in fuel economy in extreme situations like only traveling up and down in the Rocky Mountains, but even in that situation, you need to be cutting 10% or more from your trailer weight to really make a noticeable improvement in fuel consumption (like maybe 1 or 2 mpg).

If there are any folks here who are or were long haul truckers, they will probably tell you that load weight will dominate fuel economy in stop and go traffic and aerodynamics (or the lack thereof) dominates fuel economy on level ground at highway speeds.

And, I would like to re-emphasize dznf0g's comments regarding load distribution or load balancing in your trailer. Please note his comments on this topic.

[civeng99]

Originally Posted by DrivingDan

In the EV world the consensus, from many road tests and experience, is that weight basically doesn’t matter, it’s all aero. For ICE vehicles the DOE and national labs have done studies with published results, while there is a difference in that you don’t get regen like EV’s do, IIRC weight is also not such an effect compared to aero (don’t take this as gospel, I’ve not found really hard data across vehicles on this, but I believe it to be accurate).

So basically yeah trying to save a few or hundreds of pounds will likely make little difference. Especially when you consider you have a what, say 4k vehicle and 5k trailer, what’s saving 100 lbs to 9k lbs? We’re talking orders of magnitude.

Makes no difference in the world, best thing would be to aero your vehicle or improve power train efficiency, but assuming you’re driving a gas car there’s little you can do there. We’re getting our trailer probably next year and the Silverado EV soon after, I’m not going to worry about the weight in my trailer at all (as long as it is within spec).

Weight doesn’t matter? Uh what? Then why put 20 more batteries in an Ev Truck bed for 1,000 miles of range.

[Shiny16]

Originally Posted by WhereStream

I'm looking for some good, lightweight chairs ... whatcha got?

2 are .. https://www.rei.com/product/164383/r...amp-boss-chair

And 2 are Helinbox

[Shiny16]

When I started the thread I was not referring to efficiency as purely just fuel savings. Many of the smaller units have a very low cargo capacity. Eliminating an unneeded propane tank could mean not having to leave the inflatable paddle board home.

[richard5933]

Weight matters. It takes a certain amount of energy to move a certain amount of mass a set distance.

An EV can recapture SOME of this energy through regen, but the more mass being moved the more energy is required.

If anyone questions this, strap a 50-lb rucksack on your back and go for a hike and see if it's just as easy as it is without the extra weight.

[jeffb831]

Originally Posted by richard5933

If anyone questions this, strap a 50-lb rucksack on your back and go for a hike and see if it's just as easy as it is without the extra weight.

A 50# rucksack is 25% more weight for a 200# person. We're only taking at most ~3% here (saving 200# on a 6000# trailer). Add a 6# rucksack on your back and you'd probably not even notice it.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by jeffb831

A 50# rucksack is 25% more weight for a 200# person. We're only taking at most ~3% here (saving 200# on a 6000# trailer). Add a 6# rucksack on your back and you'd probably not even notice it.

Just a matter of degrees of difference. The difference is there in both cases.

To say that an increase in weight requires no additional expenditure of energy is not accurate. Just because the increase is small doesn't mean it's not an increase.

[gator.bigfoot]

Like I said earlier I've found it doesn't make much difference. None that I can measure anyway. You might notice a substantial weight difference in braking and acceleration but not once it's up to speed. Aerodynamics and rolling resistance will be the number one difference. Get rid of all the stuff on the roof and you should see a difference. Change out the tires to a narrower one and you see a change. And get a more aerodynamic TV. But since I can't easily change these inputs towing with a full tank of water vs empty is about the only change I can make. And I've already tested this, it doesn't affect the fuel economy one bit.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

Like I said earlier I've found it doesn't make much difference. None that I can measure anyway. You might notice a substantial weight difference in braking and acceleration but not once it's up to speed. Aerodynamics and rolling resistance will be the number one difference. Get rid of all the stuff on the roof and you should see a difference. Change out the tires to a narrower one and you see a change. And get a more aerodynamic TV. But since I can't easily change these inputs towing with a full tank of water vs empty is about the only change I can make. And I've already tested this, it doesn't affect the fuel economy one bit.

Welllll, it does, just not measurably at speed on level ground. Uphill and accelerating it does. Physics be physics.

[TeddyK]

Principally correct when you remove principle factors of physics from this specific equation like inertia and momentum

Originally Posted by richard5933

Weight matters. It takes a certain amount of energy to move a certain amount of mass a set distance.

An EV can recapture SOME of this energy through regen, but the more mass being moved the more energy is required.

If anyone questions this, strap a 50-lb rucksack on your back and go for a hike and see if it's just as easy as it is without the extra weight.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by TeddyK

Principally correct when you remove principle factors of physics from this specific equation like inertia and momentum

In order to get momentum and inertia you've got to get the mass moving. There's no free lunch. The more mass, the more it takes to get it moving.

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Welllll, it does, just not measurably at speed on level ground. Uphill and accelerating it does. Physics be physics.

I've towed from coast to coast and across most states as well as eastern Canada. I used two different trailers. One trailer weighed in under 5000 pounds and the other is the same as yours. Fuel economy exactly the same. Not one bit of difference. I'm sure you can measure it somewhere just not in fuel economy.

This year I decided to slow down. Still above the speed limit just not as fast as other years. That makes the biggest difference. Driving on the 401 I got 14 liters per hundred. Heading up north it jumped to around 16. And then once I got into the steep climbs in the northern Ontario I was getting around 18. So overall this was the best I've ever done. Normally I didn't care so much but with fuel being what it is, I thought I'd experiment a bit. So speed is the biggest variable I think in the equation of fuel economy.