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Old 01-22-2025, 07:30 PM   #1
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Vehicle, not Towing

OK, hear me out. My wife and I are in our extreme 60s. We have a 25 Flying Cloud and tow with a large domestic 8 cylinder truck/SUV. (I'm not going to reveal the brand because I don't want to have to suffer through the "Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge vs. etc." debate. It's not relevant to my question.)

At this point, at our ages, we intend to continue towing and camping for some unpredictable number of years. However, speaking of unpredictable, that's what our tow vehicle has become. I can no longer rely on it to start wherever and whenever I need it to start. We've problem solved various electrical issues, and still other electrical issues arise. No point in cataloging them, because my appeal to you all results from my increasingly strong conviction that I'm rapidly reaching the point where I just need to recognize that the situation is untenable and get rid of it.

So, here's the question. Given our ages and an uncertain amount of time in front of us to continue towing (I'm not talking about dying--we're only in our late 60s!--but just about health issues that could arise to preempt it) ... I would like y'alls opinions on whether it makes sense for us at our ages to lease a tow vehicle?

I know that the received wisdom is that it's financially stupid to ever lease. But I've lived long enough to know that those rules have exceptions for particular use cases. I wonder if we've reached a point where the factors of our "use case" weigh in favor of leasing.

Please share your thoughts?
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Old 01-22-2025, 07:59 PM   #2
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My opinion, since you asked.

The fact that it's a tow vehicle has no bearing on the question. It's a financial question mostly.

What you need to evaluate is this--you need to get a new(er) vehicle.

For that vehicle what is your budget and cash flow situation.
What are any tax implications of owning vs leasing.
What would the residual buy-out look like at the end of the lease.
Would using the vehicle for towing use in any way fall outside of the terms of use of the lease. And/or make the turn in at the end of the lease be any kind of issue.

Do you expect to buy the vehicle at the end of the lease, or turn it in?

If you buy vs lease, will you likely continue to camp using this vehicle long enough that you will get to use it paid off for several years.
If you lease, will your number of miles make it a bad decision.

If you change your mind in a year, what's the downside of each way of obtaining the vehicle.

Generally, leasing is a better idea if the vehicle is for business use and a write-off expense.
Or if you don't drive a lot of miles,
or if you want a nicer vehicle for the comparable payment of buying.

Generally, buying is a better idea if you want to drive a lot of miles, if you will keep the vehicle once you pay it off, and if you don't have to worry about how you use the vehicle.
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Old 01-22-2025, 08:41 PM   #3
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Wish there was a like button! Piggy_Bank is spot on with the issues and questions.

To add to this....... I'm 69, in pretty good health, been losing some excess weight, and I have a smallish travel trailer and a 22 year old truck. I bought the truck in 2018 and it was quite low miles for the age, and I have been happy with it. RV'ing for me is a hobby, and I enjoy it, but am not willing to spend huge bundles of cash (or get tied into a lease) just to RV. The catch for me is, I'm a mechanic, and do all of the maintenance on my vehicles, so I know and trust them.

If you have something you no longer trust, and don't want to spend any more money on, it certainly needs replacing, but personally I would not want to get tied into a lease.

Everyone's financial situation is different and you need to consider all that Piggy_Bank asked.

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Old 01-22-2025, 10:20 PM   #4
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I don't believe in making payments on anything that I won't own at the end. I am never in favor of leasing.
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Old 01-22-2025, 10:37 PM   #5
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It's not financially stupid to lease, it's a value choice. I see so many people replacing their 3 to 5-year-old trucks with new ones. (These forums had tons of people telling me to just upgrade my 2021 F-150 to a larger truck even when it was only 6 months old.) At that point, if the restrictions of a lease (mileage, modifications, etc.) make sense for you, leasing is a more cost effective way to go. Regardless of the illusion of ownership benefits, you really only come out ahead if you keep a vehicle for a long time.

And there is an argument as well that with ever changing safety technology in cars, particularly as we experience the natural effects of aging (slowing reaction times, fewer light receptors in our eyes, etc.), having more modern technology may be worth the additional cost of leasing over keeping a car for 10+ years.

As usual, absolutes are worth questioning as they rarely hold up under scrutiny.

This YouTube channel produced by PBS is a more balanced summary of the pros and cons of leasing vs. owning and gets into some numbers. Spoiler, owning the same care for 9 years is way more cost effective than leasing for 9 years.

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Old 01-23-2025, 07:11 AM   #6
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I don’t know how many times you camp. If it’s only 2-4 weeks a year then maybe rent for your towing purposes if the rental agreement allows it.

Or, buy and Audi Q7 to tow your 25’ and still have a comfortable / reliable vehicle to drive in your post camping years
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Old 01-23-2025, 07:15 AM   #7
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One additional thing, that ties into the great concepts in HikingCamera's post.

Cost of insurance.

We were surprised to find that when we recently traded in a 2018 F250 Diesel Lariat, for a brand new 2024 F250 Platinum High Output Diesel with all the bells and whistles, that our insurance WENT DOWN!

Why-so many more safety features on the 2024. Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Keeping, Heads Up Display, More and better cameras for parking.
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Old 01-23-2025, 07:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belbein View Post
OK, hear me out. My wife and I are in our extreme 60s. We have a 25 Flying Cloud and tow with a large domestic 8 cylinder truck/SUV. (



So, here's the question. Given our ages and an uncertain amount of time in front of us to continue towing (I'm not talking about dying--we're only in our late 60s!--but just about health issues that could arise to preempt it) ... I would like y'alls opinions on whether it makes sense for us at our ages to lease a tow vehicle?

I know that the received wisdom is that it's financially stupid to ever lease
An F150 is too light weight of a frame for a 25 footer, or any other 1500 truck frame. That is my view on larger travel trailers, the end.

If I were ya'll I would have a 2500 Diesel, even one thats 5 years old but in good condition with good maintenance records. Theres no need to buy new. 50K gets you a real nice 2500 Diesel with 100K or so. You can put 500K on a diesel truck.

That truck will last you longer than you will be around to tow with. I would NOT lease. In many cases you can't tow with a lease vehicle and millage would always be a constant conern.


Good luck!
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Old 01-23-2025, 08:18 AM   #9
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If you choose a brand new vehicle, and for example only, make $500 monthly payment, your depreciation will be about the same. Any purchase or lease requires depreciation to be factored in. Some leases have a set residual amount. Leasing is like renting, in the end you own nothing. I have always purchased a used vehicle, in most cases from the owner. I let them take the initial high depreciation hit, and work out work out any "bugs". A 2 or 3 year old vehicle, well looked after and maintained, and "top end" is a better purchase, in my perspective. JMHO
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Old 01-23-2025, 09:42 AM   #10
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The video hikingcamera posted was excellent. I would never lease a new car for all of the reasons posted. If I could not afford to purchase I would look into getting a used car or truck. Some neighbors lease new cars about every other year. They are always top of the line with all sorts of features. Very nice to have and to drive but he owns his own business so I am sure he can write off a large part of the expense. Makes sense in a case like this.



No, you do not have to get anything larger than a half ton to tow your trailer unless you have an actual need to bring lots of heavy stuff along when you camp. I have been towing my 25FB since 2009 with my half ton without any issues, thank you.
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Old 01-23-2025, 11:25 AM   #11
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My observation is that most new or newish trucks are pretty reliable. I wouldn't let the experience with your current vehicle sour you on buying another new or fairly new. And certainly think Piggy Bank nailed it.
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Old 01-23-2025, 11:31 AM   #12
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First, is the tow vehicle also your daily driver and grocery getter? Mine is so a half ton is a lot more practical. (And I've towed my 26' across the country several times.)
I'm hoping my truck lasts forever, but if I were buying, I'd shop for a "Certified Used". Mine was, a 2015 with only 12K miles and looked new in every way. Still does. I got a better deal than "for sale by owner" or any in the Trader.com. It also came with a warranty.
Gone are the days of "haggling with the dealer". I tried, but was told with the internet, everyone is well informed as to prices. I knew what I was getting, the value, and I had a good experience.
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Old 01-23-2025, 12:03 PM   #13
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Leasing is simply an alternative form of financing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Instead of paying for vehicle in its entirety, you pay for the amount it depreciates over the lease term, and you pay interest on both the declining balance of the note and the entire residual value over the term.

For a private owner, leasing makes sense if:
1. You don't own vehicles long term, or don't plan to own long-term;
2. You can find a good deal with a high residual value or a low interest rate (every lease deal has an interest rate; in Canada, lease interest rates are shown up front, but it seems to be different in the US);
3. You are good with the mileage limits, which are generally very low these days unless you prepay the penalty for higher mileage;
4. You keep your vehicles in excellent condition.

You could look at different options such as prepaying upfront to reduce the interest cost and to not have a monthly payment. Used vehicles can be leased as well, but low residual values and a lack of manufacturer incentives (you'd be dealing with a private finance company) would probably result in payments that are similar to new.

A more cost-effective alternative might be to find a new or well-maintained used vehicle that would serve as both tow vehicle and long-term daily driver even if you stop towing the trailer.

In my case, I found a very low mileage 8 year old vehicle that we only use for towing and travel. It had 35,000 miles on it; we plan to use it for travel until it reaches about 120,000 miles, and then I expect to keep it for daily use. Our daily driving amounts to about 20,000 miles a year, so I prefer to run older and lower cost vehicles when close to home.
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Old 01-23-2025, 12:11 PM   #14
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Your $ / your choice

I'm nearly 80, with many tens of thousands of miles towing. I currently tow a 23' Safari with a F-150 (with 3.5 liter Ecoboost and max tow and max payload packages) - used to tow with a GMC 2500 diesel. I don't think your age or trailer or current tow vehicle have much to do with your decision. Mostly, it's just $.

BUT I will say that if you think you're gonna' give up trailering anytime soon, leasing may make more sense ... when the lease is up, you just hand them the keys and walk away.

The other scenario that (to me, maybe not to others) makes sense, is if you want to "try out" a vehicle that you're not too familiar with for a few years: at lease-end, you can decide whether you want to keep it or not, and if you buy it, you get a vehicle with a totally known operational and service history. I've only ever leased twice, bought the vehicles both times, and have been happy both times.

BTW, I can tell you that towing with a diesel is a whole different experience: bigger brakes, bigger trans cooler, bigger ring gears, bigger payload and tow capacity, and WAY better fuel mileage. (The best fuel mileage day I've ever had towing with the F-150, had worse fuel mileage than the worst day I ever had with the GMC diesel!). BUT the diesel makes for a pretty poor daily driver ... ride is pretty harsh when not loaded, and in-town fuel economy is not great.

So: if you plan to keep on doing this for a few years, I'd definitely plan on buying, and don't overlook the value to be had in a lightly used diesel tow vehicle, especially if it's not your daily driver when not towing.

Good luck!
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Old 01-23-2025, 01:03 PM   #15
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Gone are the days of "haggling with the dealer". I tried, but was told with the internet, everyone is well informed as to prices. .
It just depends on how good a haggler you are. We knocked about $10K off our latest 2024 F250 diesel.
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Old 01-23-2025, 02:33 PM   #16
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Thank you, all!

I very much appreciate your time in working through the factors. You've basically confirmed what I've always thought about leasing. I've -- like most of yall--- never leased,, but then I've never been 69 , either. At this time of life, I hope for (but can't reasonably expect , to be towing more than 15 years, and who knows how much less? Leasing does seem like one way to adjust the aging out risk, but as y'all point out, there are other negative risk factors.

Nevertheless, you 've given me very helpful opinions that have clarified some issues and options. If I decide I have to replace the vehicle, I'll do what I've always done by buying gently used or C P O not more than 1 year old on the non-dealaler equivalent. Meanwhile, I'm going to see if I can't get the intermittentlt recurring fault identified first. I have a goal of how much time and money I'm willing to spend on that snipe hunt, so I'll go down that road first and see where it takes me.

Thanks, all. I SOOOOOOO appreciate this community having my back.
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Old 01-23-2025, 07:59 PM   #17
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There is one more factor to consider, the availability of gas or diesel powered vehicles when the lease is up. With everything going electric and if that can fit your camping style.
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Old 01-24-2025, 04:51 PM   #18
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With everything going electric and if that can fit your camping style.
Thats not true at all. IF anything its going back the other way as electric vehicles are terrible tow vehicles and all the coercion to force people into electric vehicles they dont want has ended.
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Old 01-24-2025, 09:31 PM   #19
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There is a glut of trucks on the market right now, prices are low enough that leasing would cost a bundle in comparison.

For example, there is over a 500 day supply of RAM 2500's right now, thats nearly a year and a half of inventory (at current sales rates) sitting on lots.

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Old 01-30-2025, 11:54 AM   #20
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I'll just say it again for good measure: as usual, absolutes are worth questioning as they rarely hold up under scrutiny.
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