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Old 02-27-2019, 04:04 PM   #61
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Huntington Beach , California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirddoor View Post
Purchased an F-150 Ecoboost, max-tow, 4x4, Platinum. Just went out to check the payload sticker and was shocked to find that it was 1,411 lbs!
I posted this reply earlier on another somewhat related thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ml#post2214455

I guess my point was somewhat akin to the classic Patton line "... I read your book!" That is, once you figure out the player's game, it all makes perfect sense. IOW, the auto mfgs are going to sell exactly what the customers' want.

The issue only becomes a problem when buyers mistakenly think they're getting certain light duty features that will service their needs, but find out otherwise the hard way. That's why so many people who post here express surprise when the magic trick is revealed of why ride is better but payload lower.

However, caveat emptor still applies; it's everyone's duty to perform their own due diligence and make their own decisions. That's why I posted the crib cheat sheet. It should now be found by any cursory search, and perhaps a few people will appreciate the information all in one place. If they still go ahead and commit to a TV that will quickly be over-loaded, that's their choice.
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Old 02-27-2019, 04:11 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Thirddoor View Post
Hard to believe that Ford would encourage exceeding the GVWR of 7000 lbs.
Force them to take it back as a deposit on a properly equipped F150 with the heavy duty payload package (HDPP) and max tow options:

HDPP $1,500
Max tow $1,195

If HDPP is not available on Platinum, then take the extra price you paid and apply that to either the usual XLT or Lariat trim.

I would escalate this with management sooner than later. Just mention 'representations'. The dealer should be happy to flip a potentially serious pissed off customer into one that is happy & satisfied.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:18 PM   #63
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2016 25' Flying Cloud
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I have towed my 25' FB for three years with a 2014 Ford Expedition to include a 14,000 mile RT caravan to Alaska last year. I've had no problems whatsoever.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:22 PM   #64
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1999 25' Safari
White Bear Lake , Minnesota
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1999 Safari 25' and 2016 RAM Rebel

To add a a different element to this discussion, we purchased our 2016 RAM Rebel 1500 (5.7 Hemi) before we found our 1999 AS Safari 25'. The Rebel has the limited slip rear end and most importantly, it has the air suspension that auto-levels itself. After reading all the discussion on the importance of having a equalizer hitch, I went out to our local AS dealer to purchase one. The shop manager came out to look at my rig with our Safari hooked up and strongly recommended against purchasing a equalizer hitch. He stated that the RAM automatically levels the load and that we really wouldn't notice a difference, so we should save the money.

Right after this, we pulled our Safari out to the 2018 AS rally in Oregon and the TV pulled the Airstream with no issues (over 4K miles round trip) and through all kinds of weather, hills, and curves . The air suspension on the RAM is great for unhooking and hooking up - often I will have people come over and watch the truck lower to disengage the AS.

Just another option to consider.
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Old 02-27-2019, 08:11 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snerf View Post
Force them to take it back as a deposit on a properly equipped F150 with the heavy duty payload package (HDPP) and max tow options:

HDPP $1,500
Max tow $1,195

If HDPP is not available on Platinum, then take the extra price you paid and apply that to either the usual XLT or Lariat trim.

I would escalate this with management sooner than later. Just mention 'representations'. The dealer should be happy to flip a potentially serious pissed off customer into one that is happy & satisfied.
You would have to accept trade in value; once titled, it’s used. Or put on some air shocks and tow with it.
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Old 02-27-2019, 08:16 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photo Dog View Post
To add a a different element to this discussion, we purchased our 2016 RAM Rebel 1500 (5.7 Hemi) before we found our 1999 AS Safari 25'. The Rebel has the limited slip rear end and most importantly, it has the air suspension that auto-levels itself. After reading all the discussion on the importance of having a equalizer hitch, I went out to our local AS dealer to purchase one. The shop manager came out to look at my rig with our Safari hooked up and strongly recommended against purchasing a equalizer hitch. He stated that the RAM automatically levels the load and that we really wouldn't notice a difference, so we should save the money.

Right after this, we pulled our Safari out to the 2018 AS rally in Oregon and the TV pulled the Airstream with no issues (over 4K miles round trip) and through all kinds of weather, hills, and curves . The air suspension on the RAM is great for unhooking and hooking up - often I will have people come over and watch the truck lower to disengage the AS.

Just another option to consider.
Great story and I'm glad you find your vehicle stable. Yet it's anecdotal at best. My vehicle also has auto-leveling, with hydraulic suspension at all 4 corners that can lower 2", or raise 3". Sharing this only to say that "leveling" is not foreign to me. Please don't take my critique as an attack, rather as information that people should be aware of.

What many don't understand is that leveling, sway control, and weight distribution are different and separate things. Many times related together as most modern hitches address all things at once. But truly they are separate concerns.

I'd encourage others not to follow in your footsteps.

While your rig may be level, and you may find it sufficiently stable for the size of trailer you're towing... the truth is that you can have more margin of stability into higher speeds, and overall more safety, with a WD and anti-sway hitch.

Towing level is only part of the equation, with relatively lesser influence in ensuring stability.

WD hitches also return weight to the front axle. In your situation, you're towing somewhat compromised because regardless of the rear end leveling, your front axle has less influence and control over the rig. This is because the tongue weight of the trailer pushing down on the ball, has a teetering effect on the front axle, removing weight upon the front axle, and reducing steering stability and traction.

While WD increases control and stability, most WD hitches also impart some sway control by friction or geometry to dampen sway energy in a sway situation. Thus allowing for more stability than without.

A WD hitch is like insurance to ensure stability. Even if you find towing on the ball rather stable, I'd encourage you to invest in a minimal WD hitch. Something like an Anderson anti-sway hitch. It's going to be that one time, down hill, with cross winds, sudden braking, with too much weight at the rear of the trailer, that bites.
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Old 02-27-2019, 08:31 PM   #67
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FWIW.....

It is my experience that it is much more advisable to have a vehicle that is more than capable of handling your load....At the end of the day, a vehicle that is rated to haul 10,000 lbs. will haul 6000 lbs. for a hundred years with no issues at all..it is not stressing the tow vehicle at all....If your vehicle is rated at 7000 lbs and you are towing 6500 lbs., your vehicle will be maxed out, straining, and struggling to tow your load, and it will break down much sooner....Now if you plan to only keep your tv for a year or two, and get another one, then it is not as big an issue....but if you want to keep your rig for 7-8 years, then maxing it out with your load is not advisable. Just because a vehicle is capable of towing a load, does not mean you should do it.....being capable, and doing it long term are two very different things.
...there is a reason that folks buy heavy duty vehicles to do lots of towing.
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Old 02-27-2019, 09:28 PM   #68
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We have been towing our 25ft fb international for over 4 years in all kinds of terrain and all kinds of elevation changes with an 08 GMC 1500 6L max tow and if we were to change it would be to a GM family with the 6.2 and max tow. No question.
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Old 02-27-2019, 09:38 PM   #69
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That was a nice explanation. However it can be presented in even simpler terms.

There is an X, Y, and Z axis. Length and balance between 3-4 axles (WD) can be observed from the side view.

Height or Y axis is leveling and height of TV. Finally Z is from rear ie how much trailer sways off centerline.

A hitch has to manage both lengthwise balance via weight distribution, as well as back-forth sway.
TV has to have basic capacity to accept 10-15% of TT weight at tongue + passengers, gear and stuff. Both TT and TV need to be aero enough to shed side wind.

Solve the X Y Z forces acting on the combo and youre good to go. However if TV cannot even manage GVWR from the git go you need to go back to square 1.
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Old 02-28-2019, 08:46 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photo Dog View Post
To add a a different element to this discussion, we purchased our 2016 RAM Rebel 1500 (5.7 Hemi) before we found our 1999 AS Safari 25'. The Rebel has the limited slip rear end and most importantly, it has the air suspension that auto-levels itself. After reading all the discussion on the importance of having a equalizer hitch, I went out to our local AS dealer to purchase one. The shop manager came out to look at my rig with our Safari hooked up and strongly recommended against purchasing a equalizer hitch. He stated that the RAM automatically levels the load and that we really wouldn't notice a difference, so we should save the money.

Right after this, we pulled our Safari out to the 2018 AS rally in Oregon and the TV pulled the Airstream with no issues (over 4K miles round trip) and through all kinds of weather, hills, and curves . The air suspension on the RAM is great for unhooking and hooking up - often I will have people come over and watch the truck lower to disengage the AS.

Just another option to consider.
Level doesn’t stop the sway....if it ever happens...you may have a tough time stopping it......the equalizer bars do more that level your tv....do some more research...
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:04 AM   #71
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You might find the new 10 speed on the 2019 a pain in the ---. I traded up from a 2014, had towed from Denver to Salt Lake City and loved the performance and gas mileage. The new 2018 with 10 speed transmission is a pain. I have to lock out the top 4 gears to be able to tow as I did before. I thought the computer would be smart enough to stay out of 10th gear while towing, but it is always trying to max out gas mileage. I only have 12,000 miles on the new one , but would go back to the 2014 in a minute.
Good luck , enjoy the new rig.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:02 AM   #72
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If you want to get a good idea of F-150 actual payloads. Check this thread on the F150 forum. It contains an Excel spreadsheet that breaks down MY, trim, options, engine, etc with the yellow label payload for multiple MYs. Should give you a good idea of the end result if you order.
https://www.f150forum.com/f82/post-your-payload-332538/
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:39 AM   #73
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Minneapolis , Minnesota
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There will be a difference between a 23' and a wider 25' trailer. Either way, any 1500 pickup will do fine. We pull our 22' with a little Nissan Frontier and it works great! Just make sure your trailer brakes are working properly and have fun!
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:43 PM   #74
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I pull a 27FB and the stupidest thing I did was believe the people on the forums that I could pull this trailer with a 1/2 ton. Sure you can pull it every now and then but if you use it a lot eventually the truck will have major engine problems. So if you think you will later trade up to a larger trailer, buy the 3/4 ton now and save 45k on the 1/2 ton.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:14 PM   #75
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Save yourself $50-60k and find a decent used Excursion 7.3 diesel ($15-20k) or V10 (under $10k). You’ll be able to load it up with kayaks, tow and still have room for 7 when you leave the house.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:15 PM   #76
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Carlsbad , California
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I am also considering the move from a 19’ to a 25’ Airstream. I know this issue has been exhaustively discussed before, but here goes again.
I have a “fully loaded” F150 4x4 with the 3.5L EcoBoost and max trailer tow package. The sticker payload is only 1,551 lbs. Our minimal” payload includes 2 adults (<= 350 lbs), a generator (75 lbs) and claimed trailer hitch weight (837 lbs).
Without a weight distributing hitch: 1,551 - 350 - 75 - 837 = 289 lbs of remaining available payload.
With a weight distributing hitch, the math is done a bit differently:
F150 GCWR = 17,700 lbs
F150 GVWR = 7,000 lbs
Airstream GVWR = 7,300 lbs
F150 GCWR - F150 GVWR - Airstream GVWR - 350 - 75 - 837 = 2,138 lbs of remaining available payload.
I conclude that the F150 should be adequate for pulling the bigger camper. Any comments or corrections would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:32 PM   #77
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You are confusing Gross combined weight rating ( trailer weight and truck weight) with payload.
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:48 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WKPwildlife View Post
I am also considering the move from a 19’ to a 25’ Airstream. I know this issue has been exhaustively discussed before, but here goes again.
I have a “fully loaded” F150 4x4 with the 3.5L EcoBoost and max trailer tow package. The sticker payload is only 1,551 lbs. Our minimal” payload includes 2 adults (<= 350 lbs), a generator (75 lbs) and claimed trailer hitch weight (837 lbs).
Without a weight distributing hitch: 1,551 - 350 - 75 - 837 = 289 lbs of remaining available payload.
With a weight distributing hitch, the math is done a bit differently:
F150 GCWR = 17,700 lbs
F150 GVWR = 7,000 lbs
Airstream GVWR = 7,300 lbs
F150 GCWR - F150 GVWR - Airstream GVWR - 350 - 75 - 837 = 2,138 lbs of remaining available payload.
I conclude that the F150 should be adequate for pulling the bigger camper. Any comments or corrections would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
....short trips in state........ my friends in Frisco use a Chevy, 3/4 ton diesel....for their 30’ classic......MT. here..we have passes...31’ classic and a ram with cumalong.......1/2 ton is an oversized car.....
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:55 AM   #79
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I pull a 27FB and the stupidest thing I did was believe the people on the forums that I could pull this trailer with a 1/2 ton. Sure you can pull it every now and then but if you use it a lot eventually the truck will have major engine problems. So if you think you will later trade up to a larger trailer, buy the 3/4 ton now and save 45k on the 1/2 ton.
So let's talk about your specific 1/2 ton that let you down.

Sweeping generalizations don't help anyone. For every anecdotal story of failure, there's equally as many successes.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:11 AM   #80
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Have a 2017 F150 shortbed supercrew Ecoboost well equipped Lariate with 1,700 lbs payload. Does a great job towing my 27FB. Been to Alaska and back and all over the Western US, 20,000 towing miles so far. Gets 12.5 mph towing. CAT scale weights under the limits. Truck is a fine match to trailer.

Use tow/haul mode to get optimal shift points for power and performance when towing with 10 speed transmission.
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