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Old 02-27-2019, 10:31 AM   #41
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Davis , California
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After pulling my 27FB for 3 years with a 1/2 ton GMC, I would purchase 3/4 ton. I recently purchased Ram 2500 and it is not close. You can relax and enjoy the travels.
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Old 02-27-2019, 10:49 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailDude View Post
I am shopping for a TV for a future AS, most likely a 23 or 25FB. I find it hard to believe that a 25' AS could require a 3/4 Ton truck but my research is leaning me that way if you want a fully loaded high end TV. A review I found on a 2019 Ram 4x4 Limited stated that with all the upgrades on the truck the payload had been reduced to under 1200 pounds and that it was common to see on fully loaded 1/2 tons. If that is true and a 25' AS has an 800 plus pound tongue weight the truck would be maxed out after adding two adults. So if I want to haul kayaks, bikes, generator, firewood... I would be looking at a 3/4 ton which on the surface seems like overkill!! I figured if I ever went that large I would go diesel which really seems like overkill!

Appreciate your thoughts and experience with reduced payloads fully loaded 1/2 tons.

Thank You
25í. As a 1/2 ton would do just fine...
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:07 AM   #43
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Dodge Ram 1500

I have a 2016 Dodge Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4 crewcab with 3.55 rearend. I tow a 27 foot AS and can hardly tell its back there. It really tows better than the F-250 Ford diesel that I had when I first got it. I towed a fifth wheel with it. ( F-250). Ram rides much better and much quieter and handles better. If you buy new, whatever it is, be sure to get factory tow package, only way to go. I absolutely wouldn't buy a 3/4 ton truck to tow what you quoted.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:15 AM   #44
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I have towed our 25FB with a F-150 6 cylinder eco boost since 2012 over 40,000 miles no problems. We go to lake City Colorado each year and camp at 9100 ft. We have driven across the Canadian Rocky and the US Rocky over I-70 over 11,000 ft no problems. Question How many hours will you be driving a 3/4 ton truck without the trailer at a high rate of gas used? Our F-150 tow is rated at 9800 the trailer MAX is 8000 the way we load our is around 6500 to 7500 Buy what is best for your needs.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:34 AM   #45
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2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
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Airstream 25' Flying Cloud pull Vehicle

I pull my AS 25' with a Lincoln MKX powered by a 3.7L V6.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:42 AM   #46
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2012 23' FB International
Charlotte , NC
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Our GMC Canyon is perfect!

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Originally Posted by dchysan87 View Post
We have a 23'FB that we tow with a 2018 GMC Canyon & a good weight distribution hitch. The trailer tows fine with it and sometime we forget we have it behind us. It all depends on where you want to go and how much to haul. We try to take minimal amount of stuff.
Same here but a 2016 GMC Canyon (with tow package). Also a 23 FB. We bought it in CA and drove from NC to CA to pick it up (first rig). Never a problem... through the passes, up mountains, etc. Absolutely pulls like it isn't there. We checked weight, etc. before buying the Airstream and that is the reason we wanted a 23FB. Perfect combination! Also perfect to drive day-today! Enjoy your Airstream no matter what you decide to buy!!
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:42 AM   #47
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We have a 2016 Ford F-150 3.5 turbo I have pulled our 25-foot flying cloud over 8,000 Miles including through the Rockies with absolutely no problem whatsoever we're averaging between 10 and 12.5 miles per gallon in the tow mode when I weighed the entire system out fully loaded it was towing at 11600 gross for both trailer and truck the trailer itself was about 5900 to 6200
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:02 PM   #48
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Not so.

If you're willing to consider half tons other than Ram, you'll find plenty of choices from Ford and Chevy/GMC with sufficient payload.

I have a 2015 GMC SLT crew cab 4x4, which is rated payload of 1940 lbs. This has the 420 hp 6.2 liter gas V-8 engine, 8-speed tranny and the "max trailer tow" package. This is a fully loaded vehicle; about the only thing missing is adaptive cruise control.

This has pulled our FC 27 cross-country and back twice and including 8 months of full-timing in the West 2015-2016. The truck has been largely trouble-free (a door lock needed fixing) for 84,000 miles. Towing mpg ranges from 11-13 mpg. Empty mpg is from 20-23 as long as you avoid grocery-getting and so on.

Lot's of people on this form have a Diesel engine fixation, which I think is unjustified. Diesels have higher maintenance costs, cost more to buy, and diesel fuel is generally more expensive than all but premium gasoline. Today's gas engines develop plenty of torque at low rpms. Typically, I cruise at 60 mph in 7th gear, turning 1750 rpm and only the steepest of grades requires engine rpms over 3000. Understand, too, that diesel engines are heavy, which cuts into your payload. For example, the Nissan diesel 1/2 ton has a lower payload than my truck.

Honestly, if I just had to have a payload over 2,000 lbs., I'd consider a gasoline powered 3/4 ton. Both Ford and Chevy/GMC are introducing large displacement gasoline engines as standard equipment in their 3/4 ton trucks; and Ram now makes its 6.4 liter gas engine standard equipment in its 3/4 tons. It will take a lot of driving in the diesel for its fuel economy advantage to payback the $7,000+ price premium for the Diesel engine. As it is, my half ton gets the same fuel economy towing as folks report from their 3/4 ton diesels. The reason is that the 3/4 ton diesel truck itself weighs at least 1500 lbs. more than my truck. So, you're carrying all that extra weight when the truck is empty.

As for engine braking, the exhaust brake on the diesel is probably a little more effective than the engine braking of a gas engine. The cruise control on my truck will automatically downshift to maintain the set speed on a downhill, even to the point of spinning the engine at 4,000 rpm. I've never felt uncomfortable on downgrades, even as much as 10%. And your 25 is lighter than my 27.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:07 PM   #49
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I tow a 28' with an F150 ecoboost and Propride hitch. Does wonderfully. Great every day driver. When I retire I'll probably look at the new gas 3/4 tons only because I may need the payload for longer trips.

And honestly you should also look at the Ford Expedition XLT and not just a pickup.

And frankly your hitch set up will make the biggest difference towing when you have a capable TV. I'd spend some time researching that as well. And of course lots of opinions regarding that as well.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:21 PM   #50
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I put a Amazon smart TV with netflix - got it on amazon. I upgraded to a larger TV than what came in my 2019 22FB, I had a smart TV in my Basecamp Airstream and loved having cable, antenna, hotspot, mirror and wifi capabilities. As the owner of several gas and diesels I can say stay away for new diesels with DEF The sensors are a pain and if you run out of the highly polluting DEF the clock starts ticking to shut down. The Diesel DEF crystallizes and requires more attention than a leaky off gassing battery . If you are going to buy a diesel then make sure there is a Diesel DEF Delete kit for that vehicle before you buy it or that it is pre DEF. As for the size. Check out where you are going to camp. The smaller the camper the more likely you will get a spot on shorter notice. ( Big deal for some of the more select campgrounds). I love my camper 22FB because of the bathroom size and it fits in two end to end car spaces. With no slide out I get spaces at Disney and SC campgrounds easy!!
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:28 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upszeke View Post
I have a 2016 Dodge Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4 crewcab with 3.55 rearend. I tow a 27 foot AS and can hardly tell its back there. It really tows better than the F-250 Ford diesel that I had when I first got it. I towed a fifth wheel with it. ( F-250). Ram rides much better and much quieter and handles better. If you buy new, whatever it is, be sure to get factory tow package, only way to go. I absolutely wouldn't buy a 3/4 ton truck to tow what you quoted.
My 2017 EcoDiesel, 2WD Quad Cab, has a payload of 1640#. While it is a Tradesman, it is well equipped with power windows & door locks, power towing mirrors bed liner and chrome package. I wanted the Tradesman to keep the payload capacity higher.It tows my 6000# trailer very well. I also did not want a 3/4 ton as a daily driver. MPG has been fantastic! Around Phoenix, AZ 25+ MPG, highway as high as 34.5 MPG and towing the trailer around 14 MPG. Diesel is only about 10% more where I live and I do my own oil and filter changes. Costs about $80 to change oil, oil filter and fuel filter. Taking the trailer to California City, CA, ~500 miles one way, in two weeks so will have more data after that. It is everything I wanted in a truck and will be driving the wheels off of it before I buy a new one.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:44 PM   #52
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Lots of disinformation about diesels here, and more about Ram payloads. Do your own research on payloads, but look at the doorpost for actual payload for the particular unit you are considering.
DEF is a benefit to engine performance, fuel economy, and longevity. It allows manufacturers to omit or seriously reduce that awful Exhaust Gas Recirculation, which is a definite engine-killer. DEF also allows engineering for better everything - and the reason we see torque figures in the 900's today instead of the pre-DEF 400's.
Heck, my puny 3.0 liter diesel V6 gets 460 lb-ft! And a WHOLE lot more engine braking than a low-compression turbo gasser. Maintenance costs over 100,000 miles a bit lower than the gas equivalent. 15 - mid 20's mpg towing, 28 - 35 not towing (best 45 for a day at 60 mph).
Many SUV's have the payload of a lot of half-tons. If you need more payload, because of what you want to carry, get a 3/4 ton. Gasser if you want it - it will just shift a lot more than a diesel.
Check your capacities, and your choice of hitches and your setup will be the final determinant of your comfort behind the wheel.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:45 PM   #53
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I pull my 25ft AS fully loaded no problem with my 2016 Toyota Tundra with tow package, highly recomend a good tow package with stabilizer and anti sway bars, donít buy the one AS tries to sell you, you can find them way cheaper elsewhere.

As far as pulling goes my Tundra pulls it no problem.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:46 PM   #54
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Hey I tow my 68 overlander 26í. With a 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD. This is a diesel vehicle. Last summer I went from Calgary to Anaheim round trip. About 500km per 75Lts (like 20Gal) tank. The car can tow up to 7200lb. I was doing 60 to 70 mph with no issues. This is a great, tow vehicle. And can be used on the day to day chores. I use just equalizer bars in my tow hitch. Highly recommend it. When I had my 65 GT I remember going from Denver to Utah and that mountain crossing at 14000í had no effect in towing uphill the little AS. 60-70 mph.
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:31 PM   #55
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I have towed an Airstream for over 40 years. I have used many different tow vehicles, but the same trailer, (an old 26 footer that weighs in under 5000# loaded).

As for 1/2 vs 3/4 ton my question for you is how often and where do you intend to take your trailer?

If it is a just a few times a year and you stay in flat country the 1/2 ton will do you fine.

If you hope to use it more often, or to tow in/through the mountains you will really be much happier in the long run going with the 3/4 ton.

I currently have 3 tow vehicles. All are within manufacturer's guidelines for towing my trailer.

One is a classic car...it does OK locally on relatively flat lands. I don't trust it.

One is a 1/2 ton Suburban. it does OK, but you have to work the snot out of it...ie floor it to keep it up to speed on hills on the interstate...but it has room for the family.

The last one is a 3/4 ton GMC pickup set up to haul the max amount for a gas engine. This is the only tow vehicle that pulls it with confidence, at whatever speed I choose. It is overkill...set up to tow about 2x what my trailer weighs. It is also the only tow vehicle I have that is actually FUN to drive and the only tow vehicle that I intend to keep.

In the past I had a 3/4 ton Dodge with a Cummins. A pleasure being behind the wheel towing, just like the 3/4 ton GMC, just 50% better fuel milage.
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:47 PM   #56
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I'm just getting started with Airstreams and have a deposit down on a 25' FC FB.

Just purchased an F-150 Ecoboost, max-tow, 4x4, Platinum. Just went out to check the payload sticker and was shocked to find that it was 1,411 lbs!

It didn't even occur to me to check, having heard of plenty of forum members towing with the half-ton AND the sales guy's enthusiastic endorsement (I DID tell him exactly what we were planning to tow and carry).

Sadly, I didn't know what I didn't know.

My bad for assuming I would have no trouble with the trailer, of course the sales guy assured me (and continues to assure me) that it would do just fine.

The numbers just don't agree.
1k tongue weight (not confirmed, I don't have the unit in hand yet, but assumed from what I've gathered on this forum). Add hitch (100 lbs), 2 people (300 lbs), canopy (200 lbs) puts me 100 over max payload, without any cargo.
(Turns out, the Platinum options are HEAVY).

Sales guy says replace LT tires with E rated and I'm good to go.
The load for the stock tires (T113) is 2535 lbs.
E rates tires are 3,085 lbs.

It sounds unrealistic to think that changing tires bumps my payload another 550 lbs.

Hard to believe that Ford would encourage exceeding the GVWR of 7000 lbs.

Anyone else get the tire swap advice to fix low payload rating?
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Old 02-27-2019, 02:14 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailDude View Post
I am shopping for a TV for a future AS, most likely a 23 or 25FB. I find it hard to believe that a 25' AS could require a 3/4 Ton truck but my research is leaning me that way if you want a fully loaded high end TV. A review I found on a 2019 Ram 4x4 Limited stated that with all the upgrades on the truck the payload had been reduced to under 1200 pounds and that it was common to see on fully loaded 1/2 tons. If that is true and a 25' AS has an 800 plus pound tongue weight the truck would be maxed out after adding two adults. So if I want to haul kayaks, bikes, generator, firewood... I would be looking at a 3/4 ton which on the surface seems like overkill!! I figured if I ever went that large I would go diesel which really seems like overkill!

Appreciate your thoughts and experience with reduced payloads fully loaded 1/2 tons.

Thank You
. F150 eco boost. Case closed
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Old 02-27-2019, 02:18 PM   #58
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Bedford , Texas
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TrailDude, the one thing you are doing that I should have done more of is research. My hindsight is 20-20 and I wish I would have researched more. I won't go into details but DO NOT trust what sales people tell you.... period! For the gentler part of my back story, I had a 2006 Tundra 4.7L V8 and tow pkg. Oh sure the sales guy said, it will handle it just fine. We bought our 25' FC RQ and after two trips out, I realized the Tundra would not do well in mountains and long hauls, about 8-9 mpg at best and always struggling to find the right gear. We sold it and bought a 2017 F250 Diesel and haven't looked back. We now get 15 mpg in tow and payload is not a worry. I have the XLT and am loving it. Lots of diesel haters here but for service duty, diesel is hard to beat. And yes, I drive it in town and back and forth to Houston regularly, no tow and still get 22 mpg on freeway. Cost of ownership not that much different than gas. If I were in the market today, I might look at the new F250 7.3L gas but my diesel is powerful, quiet and rides great with better mpg all around than my 2006 Tundra. Would rather have overkill than underkill but believe me, you'll be glad you have the extra capacity. Good luck.
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Old 02-27-2019, 03:16 PM   #59
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I am towing a 2018 27' Flying Cloud with a 2018 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel and getting over 16 mpg towing. It's a good combination.
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Old 02-27-2019, 03:46 PM   #60
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Choosing a TV

This question comes up frequently. The answer is as varied as the vehicles you have to choose from. The answer is what fits you and your needs. Do yourself a favor and check out the website for : canamrv.ca. They are TV specialists. There are some great articles on towing as well as videos. We have purchased 2 AS through them. We currently have a 1998 34 ft excella pulled by a Dodge Caravan. We have a Hensley hitch that makes it work. With it we have traveled to Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Georgia, Virginia and other states in between. No issues in 30K miles. So you see there are always options.
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