TV for 25' AS

[Bobfrapples]

Buy more Truck than you need.
Situations change.
Last January we went to trade our young F150(making weird noises) in to get a Gas F250 to pull some kind of yet to be determined Airstream.
Fell in Love with the Mid Model F-250 Diesel and bought it after the impressive test drive.
Thought we were going to buy a 30 Foot Flying Cloud or a 27FB Globetrotter. Did not care for the Sales Schpiel of the local Airstream Dealer or the fact that they only had 1 Tech!
Bought a 2006 Safari 25 SE from Airstream Classifieds.
Pulls like it's not there. Makes lane changes like it's 1 Vehicle. (Reese System).
Not sure how long we'll have it but we only use the Ford for Trips so it saves us from buying a New Vehicle in 3-5 Years and we have a Like new Vehicle if we buy a bigger Airstream.

[Tomfeury]

I am wondering what the payload of the F150 diesel would be. Usually they payloads are LESS than gas due to heavier engines?

[uraljohn]

Have you considered a Nissan NV3500 Van? Very capable tow vehicle. Lots of power and cargo capacity. Rated to tow just under 9K LBS. All of the stuff you want to take with you is secure inside the van. This van comes with a bunch of seats that are removable and reconfigure nicely. Bikes and other such stuff fit easily inside. Couple of cargo racks and your kayaks are safely stowed on the roof. Best of all a top of the line loaded NV3500 is way less money than the insane prices a loaded 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup is going for these days. Check it out. No, I do not have a NV3500 but I do tow with a 2013 Ford E150 XLT Premium van. If the Ford dies, I will get a NV3500.

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by Tomfeury

I am wondering what the payload of the F150 diesel would be. Usually they payloads are LESS than gas due to heavier engines?

This F150 Lariat Diesel version has a 1469# payload: https://www.hannafords.ca/vehicles/2...sale_class=New

For comparison, this F150 gas with the Heavy Duty Payload Package has a 2559# payload: https://www.hannafords.ca/vehicles/2...sale_class=New

I saw a heavy duty payload F150 gas Supercrew with about a 2500# payload at this site before, but now it is gone.

My loaded F250 Platinum Diesel has a 2043# payload. Here's what my CAT scale tickets look like fully loaded and ready for camping: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post2205359 I need at least a 1700# payload capacity to stay below the "payload sticker" weight with my FC25FB fully loaded and ready to camp.

This F250 Lariat Diesel only has a 1982# payload: https://www.hannafords.ca/vehicles/2...sale_class=New This is why you need to look at the sticker on the actual vehicle. One would think that a Lariat with less options would have a higher payload than a loaded Platinum.

The www.HannaFords.ca site shows the payload on every Ford truck in their inventory. Very Nice!

[aftermath]

I think you need a 3/4 ton or at least a 1/2 ton that you can get an enhanced payload option. Almost any half ton has the power to pull a 25. The issue is the payload and since you have stated that you want to bring kayaks, bikes, generators and firewood, I think you won’t be happy with a standard half ton. I am on my second Tundra and have over 40K miles towing my 25fb. Plenty of truck to go up and over the passes, good brakes to stop it and with my Equalizer it is very stable. That said, I do travel light. Usually have a generator and some chairs in the bed. The bikes go on the back of the trailer and when I do bring extra water I don’t bring much. I have weighed mine a couple of times when set up for camping. Full water tank, two batteries, a spare tire and full propane tanks sitting on the tongue and you will be looking at something very close to 900lbs, even a tad over.

I do believe you will be better off with a heavier duty truck. If this is going to be your only vehicle you might want to look into the Ford Ecoboost option. I hear the get very good mileage when not towing and when towing have plenty of power. Good luck with your decision.

[The Twinkie]

Sure the 1/2 ton pickups pull.....but YOU WILL WISH YOU HAD A 3/4 TON WHEN YOU GET IN PICKLE and you will get into a pickle.
We pull ours with a 2018 3/4 Chevy w/ tow package.

[guskmg]

Manufacture's payload and trailer weight recommendations are great, but we all tend to load beyond that to some extent. If you are towing in the lower 48 and mostly flat land you can get away with a closer margin of these ratings. However, If you intend to go to Alaska, Northwest Canada, Labrador, or wilderness camping you need more reliable heavy duty equipment. I have seen 1/2 ton trucks broken down and delayed for parts and heard other being advised not to take them into the rougher country. It just isn't worth the risk to push or exceed your equipment limits. That is not fun in the long run.
guskmg

[lafla]

We went into this with both eyes open knowing that we wanted a significant margin of safety even if it was considered overkill. Ended up with a 2016 RAM 2500 6.7L Cummins Diesel 4X4 for our 25' Flying Cloud. No regrets as we get 14 mpg towing and have more than enough power for any situation.

[Bob662]

Lots of opinions in this thread, but the best advice is for you to call Andy Thomson at Can-Am RV. He's the true expert, having set up and tested all sorts of tow vehicles with all sizes of Airstreams.

Listen to what he says. You'll be glad you did. He'll bring clarity to this conversation.

[doctorlewis]

Another thing to consider is where will you be doing most of your travel. I go to the mountains every summer and I found out that the 1500 had problems with some of the "hills". So, I now use a 2500 and it takes to the mountains a lot better. But I guess I am luckier than some on this post because I do not use the 2500 as a daily driver - it is only used for towing the Airstream. Good luck with whatever you decide to get.

[sncnidaho]

Originally Posted by AirMiles

The www.HannaFords.ca site shows the payload on every Ford truck in their inventory. Very Nice!

No kiddin'? That's a GREAT idea. I wish all dealers would do that. Very helpful.

[Life is a Highway]

The max tow package and with “ The Factory Tow Mirrors “ most are not equipped with the Truck Towing mirrors.

Originally Posted by dnsapp

On the Ford F-150 with the total tow package. And that’s important. Don’t just look at the word Ford nor F-150. You need to see how the truck is built. You need the ECOBOOST with the 3.5 and you need the to order the 3.73 rear end. By purchasing the Ford with the aluminum body. That will shed 500 pounds upping your payload. Also unless you absolutely need a 4x4 get a two wheel drive with the locking rear end. That will shed another 400 lbs upping you payload on your truck. I have a 25 foot FB AS with about 1100 pounds TW. I have no problems towing. Make sure you get a good hitch system with a load leveler. I have the best Reese hitch. Can cruse across TX at 75 mph no problem. Don’t listen to a dealer that sells trucks. They like to try to sell you what they have on the lot. They don’t understand math. If you need help get in touch with me. My website safetyinstitute.com and find me on the second page of associates. Look at my one sheet on towing.

[Airhead59]

I tow a 2005 Safari 25 with a F150 Lariat Super Crew Cab 6.5' bed, 3.5L Ecoboost, tow package, 4x4. Plenty of power (12,000 towing capacity). I am able to live within the payload of 1485 lbs. Trailer tongue wt. is just over 700 lbs. I keep track of what I'm carrying in the truck, including WD hitch, tonneau cover, bikes, luggage, firewood, driver, passenger, grandson, etc. Don't think I could haul that plus kayaks, and a generator and stay within payload. Each of us must make our own decision what trade-offs we are willing to make, and then live safely within the limits of our vehicles.

[kpm]

Originally Posted by TrailDude

I am shopping for a TV for a future AS, most likely a 23 or 25FB. I find it hard to believe that a 25' AS could require a 3/4 Ton truck but my research is leaning me that way if you want a fully loaded high end TV. A review I found on a 2019 Ram 4x4 Limited stated that with all the upgrades on the truck the payload had been reduced to under 1200 pounds and that it was common to see on fully loaded 1/2 tons. If that is true and a 25' AS has an 800 plus pound tongue weight the truck would be maxed out after adding two adults. So if I want to haul kayaks, bikes, generator, firewood... I would be looking at a 3/4 ton which on the surface seems like overkill!! I figured if I ever went that large I would go diesel which really seems like overkill!

Appreciate your thoughts and experience with reduced payloads fully loaded 1/2 tons.

Thank You

I have heard that one of the most common upgrades is from a 23CB to a 25/27FB. The measured tongue weight on our loaded 2018 25FB is 1050 lb., more than 200 lb. over the published figure. It is difficult to find a 1/2 ton vehicle with payload that will haul that much together with people and even a small amount of other stuff. IMO it's not about the power, it's about the suspension and axles.

Discussion of diesel or gasser is a perennial favorite around here. Either will do the job for a light trailer such as an Airstream but everyone has a strong preference Keep in mind the diesel is a heavier engine and many diesel owners have gone to a 1 ton to get more payload.

[Life is a Highway]

I read the Ford diesel has less trailer towing capabilities and the 3.5 eco boost is the one for torque. I could be wrong.

Also that Diesel has a belt driven cam system not steel chain it is mounted on the back of the engine. There is no maintenance plan yet without pulling the engine.

[wnajera]

Hi. I am not an expert on TVs on but as a retired Aerospace engineer, I do understand stress and load capacities. We recently purchased a new FC 25RB and the listed weight characteristics are: Base wt – 5,600 lbs (with battery and LP), Max Wt -7,300 lbs (cargo capacity of 1,700 lbs), and Hitch wt – 835 lbs. Typically, the hitch weight is between 10%-15% of the towed weight. I assumed that the hitch weight is based upon the Max wt so 835 lbs is 11.43%. (I also assume that the tongue weight is linear to the towed weight). We average less than 700 lbs of cargo weight (some water in the tank, food, clothes, tools, camp gear, etc) so if our towed weight is 6,300 lbs (5,600 + 700), our tongue weight is 720 lbs. (6,300 @ 11.43%). I once spoke with an AS spokesperson at corporate and they said that the tongue is the same whether or not you have any cargo weight which I don’t believe based upon my work experience.

With regard to the number of passengers in the TV and any cargo you are carrying, this would factor in with the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle. I use a 2011 Nissan Titan Crew Cab (1/2 ton truck) fully loaded with factory installed tow package. My GVWR is 7,100 lbs and the curb weight is 5,038 lbs so I can carry 2,062 lbs in my TV (passengers, gas tank full, and cargo in the bed). The Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of my TV is 15,100 lbs so if I am running at 6000lbs for my TV (including cargo) and 6,300 lbs of towed weight, the combined weight of 12,300 lbs is well below my GCVW limit. I still can’t exceed my tow limit of 9,200 lbs and tongue weight of 920 lbs.
I chose this truck because the tow package includes a transmission cooler and a tow mode. Also, I do not have a 4-wheel drive which can add 300-400 lbs to the curb weight and slightly decrease your tow capacity.

I hope this helps.

[Snerf]

Originally Posted by TrailDude

I find it hard to believe that a 25' AS could require a 3/4 Ton truck but my research is leaning me that way if you want a fully loaded high end TV.

Yep, it took me a few days of research to finally come to the dawning realization that the 25' is the cross over length. Anything shorter, and you can get away with a 1/2 ton like a F150, especially if it has the HDPP.

However, anything 25' or longer, and you begin to move into 3/4 ton territory. That is, assuming you don't want to be carefully weighing and considering every single thing before a trip to make sure it's within/under payload and/or GVWR.

I come from the MH world - I have a class C - so I was already familiar with all the weight balancing, power requirement and road handling exercises we're presently going through.

One of the things I've been doing is taking photos of the actual GVWR and payload capacity stickers located in the driver's side door jamb on F series trucks. I put together this hand written note for anyone interested in seeing some summary information.

My choice is the F250 XL Supercab (Scab) 4x2 gas 8' box 164" wheelbase. My rationale is explained more fully here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post2213994

Edit: I saw that you have space for only one vehicle, and 3/4 ton might not fit. A few posters mentioned they have the F150 HDPP, which is what I would suggest for you. (We were actually on the fence, but decided on the F250 because we have two other cars for daily drivers.)

Since I'm such a nice and helpful guy, here's a link to the HDPP max tow F150 on Ford's configuration site I am/was considering. (Note that HDPP requires the XLT Super crew [4 dr] + 3.5 Eco boost and 6.5' bed for an overall wheelbase of 157".)

https://shop.ford.com/build/f150/#/c...RETAIL.XLT.%5D

I've got 4x2 selected that has a payload capacity of 2,625 lbs. The 4x4 option drops it to 2,450 lbs, still well beyond any conceivable 25' tongue weight/truck load. That is, unless you are also carrying 2 NFL linebackers + 50 gallons of water for desert boondocking. LOL

[Snerf]

If you go to 'next steps' and then search on inventory from the link above, you will see dealer prepped HDPP trucks are as rare as unicorns:

https://shop.ford.com/inventory/f150...Order=Distance

And I wouldn't necessarily trust the sales page either. You'd have to go the dealer and actually look at the payload capacity sticker in the driver's side door jamb. If it was, great, but realistically it seems everybody who has one just puts in a custom order.

[brooksjj]

A 25 comes with 2 23' TV's Also Ford F150 4X4 standard 1700lbs capacity heavy duty I think is around 2000lbs. I pull a 25EB with F150 Lariat 4X4 3.5 V6 375 HP, 470 FPT @1700 RPMs 10 speed with O problem.

[Ravenquest]

I have been towing lots of different trailers for 50 years including 8-10 RV trailers.
Most of my towing is in Wyo & Colo, up and down mountains. I have close to 100K on my 24' airstream.

I believe most ratings are whether the power of a truck will pull the load on the level, not the weight ratio between the truck and the trailer. My opinion is the weight ratio is much more important. So my advice is don't have the tail wagging the dog.I will not tow a trailer much heaver that the truck unless it is a goose neck or 5th wheel configuration. Used or new is your choice, I prefer used for a better deal.